LeGOATski Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 17 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I said it earlier in the thread but this “QB competition” is totally irrelevant. IF anyone but Allen starts at the beginning of the year they are a mere placeholder. It may week 1,it may be a month, it may be more but this isn’t a “competition.” It is a matter of “when is Allen ready to play?” This isn’t a battle to determine the QB of the future; that has already been decided. Besides that, I've been intrigued by the possibility that one of Peterman or McCarron actually becomes a legit starter. Then the Bills would have huge trade capital. It's definitely a competition between those two guys. Who gets to be a starter in the league and who becomes a backup for life. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 10 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I said it earlier in the thread but this “QB competition” is totally irrelevant. IF anyone but Allen starts at the beginning of the year they are a mere placeholder. It may week 1,it may be a month, it may be more but this isn’t a “competition.” It is a matter of “when is Allen ready to play?” This isn’t a battle to determine the QB of the future; that has already been decided. You are citing the critical issue if not the most important issue: When will Allen be ready and what is the best approach for his development? Is it better to error on the side of sooner, and if so will that set him back? Or is it better to error on the side of later and have him better prepared when he does start? What complicates this issue is that our OLwill be mediocre, at least most of us believe that to be the case. In addition, other than McCoy there are few playmakers on offense. It's obvious that our receiver corps is less than sterling. Those deficiencies will make it even more challenging for any starter. My preference is to wait until the rugged first half of the season is over with, allowing him enough time to be comfortable with the playbook. Then when he plays he will be better equipped to handle the job. If it materializes that Allen is demonstrably better than the more experienced qbs right from the start then just start the Cowboy qb and begin the new era with him as the starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, JohnC said: You are citing the critical issue if not the most important issue: When will Allen be ready and what is the best approach for his development? Is it better to error on the side of sooner, and if so will that set him back? Or is it better to error on the side of later and have him better prepared when he does start? What complicates this issue is that our OLwill be mediocre, at least most of us believe that to be the case. In addition, other than McCoy there are few playmakers on offense. It's obvious that our receiver corps is less than sterling. Those deficiencies will make it even more challenging for any starter. My preference is to wait until the rugged first half of the season is over with, allowing him enough time to be comfortable with the playbook. Then when he plays he will be better equipped to handle the job. If it materializes that Allen is demonstrably better than the more experienced qbs right from the start then just start the Cowboy qb and begin the new era with him as the starter. In general, I agree with your thoughts. This certainly isn’t the ideal situation for a young QB. They all develop at a different rate. I was under the impression that Allen would need a redshirt year. I’m not sure that my opinion has changed but I get the sense that the Bills feel differently. They have their plan and as soon as he is ready (whenever it is), he plays. With that being said, I don’t think that there is some magic formula to when a QB should play. We’ve seen young QBs that started from the beginning flourish and we’ve seen guys that sat have success. It is 100% dependent on the player and situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 14 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: In general, I agree with your thoughts. This certainly isn’t the ideal situation for a young QB. They all develop at a different rate. I was under the impression that Allen would need a redshirt year. I’m not sure that my opinion has changed but I get the sense that the Bills feel differently. They have their plan and as soon as he is ready (whenever it is), he plays. With that being said, I don’t think that there is some magic formula to when a QB should play. We’ve seen young QBs that started from the beginning flourish and we’ve seen guys that sat have success. It is 100% dependent on the player and situation. The consensus view was of the top four qb prospects (Baker, Rosen, Darnold and ALLen) Allen was the least ready to play right away. My belief is that Rosen and Baker would be the most ready to start right away. From the standpoint of grasping a pro offense Rosen was probably the best equipped. That is not to say that they wouldn't struggle but they would be more prepared. My opinion is that because McCarron and Peterman are understandably more advanced in reading defenses one of them will get the first starting nod. Their advantage over Allen is that they will better be able to more quickly get rid of the ball. . With our caliber of OL it will become a necessity. The issue I struggle with is: Is it better to throw a rookie qb into the fray and let him learn by doing. Even if he gets brutally pummeled? Or is it better to wait and give the rookie more time to practice and absorb the playbook soon when he gets the opportunity to play he will be better equipped to handle the job. My sense is that Josh Allen is a hard worker and very resilient so that set backs won't linger with him. It's a tough call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 8 minutes ago, JohnC said: The consensus view was of the top four qb prospects (Baker, Rosen, Darnold and ALLen) Allen was the least ready to play right away. My belief is that Rosen and Baker would be the most ready to start right away. From the standpoint of grasping a pro offense Rosen was probably the best equipped. That is not to say that they wouldn't struggle but they would be more prepared. My opinion is that because McCarron and Peterman are understandably more advanced in reading defenses one of them will get the first starting nod. Their advantage over Allen is that they will better be able to more quickly get rid of the ball. . With our caliber of OL it will become a necessity. The issue I struggle with is: Is it better to throw a rookie qb into the fray and let him learn by doing. Even if he gets brutally pummeled? Or is it better to wait and give the rookie more time to practice and absorb the playbook soon when he gets the opportunity to play he will be better equipped to handle the job. My sense is that Josh Allen is a hard worker and very resilient so that set backs won't linger with him. It's a tough call. ....good assessment.....never been a fan of throwing a QB "to the wolves".......think that more bad will come of it versus good..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....good assessment.....never been a fan of throwing a QB "to the wolves".......think that more bad will come of it versus good..... If Allen outplays the other qbs in practice and preseason games he will be the starter on opening day. Then the remaining question will be is who will be the first backup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 47 minutes ago, JohnC said: The consensus view was of the top four qb prospects (Baker, Rosen, Darnold and ALLen) Allen was the least ready to play right away. My belief is that Rosen and Baker would be the most ready to start right away. From the standpoint of grasping a pro offense Rosen was probably the best equipped. That is not to say that they wouldn't struggle but they would be more prepared. My opinion is that because McCarron and Peterman are understandably more advanced in reading defenses one of them will get the first starting nod. Their advantage over Allen is that they will better be able to more quickly get rid of the ball. . With our caliber of OL it will become a necessity. The issue I struggle with is: Is it better to throw a rookie qb into the fray and let him learn by doing. Even if he gets brutally pummeled? Or is it better to wait and give the rookie more time to practice and absorb the playbook soon when he gets the opportunity to play he will be better equipped to handle the job. My sense is that Josh Allen is a hard worker and very resilient so that set backs won't linger with him. It's a tough call. I guess that my entire point with Allen is that what the other guy’s do is irrelevant. If Allen is way better than them throughout camp but still doesn’t look ready, sit him. If he is the worst of the 3 but looks ready, play him. When he is ready, he plays. It may not be this year. That’s fine. It may be week 1, that’s fine too. There is no set plan that you have to follow. It is whatever works best for a team and player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said: I guess that my entire point with Allen is that what the other guy’s do is irrelevant. If Allen is way better than them throughout camp but still doesn’t look ready, sit him. If he is the worst of the 3 but looks ready, play him. When he is ready, he plays. It may not be this year. That’s fine. It may be week 1, that’s fine too. There is no set plan that you have to follow. It is whatever works best for a team and player. It’s not an exact science either. You can look ready and not be ready. And that’s you can look not ready and be ready. That’s why sports are the best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 On 7/26/2018 at 7:24 PM, Doc said: Hey, it wasn't INT'd. That's improvement! Peterman's got a deal going with the defensive players in training camp: "If the ball comes to you, it"s $1000 if you drop it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 57 minutes ago, JohnC said: If Allen outplays the other qbs in practice and preseason games he will be the starter on opening day. Then the remaining question will be is who will be the first backup? ....will be interesting though to see if McD makes that call or not............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 3 hours ago, LeGOATski said: Besides that, I've been intrigued by the possibility that one of Peterman or McCarron actually becomes a legit starter. Then the Bills would have huge trade capital. It's definitely a competition between those two guys. Who gets to be a starter in the league and who becomes a backup for life. This is my hope - find the starter, find the back-up and develop trade capital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 6 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: I said it earlier in the thread but this “QB competition” is totally irrelevant. IF anyone but Allen starts at the beginning of the year they are a mere placeholder. It may week 1, it may be a month, it may be more but this isn’t a “competition.” It is a matter of “when is Allen ready to play?” This isn’t a battle to determine the QB of the future; that has already been decided. RGIII - Kirk Cousins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said: RGIII - Kirk Cousins Yeah and RG played for a few years before Cousins took over. They weren’t throwing t-shirts into the crowd today with “Peterman 2” on the back. If you think that this is a “competition” I have some volcano insurance you might be interested in. The second that the Bills think Allen is ready, he plays. It may not be for a little while but they didn’t trade up to 7 to find Nate Peterman’s backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Yeah and RG played for a few years before Cousins took over. They weren’t throwing t-shirts into the crowd today with “Peterman 2” on the back. If you think that this is a “competition” I have some volcano insurance you might be interested in. The second that the Bills think Allen is ready, he plays. It may not be for a little while but they didn’t trade up to 7 to find Nate Peterman’s backup. Paxton Lynch - Trevor Siemian. Just because they used a high pick on a kid doesn't mean they should have. They bought a complex project with some broken and missing pieces. I've got a garage full of those that never even left the box. Edited July 28, 2018 by BullBuchanan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbills Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 My opinion is that it's delusional to think Allen would start in any way shape or form, this is shaping up to be a winning season, you don't throw a rookie in there and expect to go 10-6. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurpleBull Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: Peterman's "buzz" has died down, so it's pretty much the reverse of how things began. The expectations for Josh Allen were heightened entering minicamp, but it was Peterman who came on strong and at minicamp's end it was him making headlines. The expectations from taking an increased amount of 1st team reps in minicamp has heightened the expectations of Peterman entering training camp and he hasn't met those expectations early on. Keep in mind though that Peterman found his rhythm as minicamp progressed, this is just Day 3 of training camp. Just because Peterman may seem to be losing favor at the moment doesn't mean Peterman's story is at its end. Furthermore, it's been my belief that Peterman makes his strongest impression in preseason when things get a bit more real. This is where I believe an improved Peterman who shows the ability to keep the offense on the field and moving shines through. I still do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 I can copy and paste, too Joe B: 7 observations from 2018 Buffalo Bills training camp - Day 3 1) The Josh Allen Experience- Fans in attendance on Saturday saw to the sincerest form of Josh Allen -- at least the one that he portrayed during his college days. Early on during individual drills, he misfired a few rockets to his receivers that made them work a bit harder than they needed to. However, once it got to team drills, Allen started to shine. His first throw was an on-point slant route in tight coverage that the defensive back barely got a hand on to break it up. Then he read the next play correctly -- a pick play that freed up wideout Kaelin Clay on a wheel route -- and Allen put the perfect touch on the throw to hit Clay in stride, and he quickly ran into the end zone for a touchdown. The very next play, he made a fantastic anticipatory throw to Cam Phillips on a comeback route to the left sideline that was there as soon as the wideout turned. Allen was feeling himself, which is what led to the next part of the Josh Allen Experience. The next play, Allen spotted his target in the end zone on an out route, stared him down -- to which cornerback Ryan Carter baited him and quickly jumped in front for the interception. That play was entirely on Allen. However, his next round of reps was with the first-team and went well. His lone missed attempt went for an interception on paper, but it was on a throw that you'd want your quarterback to try in that situation. Allen threw a jump ball to the 6-foot-5 Kelvin Benjamin, to which most times the receiver will come down with the ball. It was tight coverage and went off his hands not once, but twice, and hung up in the air -- to which Jordan Poyer came over and caught the pass right before it hit the ground. That throw is one that was not made enough over the last three years, so I'm not going to fault him for it. All in all, his day ended 5-of-8 with one touchdown and two interceptions, with only one being his fault. He had the best practice of the group on Saturday and has been the best quarterback at camp thus far. 3) Peterman looks nervous- Training camp is three days old which is enough of a sample size to conclude that Nathan Peterman has not looked like the same player that he was during spring practices. Peterman showed confidence in his arm, touch on his throws, and a deep understanding of the playbook during the spring. In his first three days, Peterman has panicked in the pocket a bit and looks a little nervous to my eye. As a result, his accuracy has suffered, completing only 6-of-14 pass attempts over the last two days. To his credit, he is trying to push the ball down the field. However, sometimes the pocket gets so muddy around him that he gets some happy feet, and it causes his throw to go haywire. It is still incredibly early in the summer of work here, but at this point, Peterman has been the third-best quarterback during training camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) 31 minutes ago, paulbills said: My opinion is that it's delusional to think Allen would start in any way shape or form, this is shaping up to be a winning season, you don't throw a rookie in there and expect to go 10-6. You're right, it's delusional to think that the best a rookie QB would do is go 10-6. Let's look at the 2008 Baltimore Ravens. The previous year they were 5-11. In the off season, they lost Jonathan Ogden from the O line. They had a rookie 1st round QB they traded up for, but he was from a small school (Delaware) and was never expected to start when camp opened. Well, there were some injuries and Joe Flacco ended up starting from opening day one. The team didn't go 10-6, they went 11-5 with the small school rookie QB & made it all the way to the AFC Championship game. Simply put, compared with Peterman & McCarron, Allen gives us the best chance of winning, rookie or not. Edited July 28, 2018 by Albany,n.y. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurpleBull Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 On 7/26/2018 at 11:32 PM, reddogblitz said: Fitz got a 49. Terry Bradshaw couldn't sPell cat of you spotted him a c and a t. we got about 4 or 5 weeks for this to play out. Should be fun. May they best man win. Funny you should mention Fitzpatrick, because of recent Bills' QB's I believe it's Fitzpatrick that Peterman has the chance of mimicking in terms decisiveness and controlling the offense. Fitzpatrick was drafted in round 7 while Bradshaw was drafted 1st overall and threw almost as many interceptions as he did TD's almost every season. Fitzpatrick has made the most of himself considering his limitations. Quietly passed for near 4,000 yards along with 30 TDs as a NYJet and is 3rd all-time in TDs as a Bill despite only playing three full seasons. The coaching staff praises Peterman for his grasp of the offense and I think it's this grasp that could put him over the top. The test clearly doesn't determine a player's career, but there could be something to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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