CSBill Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 8 hours ago, tumaro02 said: I blame this whole issue on Sean McDermott. 1. For some reason he felt necessary after Allen was drafted to make it abundantly clear to Bills nation and the entire NFL that Allen 7th overall pick would start as the #3 QB throughout OTAs and minicamp apparently to make clear he had to "earn" his reps. He then simultaneously handed the starting MLB job to Edmunds without earning anything. Diminishing Allen in this manner was not necessary. Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold were not treated in this fashion by their head coaches. He setup Allen as being a "disappointment" by sticking with "his plan" for Allen which I believe was juvenile and flawed. 2. Under the guise of building "foundations" for Allen which apparently include Allen learning how to cross the street, find his locker, hold a clipboard, watch the other 2 QBs lace up their cleats, learn the playbook, etc. was ridiculous. Allen scored the highest in the Wunderlich of all QBs in the Combine. What the #7 was going to learn from McCarron or Peterman could be learned in an hour. 3. McDermott repeatedly stayed the course on his plan for Allen while his "franchise QB" was getting roasted in the local and national media for not progressing up the charts by using his cute "this is a rep chart not a depth chart" comment. McDermott just continues to allow his #7 get roasted while he "smirks" in pressers when local media push him on his plans for Allen. 4. The local press exacerbate the problem by feeling the need to report only the "completion percentage" they see of all the QBs which many view as Allen's weakness. Quoting these stats without also quoting the YPA or YPC misrepresents the results of the QB's target choices. The local press apparently view QB1 stats of say 5/5, 30, 0,0 as better than QB2 stats of 3/5 125,1,0 for instance. Quoting completion % only is completely out of context. We know that one QB hesitates to throw the ball ala Tyrod Taylor so as not to get picked and throws safer routes while one QB throws the ball downfield. Quess who is who. The stat however is completely misleading and Allen's perceived inaccuracy is perpetuated by those reported stats. 5. It has been reported by the press that their have been a disturbing # of dropped passes by the Bills WR group. This also helps perpetuate the inaccuracy issue. 6. In camp it appears that the QB gets a sack when he is "tagged" by a defender (protecting the QBs). One QB has frequently been reported as taking the most sacks. In reality we know that Allen has the best ability to avoid the physical contact and make plays when being contacted. He is charged with the same "touch" sack when we know his physical ability would allow the result to be significantly different than McCarron's "touch sack" outcome. Local reports of sacks makes no comment of "probably would have avoided" a particular "sack". 7. Allen also suffers from the "Allen derangement disorder" by many Bills fans and local media. Even Howard Simon who was "disappointed" by the pick at first claims to have come around to "support" the pick. But his next words talk about Allen's accuracy issues, footwork needs, and every other slam Allen has gotten from the pro "Rosen" supporters. Comical. 8. Allen has been a trooper throughout when I would seriously question his head coach's motives and treatment. He has not "demanded" to be a starter which others have slammed as an indictment of Allen's drive. 9. Allen cannot win until he wins the starting job, games, playoff games, and then Superbowl if that can ever happen. He will always have his "should have been Rosen" critics, and all types of critics with agendas largely because his head coach in very naive fashion allowed him to continually get criticized for everything he does. If I were Allen I would call out his coach for his "cute little plan" that allows constant criticism of him. He has kept quiet however and let his head coach look like a smirking clown IMO. It is clear you don't like McDermott. You do, however, raise some interesting points---I do not agree with most of them, but you present a passionate perspective on the situation. The one thing I do agree with you on is the contrast of how McDermott has treated Edmunds versus Allen. As you point out, Edmunds has been the ML starter since his plane touched down in Buffalo. Where they have been extremely cautious with Allen. It is odd, the eagerness with one and the slowness with the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 You have to not follow the team to be that dumb. Fans of the team know that Allen is exactly where the coaches said he would be. It's like saying it disappointing that the team has managed to follow through on it's plan. 9 hours ago, tumaro02 said: I blame this whole issue on Sean McDermott. 1. For some reason he felt necessary after Allen was drafted to make it abundantly clear to Bills nation and the entire NFL that Allen 7th overall pick would start as the #3 QB throughout OTAs and minicamp apparently to make clear he had to "earn" his reps. He then simultaneously handed the starting MLB job to Edmunds without earning anything. Diminishing Allen in this manner was not necessary. Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold were not treated in this fashion by their head coaches. He setup Allen as being a "disappointment" by sticking with "his plan" for Allen which I believe was juvenile and flawed. 2. Under the guise of building "foundations" for Allen which apparently include Allen learning how to cross the street, find his locker, hold a clipboard, watch the other 2 QBs lace up their cleats, learn the playbook, etc. was ridiculous. Allen scored the highest in the Wunderlich of all QBs in the Combine. What the #7 was going to learn from McCarron or Peterman could be learned in an hour. 3. McDermott repeatedly stayed the course on his plan for Allen while his "franchise QB" was getting roasted in the local and national media for not progressing up the charts by using his cute "this is a rep chart not a depth chart" comment. McDermott just continues to allow his #7 get roasted while he "smirks" in pressers when local media push him on his plans for Allen. 4. The local press exacerbate the problem by feeling the need to report only the "completion percentage" they see of all the QBs which many view as Allen's weakness. Quoting these stats without also quoting the YPA or YPC misrepresents the results of the QB's target choices. The local press apparently view QB1 stats of say 5/5, 30, 0,0 as better than QB2 stats of 3/5 125,1,0 for instance. Quoting completion % only is completely out of context. We know that one QB hesitates to throw the ball ala Tyrod Taylor so as not to get picked and throws safer routes while one QB throws the ball downfield. Quess who is who. The stat however is completely misleading and Allen's perceived inaccuracy is perpetuated by those reported stats. 5. It has been reported by the press that their have been a disturbing # of dropped passes by the Bills WR group. This also helps perpetuate the inaccuracy issue. 6. In camp it appears that the QB gets a sack when he is "tagged" by a defender (protecting the QBs). One QB has frequently been reported as taking the most sacks. In reality we know that Allen has the best ability to avoid the physical contact and make plays when being contacted. He is charged with the same "touch" sack when we know his physical ability would allow the result to be significantly different than McCarron's "touch sack" outcome. Local reports of sacks makes no comment of "probably would have avoided" a particular "sack". 7. Allen also suffers from the "Allen derangement disorder" by many Bills fans and local media. Even Howard Simon who was "disappointed" by the pick at first claims to have come around to "support" the pick. But his next words talk about Allen's accuracy issues, footwork needs, and every other slam Allen has gotten from the pro "Rosen" supporters. Comical. 8. Allen has been a trooper throughout when I would seriously question his head coach's motives and treatment. He has not "demanded" to be a starter which others have slammed as an indictment of Allen's drive. 9. Allen cannot win until he wins the starting job, games, playoff games, and then Superbowl if that can ever happen. He will always have his "should have been Rosen" critics, and all types of critics with agendas largely because his head coach in very naive fashion allowed him to continually get criticized for everything he does. If I were Allen I would call out his coach for his "cute little plan" that allows constant criticism of him. He has kept quiet however and let his head coach look like a smirking clown IMO. Wow. So many words. You seem to have an axe to grind, But it still doesn't change the fact that they are carrying through there predetermined plan, regardless of outside voice....so far. And really, your going to compare a rookie QB developing to a linebacker? Lol, no. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 13 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Who is Mark Ludwiczak? (honest ???) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 9 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said: Who is Mark Ludwiczak? (honest ???) Local Bills reporter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 OMG!!! Media coverage of the first week of training camp??? Can we just go back to the days where Kelly and Bruce would refuse to practice in training camp? This coverage of practice is so stupid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 11 hours ago, NoSaint said: If any other team traded up to take a guy in the top 10 and that guy wasn’t beating out peterman and McCarron we would be roasting them a bit. It’s natural. You take the high risk guy and until he shows reward you will get some skepticism. The optics right now warrant a raised eyebrow from outsiders. No we wouldnt. Especially considering the entire draft process you knew Allen was a project who wasnt anticipated to start day one regardless of where he was drafted. As far as the skepticism, now yes, that's anticipated, but not with blind subjectivity. Allen is low hanging fruit to the media, but at least be responsible in the reports and informative. Instead that reporter was lazy and didnt delve into what's really playing out at Bills camp. 10 hours ago, tumaro02 said: I blame this whole issue on Sean McDermott. 1. For some reason he felt necessary after Allen was drafted to make it abundantly clear to Bills nation and the entire NFL that Allen 7th overall pick would start as the #3 QB throughout OTAs and minicamp apparently to make clear he had to "earn" his reps. He then simultaneously handed the starting MLB job to Edmunds without earning anything. Diminishing Allen in this manner was not necessary. Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold were not treated in this fashion by their head coaches. He setup Allen as being a "disappointment" by sticking with "his plan" for Allen which I believe was juvenile and flawed. 2. Under the guise of building "foundations" for Allen which apparently include Allen learning how to cross the street, find his locker, hold a clipboard, watch the other 2 QBs lace up their cleats, learn the playbook, etc. was ridiculous. Allen scored the highest in the Wunderlich of all QBs in the Combine. What the #7 was going to learn from McCarron or Peterman could be learned in an hour. 3. McDermott repeatedly stayed the course on his plan for Allen while his "franchise QB" was getting roasted in the local and national media for not progressing up the charts by using his cute "this is a rep chart not a depth chart" comment. McDermott just continues to allow his #7 get roasted while he "smirks" in pressers when local media push him on his plans for Allen. 4. The local press exacerbate the problem by feeling the need to report only the "completion percentage" they see of all the QBs which many view as Allen's weakness. Quoting these stats without also quoting the YPA or YPC misrepresents the results of the QB's target choices. The local press apparently view QB1 stats of say 5/5, 30, 0,0 as better than QB2 stats of 3/5 125,1,0 for instance. Quoting completion % only is completely out of context. We know that one QB hesitates to throw the ball ala Tyrod Taylor so as not to get picked and throws safer routes while one QB throws the ball downfield. Quess who is who. The stat however is completely misleading and Allen's perceived inaccuracy is perpetuated by those reported stats. 5. It has been reported by the press that their have been a disturbing # of dropped passes by the Bills WR group. This also helps perpetuate the inaccuracy issue. 6. In camp it appears that the QB gets a sack when he is "tagged" by a defender (protecting the QBs). One QB has frequently been reported as taking the most sacks. In reality we know that Allen has the best ability to avoid the physical contact and make plays when being contacted. He is charged with the same "touch" sack when we know his physical ability would allow the result to be significantly different than McCarron's "touch sack" outcome. Local reports of sacks makes no comment of "probably would have avoided" a particular "sack". 7. Allen also suffers from the "Allen derangement disorder" by many Bills fans and local media. Even Howard Simon who was "disappointed" by the pick at first claims to have come around to "support" the pick. But his next words talk about Allen's accuracy issues, footwork needs, and every other slam Allen has gotten from the pro "Rosen" supporters. Comical. 8. Allen has been a trooper throughout when I would seriously question his head coach's motives and treatment. He has not "demanded" to be a starter which others have slammed as an indictment of Allen's drive. 9. Allen cannot win until he wins the starting job, games, playoff games, and then Superbowl if that can ever happen. He will always have his "should have been Rosen" critics, and all types of critics with agendas largely because his head coach in very naive fashion allowed him to continually get criticized for everything he does. If I were Allen I would call out his coach for his "cute little plan" that allows constant criticism of him. He has kept quiet however and let his head coach look like a smirking clown IMO. What ends this real quick, most teams declare that the rookie wont be the starter from the get go. As a matter of fact its more common than not, so you could have saved a lot of time by not blaming McDermott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tumaro02 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 2 hours ago, CSBill said: It is clear you don't like McDermott. You do, however, raise some interesting points---I do not agree with most of them, but you present a passionate perspective on the situation. The one thing I do agree with you on is the contrast of how McDermott has treated Edmunds versus Allen. As you point out, Edmunds has been the ML starter since his plane touched down in Buffalo. Where they have been extremely cautious with Allen. It is odd, the eagerness with one and the slowness with the other. I actually do like McDermott alot but he seems to think Allen is a 7th rounder and treats him as such. Bringing in a QB coach who has never played QB or coached QB is also strange given that McD is a defensive coach. 1 hour ago, JaxBills said: You have to not follow the team to be that dumb. Fans of the team know that Allen is exactly where the coaches said he would be. It's like saying it disappointing that the team has managed to follow through on it's plan. Wow. So many words. You seem to have an axe to grind, But it still doesn't change the fact that they are carrying through there predetermined plan, regardless of outside voice....so far. And really, your going to compare a rookie QB developing to a linebacker? Lol, no. No, I am comparing McDermott's own words about "earning" reps and wonder what did Edmonds do to earn them. If he did nothing then McD is a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 12 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: He looks better than I expected... everybody knows he wasn’t my favorite on draft day but I’ve come around I didn’t know that. Should I have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tumaro02 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 52 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: No we wouldnt. Especially considering the entire draft process you knew Allen was a project who wasnt anticipated to start day one regardless of where he was drafted. As far as the skepticism, now yes, that's anticipated, but not with blind subjectivity. Allen is low hanging fruit to the media, but at least be responsible in the reports and informative. Instead that reporter was lazy and didnt delve into what's really playing out at Bills camp. What ends this real quick, most teams declare that the rookie wont be the starter from the get go. As a matter of fact its more common than not, so you could have saved a lot of time by not blaming McDermott. Of course that is the point. This is NOT most teams and this is what McD did. This is MY team and while I really like McD, he whiffed on the Allen treatment IMO and apparently lied about "earning" reps when I can't see how Edmonds earned any since he was made starter on day 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 11 hours ago, tumaro02 said: Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold were not treated in this fashion by their head coaches. There's a whole lot of wrong in that weird rant you posted, but this part is the most wrong. Every rookie QB this year is starting as 2nd or 3rd string. Allen actually has the best shot of them all to start week 1. Don't blame McDermott for a Bleacher Report writer's ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 2 hours ago, CSBill said: It is clear you don't like McDermott. You do, however, raise some interesting points---I do not agree with most of them, but you present a passionate perspective on the situation. The one thing I do agree with you on is the contrast of how McDermott has treated Edmunds versus Allen. As you point out, Edmunds has been the ML starter since his plane touched down in Buffalo. Where they have been extremely cautious with Allen. It is odd, the eagerness with one and the slowness with the other. What veteran lb on the roster is arguably preferable to Edmunds as a starter? The more significant factor is simply the demands of the position. Lb and rb are two positions where rookies can typically make an impact. Qb is probably the most demanding, difficult position in any sport. McCarron buys you some time if you need it; hence the different approaches. Also, I don't buy the narrative put forth by the other fella where McDermott is a clown setting Allen up for ridicule. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 (edited) 51 minutes ago, tumaro02 said: I actually do like McDermott alot but he seems to think Allen is a 7th rounder and treats him as such. Bringing in a QB coach who has never played QB or coached QB is also strange given that McD is a defensive coach. No, I am comparing McDermott's own words about "earning" reps and wonder what did Edmonds do to earn them. If he did nothing then McD is a liar. Or one is a QB that EVERYONE was told isn't going to start...and the other is anything other than QB. It's funny to me that you call McD a lier after he's done nothing but follow through on his word. You compare apples to oranges then call the man a liar... Btw, how many inside linebackers are on the roster? Edmunds team mates could tell you what he's done to earn that spot.... But that was earned after he got here. Edited August 5, 2018 by JaxBills 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinnearlysghost88 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 16 hours ago, Dadonkadonk said: It depends on the context. He is a first round QB that has yet to take significant reps from a 5th round 5 INT in one half second year player. I suppose you could call that disappointing. But to those that know, Allen is probably right where he should be. My guess and hope is AJ plays two series in pre-season game 1, Peterman the rest of the first half, and Allen gets the entire second half. Allen lights it up and earns significant 1st and 2nd team reps heading into game 2 and is the 2nd QB to play in game 2. All that said, I can't imagine Allen beating out AJ for the starting job against Baltimore at this point. If he starts in 2018 it will be later in the season. I really don’t think that in the first 10 days of camp the coaches were even going to allow him to take reps away from Peterman. No matter how well he played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Personally I'm thrilled we have a coach in McDermott who possesses enough backbone to not care what fans or the media think about who starts and when. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sven233 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 (edited) Look, there have been a few days that Allen has been the best QB on the practice field. Other days he has not. In order to change that, there really is only 1 thing Allen can do....Play well in Thursday's Preseason game against Carolina. I know he will most likely be with the 3's, but he will almost certainly get most of the 2nd Half. If Allen wants to get a step up in reps, then show well on Thursday and he will earn more opportunities. I get the feeling the coaching staff is going to put a lot of weight on his performance in live action. Even if the balls aren't complete, he needs to make the right decisions and go tot he right places. If WRs drop balls or whatever, he can still prove himself worthy of more if he is putting the ball where it is supposed to go. But make no mistake about it, Thursday is huge for Allen. Edited August 5, 2018 by sven233 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 13 hours ago, tumaro02 said: I blame this whole issue on Sean McDermott. 1. For some reason he felt necessary after Allen was drafted to make it abundantly clear to Bills nation and the entire NFL that Allen 7th overall pick would start as the #3 QB throughout OTAs and minicamp apparently to make clear he had to "earn" his reps. He then simultaneously handed the starting MLB job to Edmunds without earning anything. Diminishing Allen in this manner was not necessary. Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold were not treated in this fashion by their head coaches. He setup Allen as being a "disappointment" by sticking with "his plan" for Allen which I believe was juvenile and flawed. 2. Under the guise of building "foundations" for Allen which apparently include Allen learning how to cross the street, find his locker, hold a clipboard, watch the other 2 QBs lace up their cleats, learn the playbook, etc. was ridiculous. Allen scored the highest in the Wunderlich of all QBs in the Combine. What the #7 was going to learn from McCarron or Peterman could be learned in an hour. 3. McDermott repeatedly stayed the course on his plan for Allen while his "franchise QB" was getting roasted in the local and national media for not progressing up the charts by using his cute "this is a rep chart not a depth chart" comment. McDermott just continues to allow his #7 get roasted while he "smirks" in pressers when local media push him on his plans for Allen. What whole issue? HC McDermott does not need to concern himself with what "reporters" talk and write about. He has a job to do and a plan to accomplish it. As for your bullet points. 1. Having Allen start with the 3's IS his plan. Let's not forget that for the beginning of the offseason the primary job was to install Daboll's new offense. He gave that responsibility to AJM and Peterman and by doing so he gathered info on what kind of QB's they are saving time for Allen to build a foundation. Having a LB move into an established defensive scheme is much easier than throwing a new QB into a new offense that the vets don't even know yet. 2. There is no "guise", the plan is to make sure that Allen has a good foundation. That's the whole point. 3. Staying the course and NOT being swayed by "media" is a good thing and I applaud McDermott for it. We all will see how Allen has progressed Thursday. Most accounts have Josh Allen progressing along well (whether the national media thinks so or not) and isn't that the goal of the offseason. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Just now, ColoradoBills said: What whole issue? HC McDermott does not need to concern himself with what "reporters" talk and write about. He has a job to do and a plan to accomplish it. As for your bullet points. 1. Having Allen start with the 3's IS his plan. Let's not forget that for the beginning of the offseason the primary job was to install Daboll's new offense. He gave that responsibility to AJM and Peterman and by doing so he gathered info on what kind of QB's they are saving time for Allen to build a foundation. Having a LB move into an established defensive scheme is much easier than throwing a new QB into a new offense that the vets don't even know yet. 2. There is no "guise", the plan is to make sure that Allen has a good foundation. That's the whole point. 3. Staying the course and NOT being swayed by "media" is a good thing and I applaud McDermott for it. We all will see how Allen has progressed Thursday. Most accounts have Josh Allen progressing along well (whether the national media thinks so or not) and isn't that the goal of the offseason. The issue is whatever people invent. It's a fan/media circle jerk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 I did enjoy hearing Allen tell the media he doesn't listen to them. That was great....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobblehead Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Edmonds was labeled a starter after the draft because no one was ahead of him. Allen was labeled 3rd string after the draft because 2 people were ahead of him. That simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 8 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: The issue is whatever people invent. It's a fan/media circle jerk. Incredible. As a side note Promo, I was very interested in whether McDermott, Daboll and Culley had it in them to develop a young QB. I'm starting to think that maybe they can. Thursday could be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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