National Anthem Solution

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

Easy you serve?  If not tell me again how I dont talk with other Service Members or Vets EVERY FREAKING DAY

So what?  Your personal life experiences don't dictate what is majority and minority.

Just now, Augie said:

THAT is the bottom line. I’d fine them to the max if allowed. Hey, you’re at WORK. I’m all for the cause, but do it on your own time. 

Exactly!

[oldmanfan]

The NFL is a business.  The owners of the business have the right to set the expectation they have for their work environment.  And they have done so. Do I agree they have the right to do so?  Absolutely.   Do I agree with their decision? No.  They have taken an ant hill and made it into a mountain because they (like too many in our government and society today) are afraid to stand up to a Chief Executive who wants to be a dictator and has no comprehension of the values and rights that made our country what it is today (and who has to be reminded to cover his heart with his hand by his wife who immigrated here, and for whom I have a great deal of respect).  

 

The compromise, as it stands, seems reasonable.  If players want to protest they can do so by staying in the locker room, and they certainly could protest at other times other than during the anthem. Hold rallies before or after games, for example.  Hold community rallies.  get involved.  I see a lot more of that happening.  But you know what's coming now, don't you?  Players will stand and link arms.  Or they will stand and not remove their helmets.  Or something similar.  And then the owners will have to decide if that behavior is OK or not.  And let's remember, they are not protesting the military, they are protesting violence in the black community.  And while there are mixed views on that (for me it would be nice if you did not commit the crime in the first place that causes the police presence) not one football player that I know of has said they disrespect the military.

 

Meanwhile up in the stands, you have drunks not even listening to the anthem.  If they're even in their seats and not out buying another ridiculously overpriced beer.  Just waiting to get to the end of the song so they can start cheering before it's even over.  Most of the time with their hat still on their head.  And who then want to preach to these players what is patriotic and what is not?  Makes me gag with disgust.

 

For me, when I am at a game I stand for the anthem, and I have taught my kids to do the same.  If I have on a hat, I take it off and cover my heart.  Because I have relatives who were in the military, and that died for our country.  And that deserves our respect.  But do I do so at home, or if I'm in a bar?  No.  Does that make me a hypocrite?  Yep.  Just like so many others who preach false patriotism.

 

Do I think kneeling instead of standing is disrespectful?  Absolutely not.  If you kneel before your Lord in prayer, then kneeling in silence during the playing of our anthem should be just fine.  and I have talked to many members of our military who would say exactly the same thing. 

 

Ultimately this controversy will drag on.  The players union will not stand idly by with this.  They perceive it as a First Amendment issue and while I do not (because of the aforementioned rights of employers, and because players have a host of venues to exercise their First Amendment rights) I respect their right to protest this decision, and to make it part of their next CBA negotiation.  You want to get really ticked about something?  get ticked at a supposed Chief executive, the person who is suppose to be upholding the laws of this nation, saying that just because an NFL player may not agree with his thoughts they should leave the country.  Now THAT, my friends, is something we should all be able to stand up and say:  No.  We will not stand for that.  We threw the King out of here over 200 years ago, and we aren't going to tolerate that in our country.  What a football player does for 1.5 minutes right before a football game isn't a spit in the ocean compared to that kind of constitutional abuse.

 

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, macaroni said:

 

Ya see BBO ... that's where you and I differ ... I see it as an attempt to stifle the message, not solve the problem.

The NFL is ill-equipped to solve racial injustice.  Furthermore, that's not why fans tune in.

[Augie]

Just now, macaroni said:

 

Ya see BBO ... that's where you and I differ ... I see it as an attempt to stifle the message, not solve the problem.

 

I don’t think they want to stifle the message. They gave $90 mil to try to spread the message. There’s a time and a place for everything. When you’re at WORK is not the time. 

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, mrags said:

For one, Brady Quinn is wrong. He wasn’t even old enough in 2001 to know what happened prior to 9/11. 

 

Ive been going to games since much before that and I can tell you the players came out and stood there at the anthem. This was back when people were proud of this country. 

 

Now you have a bunch of Whiney babies that care more about their feelings than the rights of others. 

 

Im sure some of you will attack me for this. I don’t care. Put me on ignore if you haven’t already. You are part of the problem anyway 

First of all. Thank you for your service. 

 

Unfortunatey where you are wrong is that the NFL has mandated that if you are out on the field you will stand for the national anthem. It is their rule and their company. And the players are employees of their company. And if they don’t like it, they can sit in the locker room prior to the anthem or look elsewhere for a new job. I heard the Hamilton Tiget Cats are looking for NFL caliber players nowadays. 

 

Speaking of food ... can you please send me the recipe/directions for making fatties?

[US Egg]

There's plenty of opportunities for players who "need to send a message on TV" and not in the face of Veterans & Police officers, especially those on the field.

 

They can go on Ellen, The View, major network morning programs, 60 Minutes, etc. As many millions will hear there concerns.

 

Of course that might be an inconvenience to them to have to go that route to make their case.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Ifartalot

[MAJBobby]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

So what?  Your personal life experiences don't dictate what is majority and minority.

Exactly!

 

Hey its ok keep up your disrespect to the Military and Fallen with your Drunked up BBQs on Monday and that disrespect up bu telling people how disrespectful this is to the Military even IF the players and the Military say something different. 

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

Hey its ok keep up your disrespect to the Military and Fallen with your Drunked up BBQs on Monday and that disrespect up bu telling people how disrespectful this is to the Military even IF the players and the Military say something different. 

Hey Bob, maybe take a couple of deep breaths and avoid this topic for a while.  I can feel your emotions.  

[MAJBobby]

Want to know what is REALLY disrespectful to us Military. Taking MILLIONS NFL Owners from us to put kn display your false Patriotism 

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

Hey Bob, maybe take a couple of deep breaths and avoid this topic for a while.  I can feel your emotions.  

 

Maybe people should stop Using us as their Pawns in some fight. Maybe when that happens i will be a little calmer 

Edited May 25, 2018 by MAJBobby

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Want to know what is REALLY disrespectful to us Military. Taking MILLIONS NFL Owners from us to put kn display your false Patriotism 

 

Maybe people should stop Using us as their Pawns in some fight. Maybe when that happens i will be a little calmer 

You're not the only vet with an opinion.

[Peace Frog]

1 hour ago, Jeetz1231 said:

I know I am probably in the minority, but I am a veteran of the US military and I don't personally feel like the kneeling is disrespectful to the flag or my brothers and sisters who served and are still serving. If anything it shows the freedoms we have in this country as individuals. The protest is for racial injustice when dealing with police, they are using their right to peaceful protest. I personally would prefer that they stood for the anthem, but at the end of the day we live in a country that gives them the right to kneel for the anthem, and that is what makes this country great.

Abso-freaking-lutely!  I served in the US Navy and I'm not offended by the kneeling.  It's a form of peaceful protest, which is one of the freedoms we have in this country, last time I checked.  To some, the players can only protest in certain ways at certain times.  Well, I say to them, "This is America, protest away."

[mannc]

15 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

Under thar cba they have rights but this isn't one of them. It's gray area and the NFL is wise not to challenge it. It'd be a PR nightmare and the owners have no balls because they just want to make.money. And as long as they make money they don't care one bit, but they hurt last year and now sick of it.

 

But, under the CBA they don't have the ability to protest if the NFL stopped them. The CBA hasn't changed yet the NFL just slapped them silly, so they have no protection. This isn't your common employee/employer relationship. It's contract. 

As you said, it’s a gray area.  I’m not intimately familiar with the CBA so I’m not sure, but it’s possible that the league can’t mandate something like this and that a player who’s fined (or disciplined) could win a grievance.

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

You're not the only vet with an opinion.

 

Maybe read the thread and see what the Vets are saying

[Rico]

My solution is to let them kneel, zoom in on them, and draw clown faces on them with a telestrator. Let’s make it entertaining!

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Maybe read the thread and see what the Vets are saying

So, 3 people? 

 

That's not how this works.

[vorpma]

45 minutes ago, Buffalo86 said:

If people were kneeling in protest of America's treatment of its veterans, they'd enjoy near universal support.  But racial inequality?  "Get the hell out of my country!"  

Your wrong, dead wrong, I too am a veteran and have lost close friends and brothers over the years and know first hand the crappy condition of most VA hospitals and would never consider making it an issue by kneeling at a ballgame. Why is it so hard to comprehend they are working and must follow rules and conditions of employment? If I want politics I will not go to a sporting event to get it, stay home and scroll TBD an can find all kinds of nonsense!

 

[MAJBobby]

12 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

It's amazing what happens when the cameras are removed. 

 

I applaud the NFL's solution because it still allows players who won't stand to protest outside of camera range where it's made into a spectacle.

 

The NFL, whether they want to admit it or not, is taking a hit financially and has acted.  TV ratings are down, largely because fans don't want to watch social justice causes front and center at game time.  People just want to watch football and not be inundated with politics. 

 

And, given that TV ratings are down, advertisers aren't going to pay for commercial time, which means the networks aren't going to pay more for the TV contracts at the next contract negotiations. Which means the NFL may take a loss in revenue...which cannot happen in business. 

 

The players don't care about that...until it's CBA time again.  What happens when the league talks about lowered TV revenue influencing the next CBA?  I'm sure De Smith would argue, but it could be reality if the social justice stuff continues.   

 

The NFL is walking a fine line here trying to appease as many groups as possible.  Unfortunately, they're losing more of their base fans than they'd like and now have to backtrack.

 

PS. I'm a combat veteran. And if they want to kneel then so be it.  Most of them are making millions playing a sport in the most free country in the world protesting against an issue that statistically isn't.

 

Yet ratings down all across TV and the NFLs where actually up this year so you might want to rethink why ratings where “down”

[Green Lightning]

2 hours ago, Jeetz1231 said:

I know I am probably in the minority, but I am a veteran of the US military and I don't personally feel like the kneeling is disrespectful to the flag or my brothers and sisters who served and are still serving. If anything it shows the freedoms we have in this country as individuals. The protest is for racial injustice when dealing with police, they are using their right to peaceful protest. I personally would prefer that they stood for the anthem, but at the end of the day we live in a country that gives them the right to kneel for the anthem, and that is what makes this country great.

If they didn't televise it interest would die quickly. Personally I don't care what millionaire players or celebrities think. You want to kneel, fine. They have that right, and we have a right to protest their protest. Be happy you don't live in Iran, Russia or Venezuela. 

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

So, 3 people? 

 

That's not how this works.

 

Where do you live?  Guessing Buffalo. So Drive up to Ft Drum, poll the 10th Mountain on if they feel disrespected by the kneeling. And get back to me

[boyst]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Yet ratings down all across TV and the NFLs where actually up this year so you might want to rethink why ratings where “down”

Ratings are down. Disguising that with the metrics used hilariously ill contrived.  Approval ratings of the league are tanking, ratings of interest are down. People watch but people don't care.