SouthNYfan Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 54 minutes ago, Dr. Who said: You're going to derail discussion into a polemic about epistemology and apologetics with a quote like that . . . faith is not equivalent to fideism, btw, which seems to be the assumption with those who think faith and reason are like oil and water. This thread is about "faith" in regards to God/Christianity. I'm not derailing anything. Faith in religion/God and reason/logic are absolutely like oil and water. Believing in something without proof, and when objective reasoning says opposite is what "faith" is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 7 minutes ago, Domdab99 said: Those are all things that have some expectation of being or becoming true. I’m obviously talking about religious faith. I have faith in my wife because I know her and have experienced her love and care for me personally. i have faith that the sun will rise in the morning, because there is no evidence that says it won’t. At least, not tomorrow. These are evidence-based examples of faith. not the evidence-less faith that religion is based on. This is not a forum for discussing religion or what constitutes reasonable warrant. If one were to address these issues, one might wish to first of all attempt to discover the best arguments in order to foster genuine dialectic. One might infer certain metaphysical assertions embedded within various perspectives, overtly religious or not. Metaphysics broaches matters of necessity and contingency, for example. Aquinas argued that a rough gesture towards the rationality of belief might begin with a sense that an endless series of contingent causes would never arrive at a necessary source of being. The question why there is something and not nothing remains philosophically legitimate. It is a root question where the answer of religion is at least as reasonable as the ontological faith of the rationalist materialist. 4 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: This thread is about "faith" in regards to God/Christianity. I'm not derailing anything. Faith in religion/God and reason/logic are absolutely like oil and water. Believing in something without proof, and when objective reasoning says opposite is what "faith" is. How does that have anything to do with the Buffalo Bills? I don't find these issues insignificant or uninteresting, but I surmise most folks on this board would find it off-topic. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 "Faith" does not always mean faith is religious terms. It is funny that a country founded by many whose many ancestors left Europe due to religious persecution repeat same thing in new country. Hopefully chaplin they brought in administer help to all faiths like military chaplains do or even just provide guidance when asked by non-believers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 This is a thread that should be in PPP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 14 minutes ago, Dr. Who said: This is not a forum for discussing religion or what constitutes reasonable warrant. If one were to address these issues, one might wish to first of all attempt to discover the best arguments in order to foster genuine dialectic. One might infer certain metaphysical assertions embedded within various perspectives, overtly religious or not. Metaphysics broaches matters of necessity and contingency, for example. Aquinas argued that a rough gesture towards the rationality of belief might begin with a sense that an endless series of contingent causes would never arrive at a necessary source of being. The question why there is something and not nothing remains philosophically legitimate. It is a root question where the answer of religion is at least as reasonable as the ontological faith of the rationalist materialist. How does that have anything to do with the Buffalo Bills? I don't find these issues insignificant or uninteresting, but I surmise most folks on this board would find it off-topic. The thread is literally about whether or not there is a place on McDermott's roster for those who do not have "faith" in regards to Christianity. I'm sorry if bringing up how I feel about "faith" with regards to religion is devoid of reason, and how I feel that it shouldn't have a place in the locker room. Funny how it seems the same people who are completely against Kaepernick, Rosen, etc brining their political views into the locker room are okay with Christianity/faith being brought into the locker room, and against anybody who feels otherwise. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: The thread is literally about whether or not there is a place on McDermott's roster for those who do not have "faith" in regards to Christianity. I'm sorry if bringing up how I feel about "faith" with regards to religion is devoid of reason, and how I feel that it shouldn't have a place in the locker room. Funny how it seems the same people who are completely against Kaepernick, Rosen, etc brining their political views into the locker room are okay with Christianity/faith being brought into the locker room, and against anybody who feels otherwise. It seems that you have an axe to grind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 3 hours ago, eball said: If there is one non-football thing I've noticed about McD it is the emphasis he places on faith when discussing the makeup of the team. I believe he uses the phrase "family, faith, football" frequently which begs the question -- is there a place for a player on this roster who isn't a devout Christian or (perish the thought) is agnostic or an atheist? An aspect unique to sports is the open practice of religion before, during, and after games. Obviously McD can't come out and openly discriminate on the basis of religion but that's not what I'm asking. I don't think this is a silly question and I'm not making fun of anyone -- I'm curious to hear others' thoughts and I wonder if a media member would ever ask him that question (i.e., can a player who doesn't claim religious faith as a cornerstone of his life fit into "the process" with the Buffalo Bills)? I think maybe you're overthinking it a little. Maybe he's talking about faith in the process, or faith in the coaches. Faith is not limited to religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 2 hours ago, Fadingpain said: No, McDermott has made it clear many times in how he speaks that he is devoutly religious. His use of "faith" is the religious meaning, not other more abstract meanings. I understand McD is a devout Christian, and he has that freedom in this country. But to think he imposes those views on his staff or players is plain silly. I believe his motto applies to football culture, and that is it. But feel free to interpret it how you wish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Doug Marrone beatified himself. By all means, let's complain about McDermott's religious beliefs. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 1 minute ago, SouthNYfan said: The thread is literally about whether or not there is a place on McDermott's roster for those who do not have "faith" in regards to Christianity. I'm sorry if bringing up how I feel about "faith" with regards to religion is devoid of reason, and how I feel that it shouldn't have a place in the locker room. Funny how it seems the same people who are completely against Kaepernick, Rosen, etc brining their political views into the locker room are okay with Christianity/faith being brought into the locker room, and against anybody who feels otherwise. What I argued was that there was no credible evidence that McDermott was using a religious criteria for building his roster and that short of something more concrete than the presence of Christians on the roster and the alliterative phrase "faith, family, football," it was unethical and rather irrational to use such a phrase to insinuate sinister implications. Further, I specifically stated that cowing religious dissent would be a bad thing. Nonetheless, I think one ought to distinguish that kind of discussion from general questions of religious verity or investigations into what constitutes rationality or an acceptable epistemological criteria. To sweep all that into a discussion of McDermott's locker room is clearly outside the bounds of what this particular forum addresses. I do not believe I have accused you of irrationality, nor have I said anything about Kaepernick. Before the draft, I explicitly stated my concerns with Rosen's durability and I do feel his personality may be an issue. I never argued he should not be chosen because of differences in ideology. Indeed, I abjured such a criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieroscoe Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 It may not be “required” but based on who is on this team it is favored and part of the process, you can’t deny it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 God has nothing to do with football. If he did every game would end in a tie. No losers. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: God has nothing to do with football. If he did every game would end in a tie. No losers. Yeah, just like the Jews and the Babylonians... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 15 minutes ago, ronnieroscoe said: It may not be “required” but based on who is on this team it is favored and part of the process, you can’t deny it Prove your assertion with evidence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misterbluesky Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 3 hours ago, eball said: If there is one non-football thing I've noticed about McD it is the emphasis he places on faith when discussing the makeup of the team. I believe he uses the phrase "family, faith, football" frequently which begs the question -- is there a place for a player on this roster who isn't a devout Christian or (perish the thought) is agnostic or an atheist? An aspect unique to sports is the open practice of religion before, during, and after games. Obviously McD can't come out and openly discriminate on the basis of religion but that's not what I'm asking. I don't think this is a silly question and I'm not making fun of anyone -- I'm curious to hear others' thoughts and I wonder if a media member would ever ask him that question (i.e., can a player who doesn't claim religious faith as a cornerstone of his life fit into "the process" with the Buffalo Bills)? I think he has deep respect for the definition of the word respect.It's not a religious "thing"...more on the avenue of treating the people that surround you the way you want them to treat you. He's not a "me" guy,that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 41 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said: This is a thread that should be in PPP Sadly, it’s getting close, but it doesn’t have to be. Exercise judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 21 minutes ago, ronnieroscoe said: It may not be “required” but based on who is on this team it is favored and part of the process, you can’t deny it The quote from Matthews suggests otherwise. https://www.google.com/amp/amp.si.com/nfl/2017/12/01/buffalo-bills-sean-mcdermott-team-building-through-storytelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig1Hunter Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 1 hour ago, SouthNYfan said: "Tell a devout Christian that his wife is cheating on him, or that frozen yogurt can make a man invisible, and he is likely to require as much evidence as anyone else, and to be persuaded only to the extent that you give it. Tell him that the book he keeps by his bed was written by an invisible deity who will punish him with fire for eternity if he fails to accept its every incredible claim about the universe, and he seems to require no evidence what so ever." -Sam Harris Not sure why you decided to use this thread to dump on Christianity, but Mr. Harris (and you, by proxy) obviously has no idea what Christianity is about. Might as well stand on the rooftops and shout your ignorance. Would have a similar effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pennstate10 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Fact. Satan played forward for the Sabres in the 1990s. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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