Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 2 hours ago, JohnC said: The Bills signed the veteran CB who had a very good career coming off an injury. They thought he could be useful for this season while being very aware that he was in the twilight of his career. It's apparent to me that while they didn't know he was going to quit in the middle of the game the staff was well aware that he was a fading player. In my opinion if he didn't quit he would have been benched. I could be mistaken, but I think jw knows very well what Vontae's career was. The point is right now, we are hella short at the CB position. It's not a bad move to take a shot at him on a 90 man roster, but jw point appears to me: maybe the time to look around and invest in additional CB help was last spring, when the Bills learned Vontae was still trying to overcome his injury. If not then, at least when he couldn't play in preseason, put out the APB and have a heart to heart about the CB situation and whether Davis should be IR'd or cut and replaced. We've played a career safety at CB already 'cuz we're so short. That's not good roster management - 53 or active. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 15 hours ago, BillsFan4 said: I am not usually one to start new threads, but I wanted to make sure people read this, with how many are down on the Bills right now. This was reassuring for me to read. I hope it is for you too... https://theathletic.com/531712/2018/09/18/wood-its-so-hard-for-me-to-fathom-that-anyone-would-quit-on-their-teammates-like-vontae-davis-did/ (Sorry, it’s a link to the Athletic - sub. required - but I copied & pasted the relevant part of the article) they still are, but the cupboard is bare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 15 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Love Eric Wood, but he's not exactly a neutral arbiter when it comes to the Bills. Yeah but considering the folks flipping out about Preston Brown's comments--also not neutral and probably very jaded--it's worthwhile seeing this perspective from another player who was a Bill for years but no longer is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnCoke11 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Hear a lot about culture and buying in.. means nothing with piss poor talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 8 hours ago, K-9 said: Here's a thought, too: in the absence of any answers to those questions and instead of seeking to get those answers directly from the principles involved, why do some media folks insist on just going with their conjecture as though it means anything. I know one fact: Vontae Davis acted in the most unprofessional manner that pro football team member can act. He gets no benefit of the doubt. None. * principals 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: $3.5M guaranteed salary is "pennies" now? On a team where folks are asserting we couldn't sign a couple FA OL 'cuz "no cap"? The $3.5 M salary is not an extravagant amount for a starting CB. They thought they could get one more year on this weathered player. The Bills were determined to absorb a bulk cap hit this year so that next near the team would have a good cap situation. One can disagree with their strategy but it was what they decided to do. It's obvious with their cap strategy that they weren't investing heavily in the market this year as demonstrated by the cheap OL pickups that they made this year. The personnel decisions were made in the context of a longer term rebuild. One can disagree with that strategy but there is a logic to it. Maybe not you but I'm on board with their line of thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 13 minutes ago, JohnC said: The $3.5 M salary is not an extravagant amount for a starting CB. They thought they could get one more year on this weathered player. You were saying that Corey Coleman cost the team 'pennies': 12 hours ago, JohnC said: As far as the Coleman pick-up they gave up pennies to get a look at a speedster who was a former first round pick. This was a low cost and insignificant transaction. It isn't something to be bothered by. I was responding to that, and quite clearly, the quote mentioned him by name. $3.5M fully guaranteed is the amount of Corey Coleman's salary the Bills took on when they traded to the Browns for him, only to cut him less than a month later. Is that "pennies" now? In my opinion, when we're being told the Bills can't afford to pay a couple good FA interior OLmen and a contributing FA WR, I think it's not. Either you didn't do homework before pronouncing that Coleman cost the Bills "pennies", or your definition of "pennies" is quite odd under the cap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I could be mistaken, but I think jw knows very well what Vontae's career was. The point is right now, we are hella short at the CB position. It's not a bad move to take a shot at him on a 90 man roster, but jw point appears to me: maybe the time to look around and invest in additional CB help was last spring, when the Bills learned Vontae was still trying to overcome his injury. If not then, at least when he couldn't play in preseason, put out the APB and have a heart to heart about the CB situation and whether Davis should be IR'd or cut and replaced. We've played a career safety at CB already 'cuz we're so short. That's not good roster management - 53 or active. You and JW may be prescient but the Bills weren't. They thought that they could get by with him for this season. It didn't work out. Without question Davis was not fully recovered. They felt that he would be adequately ready by the time the season started. He wasn't physically and mentally. It didn't work out for the player or the organization. It happens in a profession based on brutality. If you want to after the fact point your finger to a reasonable and calculated judgment that's okay. When you are in a business that requires a lot of personnel judgments not all of them are going to work out. I'm wouldn't be critical of Vontae if he retired after the game. But I am critical of him for walking out at halftime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLTbills Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 20 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: That's true, but the fact is, the Bills played better in the 2nd half after Vontae quit. He didn't play in Baltimore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Just now, JohnC said: You and JW may be prescient but the Bills weren't. They thought that they could get by with him for this season. Come On, John. When your hoped-for starting corner acknowledges that he's still recovering in the spring and is obviously finding it painful to move during TC and not looking good, prescience is NOT required. Cornerback is one of the most demanding positions in a demanding sport. if the guy goes into the season gimping, Plan B is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: You were saying that Corey Coleman cost the team 'pennies': I was responding to that, and quite clearly, mentioning Coleman by name. $3.5M fully guaranteed is the amount of Corey Coleman's salary the Bills took on when they traded to the Browns for him, only to cut him less than a month later. Is that "pennies" now? In my opinion, when we're being told the Bills can't afford to pay a couple good FA interior OLmen and a contributing FA WR, I think it's not. Either you didn't do homework before pronouncing that Coleman cost the Bills "pennies", or your definition of "pennies" is quite odd under the cap I thought you were talking about Vontae. As far as Coleman they took a risk on him. It didn't work out. They had a need for a speed receiver and wanted to try out the former first round pick. They quickly realized that he is a bust. They moved on. I have no problem with the attempt to upgrade at an area of need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, JohnC said: I thought you were talking about Vontae. As far as Coleman they took a risk on him. It didn't work out. They had a need for a speed receiver and wanted to try out the former first round pick. They quickly realized that he is a bust. They moved on. I have no problem with the attempt to upgrade at an area of need. If you thought I was talking about Vontae, when I clearly quoted the portion of your post that mentioned Coleman by name and referred to cutting him after a month, you at best weren't bothering to read my post with reasonable care. 3.5M is 2% of the cap. It slots Coleman in as the 11th highest cap figure on the active Bills. Please answer the questions: -is 2% of the cap and the 11th cap figure "pennies" to an NFL team in your opinion? Yes or No? Straight up please. -is it reasonable or responsible pro player personnel evaluation to try to "upgrade" at a position of need, by spending 2% of your cap and #11 of your roster, on a player whose effort and/or attitude are so bad, you cut him after a month? Does that suggest due diligence to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring it Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 20 hours ago, CountDorkula said: Yea the culture is fine, of course it is.That doesn't mean a dam thing if you have 0 talent on this team. but hey, culture is super important. This is such BS. If the Bills are 2-0 right now, i guaran-damn-tee you vontae does not quit. He saw this team was going to be bad and said, eff it the money ain't worth being on the worst team in football. That’s what I thought at first too! But he was on some pretty pathetic Colts teams the last couple of years! I don’t know if we ever know the real reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Come On, John. When your hoped-for starting corner acknowledges that he's still recovering in the spring and is obviously finding it painful to move during TC and not looking good, prescience is NOT required. Cornerback is one of the most demanding positions in a demanding sport. if the guy goes into the season gimping, Plan B is needed. The player and the team thought he was going to be ready by the time the season started. He wasn't it. It didn't work out. It's not a catastrophe. It's not an unusual occurrence especially for an aging player who doesn't have the resilience that a younger player has. The Bills thought that they could get by this year with him. It didn't work out. You are giving this issue more weight than I am. He was not a cornerstone player. He was a player they were hoping to get by on for this year. From what was stated by others who were reporting on the game the replacement player did fine, if not better than the struggling veteran. 5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: If you thought I was talking about Vontae, when I clearly quoted the portion of your post that mentioned Coleman by name and referred to cutting him after a month, you at best weren't bothering to read my post with reasonable care. 3.5M is 2% of the cap. It slots Coleman in as the 11th highest cap figure on the active Bills. Please answer the questions: -is 2% of the cap and the 11th cap figure "pennies" to an NFL team in your opinion? Yes or No? Straight up please. -is it reasonable or responsible pro player personnel evaluation to try to "upgrade" at a position of need, by spending 2% of your cap and #11 of your roster, on a player whose effort and/or attitude are so bad, you cut him after a month? Does that suggest due diligence to you? In the grand scheme of things the cap hit that the Bills took on Coleman is trivial and insignificant. Whatever they want to do from a personnel standpoint with or without trading for Coleman can still be done. The Bills took a gamble on a former first round speed receiver and it didn't work out. The repercussions for this team is minuscule. You are inflating the importance of a transaction that didn't work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 22 minutes ago, JohnC said: The player and the team thought he was going to be ready by the time the season started. He wasn't it. It didn't work out. It's not a catastrophe. It's not an unusual occurrence especially for an aging player who doesn't have the resilience that a younger player has. The Bills thought that they could get by this year with him. It didn't work out. You are giving this issue more weight than I am. He was not a cornerstone player. He was a player they were hoping to get by on for this year. From what was stated by others who were reporting on the game the replacement player did fine, if not better than the struggling veteran. In the grand scheme of things the cap hit that the Bills took on Coleman is trivial and insignificant. Whatever they want to do from a personnel standpoint with or without trading for Coleman can still be done. The Bills took a gamble on a former first round speed receiver and it didn't work out. The repercussions for this team is minuscule. You are inflating the importance of a transaction that didn't work out. Oh, Well. That Answers That then. I'm outta here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaLoko Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) On 9/18/2018 at 10:49 AM, 26CornerBlitz said: Love Eric Wood, but he's not exactly a neutral arbiter when it comes to the Bills. So who is? .... you? Edited September 19, 2018 by BuffaLoko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleeby Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 So much drama. Toughen up people. I mean, carping is to be expected but the drama and the rumor starting and conspiracy theories is a bit much. It's kinda pathetic. Logic would imply that if wood's friends were miserable he would keep quiet for their sake. Since he spoke publicly that tells me he is sharing truth and all is as well as can be for a last place rebuild year. He was a captain and a leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 15 hours ago, Billsfanatic8989 said: Dude is still on the payroll. What else will he say? Really a comment that can be taken with a grain of salt. He's getting his money no matter what. 5 hours ago, BuffaLoko said: So who is? .... you? The talking heads and players the Bills allowed to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bockeye Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Come On, John. When your hoped-for starting corner acknowledges that he's still recovering in the spring and is obviously finding it painful to move during TC and not looking good, prescience is NOT required. Cornerback is one of the most demanding positions in a demanding sport. if the guy goes into the season gimping, Plan B is needed. 100% agree. We could be talking about Trent Murphy here too. I'm starting to question the Process instead of trusting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 On 9/18/2018 at 12:05 PM, CountDorkula said: If it were the first time it happened then sure. 1) Boldin 2) Incognito 3) Davis seems odd that 3 guys have up and quit on this team. It has not happened anywhere else yet. On 9/18/2018 at 12:10 PM, CountDorkula said: yet... Bouldin was barely in the team, same with Davis and Richie is a nut but go ahead and troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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