Warcodered Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Just now, joesixpack said: So basically, threaten to fire him, if not fire him outright. More of the same. Thanks for the effort, I do appreciate you putting something forward, but it's kind of clear where your feelings about the current regime lie. You want to repeat the pattern of the past 20 years and give people three years or less. Nah, I'll pass. I'm really confused wasn't this supposed to be a bad year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Just now, Warcodered said: I'm really confused wasn't this supposed to be a bad year? it was. but a significantly vocal portion of the fan base just can't accept it. and they're going to make sure you hear their displeasure...over...and over....and over...and over... and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris66 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 At least he didnt say " its hard to win in the nfl" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 37 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Well, that's well put, and I agree to some extent. They've said it before - they will take not take a guy with talent who doesn't fit the culture. So that means, I think, that they want to fill the locker room with guys who fit the culture, and they will improve the talent as they can. I get that. However, I don't see why it should mean that you have to do that with coaching. Why can't you have coaches who fit the culture and who ALSO are good at Xs and Os. What some of us have been talking about is that the offense seems remarkably ineffective, and I think that's more about coaching than talent. I mean, this talent on offense isn't going to light up everyone, but it should at least be able to SCORE once in a while. Is McDermott telling us that Daboll isn't so good at strategy, but he's good at culture and that's all the Bills need right now? If so, I think McDermott is wrong. This is his second offensive coordinator in two years, and he shouldn't have swung and missed twice at hiring someone who actually could figure out how to move the ball. i'm with you here. i don't expect dominant play, but i also don't expect this team to sleepwalk through the games like they have. i'm not sure it's a daboll issue, but i don't know a ton about him as a coach. if mcdermott really thinks this on daboll, then what? can you have 3 coordinators in 3 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 I know of no successful organizations that do not have a successful culture. When he says culture trumps strategy it means you can have the best plays called, best coaching, etc. but if guys aren't committed to work and improvement it won't mean much. I note some here saying he does not want talent. That is nowhere to be found in his statement. His and Beane's jobs are to bring talent in and mold it into a successful team. But if the talent is not part of a broader success mindset and culture the talent will not be as successful as it should be. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, joesixpack said: it was. but a significantly vocal portion of the fan base just can't accept it. and they're going to make sure you hear their displeasure...over...and over....and over...and over... and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over...and over... I can accept the "build"..but if he thinks a guy who works harder and celebrates with the team but cant separate from a DB is more important than a me-first diva receiver who is always playing for his next contract but separates and creates mismatches all over the field...that is not a "strategy" i can buy into . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philo Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I know of no successful organizations that do not have a successful culture. When he says culture trumps strategy it means you can have the best plays called, best coaching, etc. but if guys aren't committed to work and improvement it won't mean much. I note some here saying he does not want talent. That is nowhere to be found in his statement. His and Beane's jobs are to bring talent in and mold it into a successful team. But if the talent is not part of a broader success mindset and culture the talent will not be as successful as it should be. Yeah, I don't know why some posters have brought up talent when it's not what he is addressing. The question he was asked and his answer is in regard to coaching, team building, and thus team cohesion/atmosphere. I think he is trying to say that having the right guys with the right mindset will be better for the team overall than specific X's and O's in the long run. Either way, he knows you have to have the talent to execute, just not lazy or selfish talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Just now, plenzmd1 said: I can accept the "build"..but if he thinks a guy who works harder and celebrates with the team but cant separate from a DB is more important than a me-first diva receiver who is always playing for his next contract but separates and creates mismatches all over the field...that is not a "strategy" i can buy into . So, with that being said let's see who they've drafted: Edmunds White Milano Allen Phillips Johnson Neal ALL look like really good gets. Could it be maybe that NEXT year is when they go hard on Offense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeHateMe Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Culture has to trump strategy around here because these guys don't know what strategy is.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 1 minute ago, joesixpack said: So, with that being said let's see who they've drafted: Edmunds White Milano Allen Phillips Johnson Neal ALL look like really good gets. Could it be maybe that NEXT year is when they go hard on Offense? i said I am okay with a "build" ...but even you have to agree that statement about culture over strategy is insane..if Gaily said that you would have gone ballistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, joesixpack said: So basically, threaten to fire him, if not fire him outright. More of the same. Thanks for the effort, I do appreciate you putting something forward, but it's kind of clear where your feelings about the current regime lie. You want to repeat the pattern of the past 20 years and give people three years or less. Nah, I'll pass. It is not my preference but the current regime, right now, has displayed outright negligence. I applaud the the investment in draft picks required to get a QB, even if it may have been a year late. But surrounding that QB with horrendous talent and scheme and exposing him to injury is not a smart plan and it needs to be fixed ASAP. To be clear: it is fixable. But messing around with a long-term "culture change" is not what I'd want to hear about if I were the owner, at this point. They have a young QB getting beaten to a pulp. Edited October 3, 2018 by Coach Tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 1 minute ago, plenzmd1 said: i said I am okay with a "build" ...but even you have to agree that statement about culture over strategy is insane..if Gaily said that you would have gone ballistic. Considering I liked Chan, I doubt it. I think his statement is one of "we want guys with talent AND effort." That's what he means by culture, but people here have their preconceived ideas about what he means. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeHateMe Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Is Kelvin Benjamin a culture guy then? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 1 minute ago, joesixpack said: Considering I liked Chan, I doubt it. I think his statement is one of "we want guys with talent AND effort." That's what he means by culture, but people here have their preconceived ideas about what he means. i get what he means by culture..Marv used character the same way Sean uses culture...Marv always meant he wanted guys with "football" character" ..as MCD said today, not choir boys. But hard work and talent need strategy in today's NFL..teams are winning by outthinking and out scheming other teams...strategy is just part of today's game..it is no longer..just beat the guy in front of you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 52 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Yeah I value culture as well........but the problem with a culture based re-build is that a seamless transition then requires someone that the players trust will put them in position to win. You hire a Marty Schottenheimer type who has proven he can win to do a culture based re-build and then hope the football evolves. You hire a Sean McVay type to do a football based re-build and hope the culture develops FROM winning. McD obviously felt that he didn't have the cred to pull off what he wanted to do without ridding his roster of skeptics..........and naturally your more talented players.....who are the least concerned about their own job security....... are the most likely to be openly skeptical of a lackluster hire. So here we are. A wanna-be Schottenheimer trying to fake it til' he makes it before his expiration date arrives. i can't argue too much with this, and i especially agree with the bolded. i don't think you can build on a culture model. culture is important, but it's something that developed every time. I don't think BB walked on as the coach of the pats and just installed a culture. they landed on a qb, but systems in place, kept consistency, and the winning culture appeared. my hope for this staff is that the offseason is drastic. they put themselves in this situation, so i'm very curious to see if they can get themselves out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 1 minute ago, plenzmd1 said: it is no longer..just beat the guy in front of you! Jacksonville made it to the AFCCG and nearly won it by doing just that. So, I get that media wankers don't like to admit it, but that IS a valid way to win nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 12 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I know of no successful organizations that do not have a successful culture. When he says culture trumps strategy it means you can have the best plays called, best coaching, etc. but if guys aren't committed to work and improvement it won't mean much. I note some here saying he does not want talent. That is nowhere to be found in his statement. His and Beane's jobs are to bring talent in and mold it into a successful team. But if the talent is not part of a broader success mindset and culture the talent will not be as successful as it should be. Thank you for saying this. It seems some folks heard "Culture is the only thing." That is not at all what was said. We were not a talented team last year...yet we won more than we lost. We are getting more talented on the defensive side of the football. Allen hopefully adds an important piece to the offense, but clearly offensive talent is what is lacking this year. The jury is out on our offensive coaching. I don't understand what Daboll is trying to do from week to week. Running the football does not appear to be part of his overall plan. Yes...this is a passing league, but you can't have a good passing game without talent...and without a respected run game. Weren't there a couple other OC's that McDermott wanted his first year that signed with different teams? The good OCs in the league are taken, so McDermott went to one of the most talented college teams (Alabama) to grab Daboll...who also happened to be from the area so he was easy to attract. I think we have to wait and see what develops. McDermott though is obviously not pleased with the current direction. He just isn't the type to throw anyone under the bus publicly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COTC Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Warcodered said: I'm really confused wasn't this supposed to be a bad year? We went from playoff potential to worse team in the league... We were supposed to build on last years success. Josh McDanials is to Tim Tebow as McDermott is to Josh Allen. Edited October 3, 2018 by COTC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 43 minutes ago, joesixpack said: And you'll be able to cast that judgement before it even has a chance to come to fruition? Me? My judgement doesn't matter. But Allen is on pace to set an NFL record for sacks in a season, and if he is IR'd or suffers the sort of injuries that tend to curtain a QB's career (multiple concussions, back or shoulder) I would say that's the judgement right there. Tell me what you mean by "chance to come to fruition" though? 3 minutes ago, COTC said: Josh McDanials is to Tim Tebow as McDermott is to Josh Allen. Oh, now, that's harsh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 I think the majority of people are really overreacting juuuuuuuust a bit here. We all knew (at least the smart fans) that the team was going to suck. Enjoy the ride people 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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