The House of Saud at it again (Khashoggi disappearance)

[Benjamin Franklin]

Might be buried in another topic but I'm pulling it forward as I've not seen it. The US's pet (whether it's Obama's "bow" or Kushner's buddy MBS) Saudi Arabia may have Dexter-ed journalist Jamal Khashoggi. 

 

We don't have an ambassador in Turkey or Saudi Arabia. The CIA could issue a conclusion shortly. 

 

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. MBS denies any knowledge, which of course is crap, and he will have to change his tune shortly. Kushner has been pushing MBS as a US ally. Saudi Arabia is the first country Trump visited as POTUS. The Trump State Department approved a nearly 700M dollar arms deal to Saudi Arabia in March, so that's in the cauldron as well. 

 

The story is summed up well here. 

 

Developing.

[IDBillzFan]

I'm actually more surprised by your return than his disappearance.

[Deranged Rhino]

Trust Erdogan. What could go wrong? 

[GG]

10 minutes ago, LABillzFan said:

I'm actually more surprised by your return than his disappearance.

 

Coincidence?

[B-Man]

Ben is correct, there is a lot more to be uncovered here.

 

 

Unfortunately, our U.S. 'media' will probably toss out a few ridiculous takes...............like this:

 

Chris Hayes jumps ALL THE SHARKS with INSANE take on Saudis and Trump

 

You know the face you make when you sniff the milk because you’re not sure if it’s still good or not and you can tell by the smell it’s not? Yup, just made that face.

We know Chris Hayes has always been sort of out there for a long while but WTAF with this tweet?

 

Quote

 

Chris Hayes

✔@chrislhayes

 

Would be nice to definitively rule out that the Saudis are paying the president massive bribes in exchange for tacit approval for murdering critics!

11:01 PM - Oct 10, 2018

 

 

 

Did he really think implying the president would take bribes from the Saudis so they could murder his critics is even sane, let alone appropriate?

[Tiberius]

12 minutes ago, B-Man said:

Ben is correct, there is a lot more to be uncovered here.

 

 

Unfortunately, our U.S. 'media' will probably toss out a few ridiculous takes...............like this:

 

Chris Hayes jumps ALL THE SHARKS with INSANE take on Saudis and Trump

 

You know the face you make when you sniff the milk because you’re not sure if it’s still good or not and you can tell by the smell it’s not? Yup, just made that face.

We know Chris Hayes has always been sort of out there for a long while but WTAF with this tweet?

 

 

 

Did he really think implying the president would take bribes from the Saudis so they could murder his critics is even sane, let alone appropriate?

Journalist get killed, bash the media. No doubt what side the Trump bots are on 

[Deranged Rhino]

1 hour ago, B-Man said:

Ben is correct, there is a lot more to be uncovered here.

 

There is. 

 

But nothing will be accurately covered when it's covered in a vacuum without the benefit of context.

 

*100% of the information available on this issue comes from Erdogan's state run media at this point. Erdogan has shifted dramatically the past three years (as most know).

*The Mullahs are fighting for their lives, and the Saudis are their biggest threat (besides the US), and control a lot of western media.

*Israel and the Saudis are forging a close relationship (historic in its context) and that's pissed off a lot of the old guard inside Israeli intelligence - which might explain why Mossad's favorite journalists/outlets are pushing the story so hard. 

*MSB is also facing internal division inside his own house, extremists inside his own government want him gone and don't want him working with Israel at all.

 

Lots of pieces moving on this story. The best advise is to wait and see. Early judgments will undoubtedly be proven wrong... especially when they're based on analysis which doesn't factor in the bigger picture.  

Edited October 11, 2018 by Deranged Rhino

[DC Tom]

42 minutes ago, B-Man said:

Ben is correct, there is a lot more to be uncovered here.

 

 

Unfortunately, our U.S. 'media' will probably toss out a few ridiculous takes...............like this:

 

Chris Hayes jumps ALL THE SHARKS with INSANE take on Saudis and Trump

 

You know the face you make when you sniff the milk because you’re not sure if it’s still good or not and you can tell by the smell it’s not? Yup, just made that face.

We know Chris Hayes has always been sort of out there for a long while but WTAF with this tweet?

 

 

 

Did he really think implying the president would take bribes from the Saudis so they could murder his critics is even sane, let alone appropriate?

 

The administration has already asked, multiple times, for explanation and clarification.  The media is complaining the administration has been ignoring the issue...because the media hasn't seen a story about it in the media. 

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, DC Tom said:

 

The administration has already asked, multiple times, for explanation and clarification.  The media is complaining the administration has been ignoring the issue...because the media hasn't seen a story about it in the Turkish State media. 

 

FTFY  

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, DC Tom said:

 

The administration has already asked, multiple times, for explanation and clarification.  The media is complaining the administration has been ignoring the issue...because the media hasn't seen a story about it in the media. 

What nonsense. Such butt cleaning of Trump is disgusting. Trump has sent the signal to every thug dictator in the world that he admires them. No wonder they are so brazen in their attacks. They know the WH will only mumble something and hope everyone quickly forgets 

[DC Tom]

Just now, Deranged Rhino said:

 

FTFY  

 

No, you didn't.  The US media doesn't pay attention to the Turkish State media.  They've simply been too busy with Kavanaugh to pay attention.

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, DC Tom said:

 

No, you didn't.  The US media doesn't pay attention to the Turkish State media.  They've simply been too busy with Kavanaugh to pay attention.

On this story they have, considering it's their source for every bit of information they've "broken" so far. 

[Tiberius]

Trump's financial ties to the kingdom should also raise red flags 

 

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/andrewkaczynski/set-an-open-course-for-the-virgin-sea#.apEW1aaem

[DC Tom]

2 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

What nonsense. Such butt cleaning of Trump is disgusting. Trump has sent the signal to every thug dictator in the world that he admires them. No wonder they are so brazen in their attacks. They know the WH will only mumble something and hope everyone quickly forgets 

 

 

 

Go to the State Department web site and read all the statements and press releases. 

 

 

[Prickly Pete]

59 minutes ago, B-Man said:

Ben is correct, there is a lot more to be uncovered here

Did he really think implying the president would take bribes from the Saudis so they could murder his critics is even sane, let alone appropriate?

 

I'm guessing this article lit the fire under Ben Franklin.

[Deranged Rhino]

2 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

 

 

Go to the State Department web site and read all the statements and press releases. 

 

 

 

I do hear Otto's voice now with every Tibs' post  

[3rdnlng]

Once I saw who the OP was I thought the title of this thread was code for gay marriage.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

Truth.

 

Also, worth the read (thread)

 

[Magox]

J.A sorry to hijack your thread, I'm curious to know your thoughts on the Kavanaugh issue.

[Nanker]

Erdogan faked a coup attempt in order to purge his enemies.

[Tiberius]

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

 

 

 

Go to the State Department web site and read all the statements and press releases. 

 

 

I'd rather follow the money. All Trump's ties to these thugs says a lot about why he kisses their butt. 

[The_Dude]

Haj, hajjing against other Haj’s, will always bring other hajjing Haj’s into it.  Every time. 

[Benjamin Franklin]

Saudi Arabia says he left. It will be trivial for the Saudi embassy to provide the footage of his departure to inquiring minds. 

 

Erdogan and MBS are a mess but the good news is that the SA embassy would have plenty of footage of the embassy entrances. 

 

Any evasion in providing said footage would be telling. Assume the footage angle is being pursued. 

Edited October 12, 2018 by Benjamin Franklin

[Tiberius]

Well, I'm sure Donald Trump is more concerned about the first amendment rights than profits at his Saudi hotels 

[Wacka]

There is no first amendment except in the United States. Even Canada and England have no  explicit rights spelled out to free speech.

 

[TakeYouToTasker]

26 minutes ago, Wacka said:

There is no first amendment except in the United States. Even Canada and England have no  explicit rights spelled out to free speech.

 

This is correct.

[Benjamin Franklin]

19 hours ago, Nanker said:

Erdogan faked a coup attempt in order to purge his enemies.

 

MBS arrested women's-rights activists this year and some face beheading for protests. So this isn't a beauty contest between exemplary regimes. SA has long been the enemy of my enemy. In this case, MBS may have overplayed his hand.

 

This goes away if SA provides the footage of him leaving the embassy like they say he did. 

 

 

[Nanker]

28 minutes ago, Benjamin Franklin said:

 

MBS arrested women's-rights activists this year and some face beheading for protests. So this isn't a beauty contest between exemplary regimes. SA has long been the enemy of my enemy. In this case, MBS may have overplayed his hand.

 

This goes away if SA provides the footage of him leaving the embassy like they say he did. 

 

 

Agreed on all points. 

 

In the never-ending tribal warfare that defines the Middle East (as well as most other parts of the world where tribal ties are held more deeply than national interests) MBS is the highly educated, personable thug to become the leader of the pack. He doesn’t seem as bloodthirsty as Saddam Husein’s Family or the Ayatollah Kakamamees though.

 

That said, I don’t trust Erdogan one whit. 

[Deranged Rhino]

The timing of this... 

 

Turkey trying to look good to flip the US/Saudi relationship? Or an honest attempt to repair the Turk/US relationship?

 

We'll find out.

[Nanker]

It is curious timing. Throwing Trump a bone all the while sliming MBS to create a wedge between KSA and the USA.

 

[Tiberius]

2 hours ago, Wacka said:

There is no first amendment except in the United States. Even Canada and England have no  explicit rights spelled out to free speech.

 

Absolutely, but until you clowns elected Trump, we exercised the moral leadership of the world, see Reagan's "City Upon A Hill" rhetoric for an example. 

 

That you so casually throw that away with "Not our problem" garbage says so much about Trump, his supporters and where this trashy movement is taking us. 

[Deranged Rhino]

SCOREBOARD

...The movement is taking us so far to:

 

Peace in the Koreas

No new wars

Economic prosperity across all demos

 

... Hillary's administration so far:

 

[Nanker]

4 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

SCOREBOARD

...The movement is taking us so far to:

 

Peace in the Koreas

No new wars

Economic prosperity across all demos

 

... Hillary's administration so far:

 

 for the gyph

for the post. 

[Deranged Rhino]

Important context/food for thought while trying to puzzle this one out: it's a post no-name world... puppeteers are scrambling to reestablish a grip on the wheel of power.

 

 

[3rdnlng]

23 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Absolutely, but until you clowns elected Trump, we exercised the moral leadership of the world, see Reagan's "City Upon A Hill" rhetoric for an example. 

 

That you so casually throw that away with "Not our problem" garbage says so much about Trump, his supporters and where this trashy movement is taking us. 

Gleeful Gator, can you explain all the trouble in the Middle East in the past decade? Start with red lines in the sand, pallets of cash and supplying AQ with weapons.

[Deranged Rhino]

As I suspected: 

 

Saffuri is an enemy of the United States and an AQ sympathyizer. What would he, or AQ, have to gain at putting a wedge between the GCC and the US?

 

 

 

(answer: A LOT)

 

Optics:

 

And lies. 

 

(Remember Isikoff's role in the dossier/coup attempt... also has skin in this game)

[KD in CA]

22 hours ago, Nanker said:

Erdogan faked a coup attempt in order to purge his enemies.

 

Kinda scary how the US media not only ignored this fact but ran the propaganda line for Erdogan.

[Deranged Rhino]

More from the thread above: 

 

It's a shame journalists no longer do their jobs. 

[Benjamin Franklin]

1 hour ago, KD in CA said:

 

Kinda scary how the US media not only ignored this fact but ran the propaganda line for Erdogan.

 

I've read no end of articles decrying him as a strongman and dictator for a decade. He's no friend of democracy and it's been endlessly covered. 

 

That doesn't mean he's wrong on what happened here, and he's happy to benefit from calling out Saudi Arabia. Pretty easy for SA to refute his claims. SA says Khashoggi entered the embassy and also says he left. That story is easy to prove. Probably their cameras were out though and they can't find the footage.

 

The fallout is that it looks very bad (again) for us to be aligned with such states. All we do is move these slimey pieces around the chess board in the hopes that one of these countries isn't a !@#$ing nightmare. Trump (Kushner) is just the latest guy to play the game.   

[TakeYouToTasker]

3 minutes ago, Benjamin Franklin said:

 

I've read no end of articles decrying him as a strongman and dictator for a decade. He's no friend of democracy and it's been endlessly covered. 

 

That doesn't mean he's wrong on what happened here, and he's happy to benefit from calling out Saudi Arabia. Pretty easy for SA to refute his claims. SA says Khashoggi entered the embassy and also says he left. That story is easy to prove. Probably their cameras were out though and they can't find the footage.

 

The fallout is that it looks very bad (again) for us to be aligned with such states. All we do is move these slimey pieces around the chess board in the hopes that one of these countries isn't a !@#$ing nightmare. Trump (Kushner) is just the latest guy to play the game.   

 

Disingenuous, and promoting a gross mischaracterization of how geo-politics works.

 

KSA isn't the power player in the world, or in this relationship.  We are.

 

We haven't aligned with their interests, but rather they have aligned with ours to the extent that they've begun along the long road of recognizing religious freedoms and the rights of women, and purging out a massive amount of bad actors within their own government; and we have benefited from them doing so in regards to snuffing out bad actors within our own government, and in cracking down on the international slave trade, advancing human freedom on a global scale.

 

With that said, these nations are their own sovereign entities.

 

We don't control them. 

 

Is your argument here that if KSA did sanction the killing of one of their own citizens acting as a journalist, that we should go to war with them?  That we should suspend diplomatic relations, and abandon the larger pursuit of human freedom in the world and domestically?  What's your end game here?