Has the light finally gone on for Zay Jones?

[26CornerBlitz]

4 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

 

It's hard to tell because the camera is a little blurry/it happens pretty quickly, but are my eyes deceiving me or does Zay call for Barkley to throw it up high for him and then Barkley literally throws it so low that Zay has to dive to the ground to catch it?

 

I think Zay is just indicating that he's open. 

[BuffaLoko]

On 10/29/2018 at 9:15 PM, QBorBust2018 said:

Bills don’t have a QB. Good luck with that. Jones is a bust 

QBorB, seems like you are all about busts, besides your name, I find contradiction in your post, how can someone (WR) be deemed a bust if he doesn't have a decent QB to throw to him...? 

Edited November 12, 2018 by BuffaLoko

[26CornerBlitz]

 

 

[DCOrange]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I think Zay is just indicating that he's open. 

Definitely possible. Hard to tell if he's pointing up for a jump ball or just sticking his arm up to say he's open.

 

Regardless, this was by far the best Zay has ever looked

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[billieve420]

1 hour ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

He looks good. Hopefully we don't rest on our laurels and surround him with a couple of other good WR's in the Draft/FA this off season. 

 

I think he fits in good as the slot WR. Still need 2 outside WRs to complement. I would draft one high in the upcoming draft. The team is finally focusing on upgrading the speed at the WR position. It makes things easier for the QB when guys can get open in space. We were overloaded with possession WRs who had hard time getting separation. This makes things much more difficult on the QB when everything is being contested.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

44 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Wait is this the same guy that is supposedly the biggest Bills bust of all time?

yup

[Nick the Greek]

Coming into his own just in time for his rookie contract  to end so he can get paid in free agency. That’s the Buffalo way!

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Idandria said:

Coming into his own just in time for his rookie contract  to end so he can get paid in free agency. That’s the Buffalo way!

 

He has two more years after this season with the Bills on his rookie deal. 

[ctk232]

On 10/29/2018 at 8:20 PM, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Zay is and always has been a slot guy who needs to be used as a possession type receiver. When the Bills get a real outside wide receiver, Zay will only look better.

I'd say we're having exacerbated receiver by committee syndrome, but it's more like WR1 Deficiency...

 

KB and Zay are being forced into roles their talents aren't suited for. KB is misused as a WR1, Zay a 2, and Pryor at least doesn't give us too many formation penalties. If we can draft N'keal Harry or a similar WR1 talent, move KB to a hybrid receiving TE role, zay to the slot, and pryor/foster/whoever can fill out the 2's and depth of routes in various concepts. Having the 1 will allow KB to have those more favorable matchups where DB1's like Claiborne can't knock jump balls out of his hands when he brings them to the ground...Zay can finally get separation from nickelbacks and linebackers in mismatched sets and mesh concepts gouging teams for 10-15 yards if done right. And our WR1 can demand coverage and open the field for the rest of the roster. Watching N'keal Harry almost makes me want us to draft him over OL in the first for these reasons...but then there's the rest of the board thinking we're going to win the super bowl this year after beating the jets and sitting at 3-7 so maybe I'm the one getting ahead of myself...

Edited November 12, 2018 by ctk232

[JoPar_v2]

33 minutes ago, ctk232 said:

I'd say we're having exacerbated receiver by committee syndrome, but it's more like WR1 Deficiency...

 

KB and Zay are being forced into roles their talents aren't suited for. KB is misused as a WR1, Zay a 2, and Pryor at least doesn't give us too many formation penalties. If we can draft N'keal Harry or a similar WR1 talent, move KB to a hybrid receiving TE role, zay to the slot, and pryor/foster/whoever can fill out the 2's and depth of routes in various concepts. Having the 1 will allow KB to have those more favorable matchups where DB1's like Claiborne can't knock jump balls out of his hands when he brings them to the ground...Zay can finally get separation from nickelbacks and linebackers in mismatched sets and mesh concepts gouging teams for 10-15 yards if done right. And our WR1 can demand coverage and open the field for the rest of the roster. Watching N'keal Harry almost makes me want us to draft him over OL in the first for these reasons...but then there's the rest of the board thinking we're going to win the super bowl this year after beating the jets and sitting at 3-7 so maybe I'm the one getting ahead of myself...

Uh you want to bring Benjamin back??

[ctk232]

28 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Uh you want to bring Benjamin back??

Honestly I'm back and forth, but couldn't care either way. Given the amount of holes we have on our roster, though, you can't expect us to fill them all out in one year. At least not realistically. I know he's about to be an FA, and he hasn't contributed this year. But if he can be resigned for cheap on a one year prove it, or even two year with low cap repercussions, I'm all for giving our WR corps all the help it can get, even if it is KB. I wouldn't make it a priority, but I'd honestly rather have him than Pryor. I think we got the wool pulled over our eyes on that one as well. 

 

As for KB - he's a one-dimensional receiver being misused. His issue isn't his hands on the catch so much as it is protecting the ball through the catch. He could be very useful in 3rd down and red zone areas for those contested jump balls in more favorable matchups.

 

But looking ahead to the offseason, if he can be had for cheap, I don't feel like any other WR is worth the price we'd have to pay in FA outside of Funchess. And even if we somehow are able to land someone like N'Keal Harry in the first or second, who else is there to fill out the corps roster? Zay and then...Foster? Pryor? Ray Ray? McKenzie? Having a true 1 like Harry would be great, but all he would do is eat their DB1 and the rest of our corps would be just as worse off. We don't just need a WR1, we need a guy in addition to Zay to be able to contribute and give our developing QB some real options. If we land Funchess in FA then I'm more willing to part ways with Benjamin, but name another FA receiver worth the money we'd have to pay that would put us in an overall better situation.

[ndirish1978]

He will be a solid #3. We still need a #1 who can ball out and a reliable guy with speed. 

[JoPar_v2]

49 minutes ago, ctk232 said:

Honestly I'm back and forth, but couldn't care either way. Given the amount of holes we have on our roster, though, you can't expect us to fill them all out in one year. At least not realistically. I know he's about to be an FA, and he hasn't contributed this year. But if he can be resigned for cheap on a one year prove it, or even two year with low cap repercussions, I'm all for giving our WR corps all the help it can get, even if it is KB. I wouldn't make it a priority, but I'd honestly rather have him than Pryor. I think we got the wool pulled over our eyes on that one as well. 

 

As for KB - he's a one-dimensional receiver being misused. His issue isn't his hands on the catch so much as it is protecting the ball through the catch. He could be very useful in 3rd down and red zone areas for those contested jump balls in more favorable matchups.

 

But looking ahead to the offseason, if he can be had for cheap, I don't feel like any other WR is worth the price we'd have to pay in FA outside of Funchess. And even if we somehow are able to land someone like N'Keal Harry in the first or second, who else is there to fill out the corps roster? Zay and then...Foster? Pryor? Ray Ray? McKenzie? Having a true 1 like Harry would be great, but all he would do is eat their DB1 and the rest of our corps would be just as worse off. We don't just need a WR1, we need a guy in addition to Zay to be able to contribute and give our developing QB some real options. If we land Funchess in FA then I'm more willing to part ways with Benjamin, but name another FA receiver worth the money we'd have to pay that would put us in an overall better situation.

 

While KB may be being misused, and the QB play overall has been poor, those are not excuses for the effort level even casual fans are noticing on the field from this guy. 

 

Most everyone else on this bad team seems to not have a problem putting in their best efforts week after week. KB appears to think himself above that. Combine that with the catty nonsense he blurted out earlier this year about his former team and QB (who seem to be doing just fine without him) and sorry, I can’t agree with your take. Roll the dice and try to patch the WR corps’ holes next offseason, but Benjamin has to go. 

[ctk232]

25 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

 

While KB may be being misused, and the QB play overall has been poor, those are not excuses for the effort level even casual fans are noticing on the field from this guy. 

 

Most everyone else on this bad team seems to not have a problem putting in their best efforts week after week. KB appears to think himself above that. Combine that with the catty nonsense he blurted out earlier this year about his former team and QB (who seem to be doing just fine without him) and sorry, I can’t agree with your take. Roll the dice and try to patch the WR corps’ holes next offseason, but Benjamin has to go. 

I'm not blind to the lack of effort and would certainly be contributory to me not caring if he goes. And I'm not trying to make the case to keep him either - I don't think a one-dimensional WR is worth ~9mil in the least, which is the larger, other reason I'd let him walk. But I just don't see us adding enough depth at WR without overpaying in FA outside of Funchess (who is looking to stay it would seem), and a draft pick (hopefully Harry), that would let us feel the least bit comfortable saying to Allen that these are the options he has to work with...

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, ctk232 said:

Honestly I'm back and forth, but couldn't care either way. Given the amount of holes we have on our roster, though, you can't expect us to fill them all out in one year. At least not realistically. I know he's about to be an FA, and he hasn't contributed this year. But if he can be resigned for cheap on a one year prove it, or even two year with low cap repercussions, I'm all for giving our WR corps all the help it can get, even if it is KB. I wouldn't make it a priority, but I'd honestly rather have him than Pryor. I think we got the wool pulled over our eyes on that one as well. 

 

As for KB - he's a one-dimensional receiver being misused. His issue isn't his hands on the catch so much as it is protecting the ball through the catch. He could be very useful in 3rd down and red zone areas for those contested jump balls in more favorable matchups.

 

But looking ahead to the offseason, if he can be had for cheap, I don't feel like any other WR is worth the price we'd have to pay in FA outside of Funchess. And even if we somehow are able to land someone like N'Keal Harry in the first or second, who else is there to fill out the corps roster? Zay and then...Foster? Pryor? Ray Ray? McKenzie? Having a true 1 like Harry would be great, but all he would do is eat their DB1 and the rest of our corps would be just as worse off. We don't just need a WR1, we need a guy in addition to Zay to be able to contribute and give our developing QB some real options. If we land Funchess in FA then I'm more willing to part ways with Benjamin, but name another FA receiver worth the money we'd have to pay that would put us in an overall better situation.

How can you possibly be back and forth on KB

 

This has nothing to do with him being slated as a number 1 (Barkely actually stopped throwing to him) this is about a player that literally cannot use the few traits he has to make plays to EVEN BE ON THE FIELD

 

KB is a big large bodied high catch radius body who cannot make a contested catch.....like ever....forget the fact that he does not have the speed to get open and is a injury risk because of his knees

 

The bills should say thank you and have a nice rest of your career after the season.....draft receiver early and often guys who CAN get separation on the field and will make contested grabs

[JoPar_v2]

1 minute ago, ctk232 said:

I'm not blind to the lack of effort and would certainly be contributory to me not caring if he goes. And I'm not trying to make the case to keep him either - I don't think a one-dimensional WR is worth ~9mil in the least, which is the larger, other reason I'd let him walk. But I just don't see us adding enough depth at WR without overpaying in FA outside of Funchess (who is looking to stay it would seem), and a draft pick (hopefully Harry), that would let us feel the least bit comfortable saying to Allen that these are the options he has to work with...

Well we’ll see. I’ve seen enough of KB around these parts, but I was never a huge fan of him in the first place.

 

All aboard with drafting Harry. As far as “overpaying,” that’s simply based on perpective and I could care less if Beane subjectively overpays for a free agent WR if it turns into production. Ain’t my money, and they’ve enough of Terry’s to go out and do something. 

[KW95 - JA17]

KB ball in hands, KB drop ball...KB is being misused!

 

Cheers

[dave mcbride]

On 10/29/2018 at 11:26 PM, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

He's none of quick, fast, or explosive.  There is no suddenness to his game that threatens opposing defenses.  He has to win by scheme for the most part.  Not very impressive to me. 

He's a valuable asset if surrounded by more physically talented receivers. He's a good route runner and his hands are winning me over.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

He's a valuable asset if surrounded by more physically talented receivers. He's a good route runner and his hands are winning me over.

 

He's definitely a complementary player who has shown more of late. 

[ctk232]

1 minute ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Well we’ll see. I’ve seen enough of KB around these parts, but I was never a huge fan of him in the first place.

 

All aboard with drafting Harry. As far as “overpaying,” that’s simply based on perpective and I could care less if Beane subjectively overpays for a free agent WR if it turns into production. Ain’t my money, and they’ve enough of Terry’s to go out and do something. 

It's probably best to rephrase my concern by saying it's not so much losing KB as it is what else do we have to work with and in a year where we need to continue to build out the OL and have much more than one hole in the WR corps? 

 

But who's there to even overpay for in the first place? Beyond Funchess I can't agree with bringing in anyone and saying they'll be a positive contribution for the contract - which will matter when it comes time to pay our young talent.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[ctk232]

5 minutes ago, KW95 said:

KB ball in hands, KB drop ball...KB is being misused!

 

Cheers

Not arguing he's actually a WR1 and being misused. Far from it and I'd even argue he's being overpaid. But he would be useful in a role scenario where he can contest jump balls in favorable matchups - hence being misused. He can still be misused in either argument of whether he should be kept or dropped.

[dave mcbride]

4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

He's definitely a complementary player who has shown more of late. 

He has caught 18 of his last 25 targets (72 percent).

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I don't even think he is as good as Sterling Shepherd right now. Jones still has a lot of work to do. I think Shepherd is your average solid #2 WR. 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

He has caught 18 of his last 25 targets (72 percent).

 

Much improved and getting help by being schemed open.  You can tell he's smart and works hard to understand the offense.

[ctk232]

9 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

How can you possibly be back and forth on KB

 

This has nothing to do with him being slated as a number 1 (Barkely actually stopped throwing to him) this is about a player that literally cannot use the few traits he has to make plays to EVEN BE ON THE FIELD

 

KB is a big large bodied high catch radius body who cannot make a contested catch.....like ever....forget the fact that he does not have the speed to get open and is a injury risk because of his knees

 

The bills should say thank you and have a nice rest of your career after the season.....draft receiver early and often guys who CAN get separation on the field and will make contested grabs

I get you posted before I responded elsewhere in the thread, but without repeating too much - it's not that I want him to stay over anything else, and I don't think he's earned the right to stay either. All I'm saying is that I'm curious if he'd produce in a more role-specific spot on the roster given that the only WR worth paying for in FA is Funchess, and we can realistically add only one WR talent in the upcoming draft that could actually demand coverage in their rookie year.

 

Objectively speaking it's hard to argue as you would have to resign him after this year and he's already making 9mil/year. He wouldn't be worth resigning at that price, but if no other team wants him for that price either, could his use in a specific role outweigh the amount we'd overpay for another FA WR? Especially in this year's group.

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, ctk232 said:

I get you posted before I responded elsewhere in the thread, but without repeating too much - it's not that I want him to stay over anything else, and I don't think he's earned the right to stay either. All I'm saying is that I'm curious if he'd produce in a more role-specific spot on the roster given that the only WR worth paying for in FA is Funchess, and we can realistically add only one WR talent in the upcoming draft that could actually demand coverage in their rookie year.

 

Objectively speaking it's hard to argue as you would have to resign him after this year and he's already making 9mil/year. He wouldn't be worth resigning at that price, but if no other team wants him for that price either, could his use in a specific role outweigh the amount we'd overpay for another FA WR? Especially in this year's group.

Im just really down on him I guess.....if he acts this disinterested in a contract year how is he going to act when he gets paid?   I think (if I understand it correctly) that your worried about not having a number 1 because Zay Jones is not a number 1......my feeling on this is a high rookie WR pick would not do worse then KB and would probably do better.

 

To me a posession receiver that cannot catch contested balls is completely worthless......

[Ittakestime]

People need to stop with this complementary nonsense.  I thought people would stop using that word once Woods left and has been a big piece on Rams, but I guess it hasn't.

 

All the top offensive teams have multiple threats with different skill sets.  Jones will be a good WR with his skill set.  He will not be a complementary piece, he will be a part of the weapons group.

 

This 1,2,3, outside, slot naming crap is out of date. 

[ctk232]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Im just really down on him I guess.....if he acts this disinterested in a contract year how is he going to act when he gets paid?   I think (if I understand it correctly) that your worried about not having a number 1 because Zay Jones is not a number 1......my feeling on this is a high rookie WR pick would not do worse then KB and would probably do better.

 

To me a posession receiver that cannot catch contested balls is completely worthless......

I don't disagree, I see the lack of effort and performance and I too don't think he's worth 9mil or a roster spot on any team. But given the current state of our offense I'm wondering if there's an effective way to use him at all that would be worth resigning over other options out there. This is just one scenario where he could be utilized, but is entirely dependent on that roster having a set WR1 to demand coverage (something we desperately need and don't have), as well as other talent filling out the roster (like Zay, and Foster from yesterday - Pryor I think we were just too desperate but hope he gets his game back).

 

Beyond other measures, we are severely hurt by not having that WR1 and I would like to see this filled by N'Keal Harry in my ideal world. But given our OL demands as well, not sure the likelihood this happens. KB's issue isn't so much the catching as it is completing the catch - I know semantics. But should he have those more favorable matchups, maybe he comes down with those contested jump balls on key third downs and in the red zone. That only gives a raw, underdeveloped Allen all the more options to use without too much added risk. One could argue that especially with Allen, the only receivers you should be drafting are those with catch radii of over 5 feet until his accuracy improves...

 

It's all just curiosity but the most likely scenario is we don't resign him at the end of the year.

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, Ittakestime said:

People need to stop with this complementary nonsense.  I thought people would stop using that word once Woods left and has been a big piece on Rams, but I guess it hasn't.

 

All the top offensive teams have multiple threats with different skill sets.  Jones will be a good WR with his skill set.  He will not be a complementary piece, he will be a part of the weapons group.

 

This 1,2,3, outside, slot naming crap is out of date. 

 

It's only nonsense to those who don't understand what it means. 

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, ctk232 said:

I don't disagree, I see the lack of effort and performance and I too don't think he's worth 9mil or a roster spot on any team. But given the current state of our offense I'm wondering if there's an effective way to use him at all that would be worth resigning over other options out there. This is just one scenario where he could be utilized, but is entirely dependent on that roster having a set WR1 to demand coverage (something we desperately need and don't have), as well as other talent filling out the roster (like Zay, and Foster from yesterday - Pryor I think we were just too desperate but hope he gets his game back).

 

Beyond other measures, we are severely hurt by not having that WR1 and I would like to see this filled by N'Keal Harry in my ideal world. But given our OL demands as well, not sure the likelihood this happens. KB's issue isn't so much the catching as it is completing the catch - I know semantics. But should he have those more favorable matchups, maybe he comes down with those contested jump balls on key third downs and in the red zone. That only gives a raw, underdeveloped Allen all the more options to use without too much added risk. One could argue that especially with Allen, the only receivers you should be drafting are those with catch radii of over 5 feet until his accuracy improves...

 

It's all just curiosity but the most likely scenario is we don't resign him at the end of the year.

We are going to have to see how our draft position plays out.......I am also interested to see how the Dawkins/Teller side looks going forward

 

I initially thought (before yesterday) that the bills might not give Teller a chance and maybe Dawkins had to be moved to LG.....if Teller works out at LG and you keep Dawkins at LG.....now the problem areas are C and RG......we can get both of those in free agency

 

If we are still in the top 5 pick range......we can trade down in the first.....still take one of the better WR's......and address RG and C in the draft in later rounds....

[Ittakestime]

52 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

It's only nonsense to those who don't understand what it means. 

 

Sure thing buddy.

[ctk232]

45 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

We are going to have to see how our draft position plays out.......I am also interested to see how the Dawkins/Teller side looks going forward

 

I initially thought (before yesterday) that the bills might not give Teller a chance and maybe Dawkins had to be moved to LG.....if Teller works out at LG and you keep Dawkins at LG.....now the problem areas are C and RG......we can get both of those in free agency

 

If we are still in the top 5 pick range......we can trade down in the first.....still take one of the better WR's......and address RG and C in the draft in later rounds....

Funny you say that as that's how my ideal draft would go as well - however, I don't know if N'Keal will creep up draft boards in round 1 which would take him out of consideration of the trade back option. The other piece also being with a top 5 pick, and if they are there, can you for sure pass up on Oliver or Bosa? Even the hypothetical where they are off the board before we pick, do you still trade down if Little is there? Imagine drafting Little to be the franchise LT - swing Dawkins to guard with Teller, address C in FA, and RT in FA. Plan B is get a LG/RG in FA and swing Dawkins to RT but feel like he may be more wasted there.

 

Lot of ways this gets patched up in an ideal world - just wonder where this goes in actuality. 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

FLEX OFFENSE

Zay Jones, Buffalo Bills – 90.9 overall grade

Can you say Zay Jones breakout game? Jones caught eight passes for 93 yards and two scores in the win over the Jets, and the crazy thing is his performance would have been even better if not for a fumble on the edge of the end zone, which the Bills eventually recovered for a touchdown. Jones struggled with drops as a rookie, dropping five of 34 catchable passes, but so far in 2018, he has yet to drop any of the 37 catchable targets thrown his way.

[Mikey152]

Somebody earlier said Zay isn't fast/explosive/etc...

 

At the combine (which was just last year for him) he measured 6'2" and 201 pounds with a 4.45 40, 36.5 inch vertical, 133 inch broad jump and 4.01/11.17 shuttles.  Those were all top 12 times in his class, and some of them were top 3-5

 

For comparison, Sammy Watkins was 6'1" 211. 4.43, 34, 126, 4.34 and Julio Jones was 6'3" 220, 4.38, 38.5. 135. 4.23/11.07 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Mikey152 said:

Somebody earlier said Zay isn't fast/explosive/etc...

 

At the combine (which was just last year for him) he measured 6'2" and 201 pounds with a 4.45 40, 36.5 inch vertical, 133 inch broad jump and 4.01/11.17 shuttles.  Those were all top 12 times in his class, and some of them were top 3-5

 

For comparison, Sammy Watkins was 6'1" 211. 4.43, 34, 126, 4.34 and Julio Jones was 6'3" 220, 4.38, 38.5. 135. 4.23/11.07 

 

Does he look explosive in actual game play?  I could not care any less about combine skills in shorts.  What happens when the pads are on against the opposition in games that count?  

[Mikey152]

6 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Does he look explosive in actual game play?  I could not care any less about combine skills in shorts.  What happens when the pads are on against the opposition in games that count?  

 

Ah, so you prefer anecdotal to analytical...gotcha

 

The point is he is a good athlete, so if he is "playing slow" it's not because of his physical ability.  Personally, I think it's bs until somebody shows me the contrary.  He;s been able to get separation, even last year...he just has had problems dropping it or being targeted so far in his young career.  Jerry Rice had similar problems.  It happens to the best of them.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Mikey152

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Mikey152 said:

 

Ah, so you prefer anecdotal to analytical...gotcha

 

The point is he is a good athlete, so if he is "playing slow" it's not because of his physical ability.  Personally, I think it's bs until somebody shows me the contrary.  He;s been able to get separation, even last year...he just has had problems dropping it or being targeted so far in his young career.  Jerry Rice had similar problems.  It happens to the best of them.

 

Plenty of players test fast, but don't play fast and sometimes it's just the opposite.  What happens on the field in actual competition is all that matters.