Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Just now, Happy Gilmore said: This is a great point. Another poster pointed out that Zay started earlier than intended due to how thin the Bills were at the WR position. It's actually IMO a highly relevant point. Zay was a high pick, and you want those guys to be starters fairly quickly, but you'd normally expect him to be the #3 or the situational guy and work his way up, instead of being thrust into the limelight and left there no matter what due to no alternatives. We've got a known developmental prospect at QB, and no proven starter above him. I think it's a legit concern whether these Bills coaches will let him develop as he needs, or thrust him in before he is ready because of this. I am really pulling for AJ McC to do well so that our coaches feel like it's a choice to play Allen when he's ready, and not before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfanAZ Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 22 minutes ago, buffalover4life said: Im talking about ball velocity. Not ability to throw the deep ball. I know 10 people that can throw the ball 50 yards. I liked Tyrod but he did not have an upper tier arm. Its not how far you throw it but the angle at which the ball is going to its target. Josh Allens, Staffords, Rodgers, Mayfields deep balls go on a trajectory that the ball gets there sooner, while arms like tyrod and Ryan Fitzpatrick have to put significantly more air under it so the ball is in the air longer. Which brings me back to the point, Zay wont have time to overthink the catch I think you make a good point. Even if we are just talking about 20-30 yard passes down the field, it seemed Taylor needed a bigger window to throw it into than his WR's could provide. Then when he had WR's open, he sometimes didnt see them. From watching Allen's game tapes it looks like he has no problem seeing guys or trying to fit it into tight windows. That might get him in trouble more often in the NFL but he will make some throws that a lot of guys cant make....especially when he is on the move. If Wyoming WR's can catch Allens balls, the Bills WR's should have no issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: This is a great point. Another poster pointed out that Zay started earlier than intended due to how thin the Bills were at the WR position. They drafted him with the intention of starting him opposite Watkins............so no he didn't start earlier than intended..........what they didn't intend was for a seemingly pro-ready son of a former NFL player to play so stunningly poorly. Do people actually think that the Bills hoped Andre Holmes was going to be the #2 WR? Really? Edited May 2, 2018 by BADOLBILZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 36 minutes ago, mileena said: This is patently incorrect. Eric Moulds was living under Andre Reed's shadow his first two years. Barring injury, WR's are either a star their first year or not, unlike QB. Cases in point: Jerry Butler, Jerry Rice, and Sammy Watkins: http://www.nfl.com/player/jerrybutler/2510828/profile https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RiceJe00.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatkSa00.htm Zay Jones is a bust, period. Did you watch Mould play his first 2 yrs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 33 minutes ago, HappyDays said: People overstate how good he was in college. Most of his production came on screens and quick short passes. I don't think he had to track the ball much at ECU. It's a real concern. I think this will be one of the biggest benefits of Daboll. His most recent stint was in college, so he is very familiar with how to dial back the offense enough to maximize the production of some one still learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 3 hours ago, H2o said: Imo, Tyrod threw a pretty catchable ball. He knew when to sling it and put some touch on his passes. Was he the greatest? No. The reason I bring this up is because of ZJ and his dropped passes last year. Josh Allen rips the ball on a lot of occasions. How will that affect ZJ? I hope he gets it together and his stone hands can be remedied, but one has to wonder. I agree with you on Tyrod. But, i have been watching Allen's game tape (posted by Domdb99- https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/205411-josh-allen-game-film-links/) and I have to say that Allen has a much better touch on the ball than I would have thought. Yes, he can rifle it. But, he often floated it when necessary. It should also be noted that he was playing with a less-than-stellar receiving corp in Wyoming. So, this will all be on Zay. Sad that we're hoping our current #2 can develop into a decent #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 2 hours ago, What a Tuel said: That's a random qualifier. Thompson barely did better and in Chicago he had Mike Glennon throwing to him. Which is the point. These WRs will do better with better QBs throwing to them. That isn't really arguable. How many Bills WR's have left the team to do better with other QBs? Woods? Goodwin? Hogan? Can we go back to this for a second? In 4 games with Mike Glennon, he had 11 catches for 125 yards and 1 TD. In his first 4 games with Tyrod he had 13 catches for 203 yards and 1 TD. Heck, he was 18 yards shy of his yard total on the season in his first appearance for the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 57 minutes ago, mileena said: This is patently incorrect. Eric Moulds was living under Andre Reed's shadow his first two years. Barring injury, WR's are either a star their first year or not, unlike QB. Cases in point: Jerry Butler, Jerry Rice, and Sammy Watkins: http://www.nfl.com/player/jerrybutler/2510828/profile https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RiceJe00.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatkSa00.htm Zay Jones is a bust, period. Took till Wednesday morning, but we’re in worst post of the week territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 20 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: They drafted him with the intention of starting him opposite Watkins............so no he didn't start earlier than intended..........what they didn't intend was for a seemingly pro-ready son of a former NFL player to play so stunningly poorly. Do people actually think that the Bills hoped Andre Holmes was going to be the #2 WR? Really? I think they were expecting #2 to be Jordan Matthews, who led the Iggles WR for yardage in 2016. I believe they were expecting Jones to contribute, but in any event... ...even if they did as you say intend him to start #2 opposite Watkins, then what happens when you trade Watkins away? He was asked to play a larger role on the field than was planned during the spring due to trades and injuries at WR, that seems pretty clear. And yes, of course they were expecting him to step up in the role, not to falter, but that happens with rookies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think they were expecting #2 to be Jordan Matthews, who led the Iggles WR for yardage in 2016. I believe they were expecting Jones to contribute, but in any event... ...even if they did as you say intend him to start #2 opposite Watkins, then what happens when you trade Watkins away? He was asked to play a larger role on the field than was planned during the spring due to trades and injuries at WR, that seems pretty clear. And yes, of course they were expecting him to step up in the role, not to falter, but that happens with rookies. Watkins was gone when we acquired Matthews. He was supposed to be a replacement. But he was 4th string on Philly by that point and him being a #1 in 2016 was a big reason why Wentz needed upgraded weapons that offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 This actually worries me a bit... im not sure if Zay can catch a ball from Allen... he struggled catching TTs ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Just now, ScottLaw said: I'm not worried. If Zay has another bad year it will actually force these guys to go out and prioritize the position. Something they should still do even if Zay has a bounce back season. 100% should be a priority through MC, TC and preseason through next year upgrade the WR position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 1 hour ago, mileena said: This is patently incorrect. Eric Moulds was living under Andre Reed's shadow his first two years. Barring injury, WR's are either a star their first year or not, unlike QB. Cases in point: Jerry Butler, Jerry Rice, and Sammy Watkins: http://www.nfl.com/player/jerrybutler/2510828/profile https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RiceJe00.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatkSa00.htm Zay Jones is a bust, period. I guess the good good news is K Benjamin is a star? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 3 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Sammy's best year as a pro was with Tyrod. He would have to have had another year of being healthy, but nice try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 55 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: They drafted him with the intention of starting him opposite Watkins............so no he didn't start earlier than intended..........what they didn't intend was for a seemingly pro-ready son of a former NFL player to play so stunningly poorly. Do people actually think that the Bills hoped Andre Holmes was going to be the #2 WR? Really? Given what he did in Oakland, stepping up to the #2 role is not an unreasonable expectation. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HolmAn00.htm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 22 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think they were expecting #2 to be Jordan Matthews, who led the Iggles WR for yardage in 2016. I believe they were expecting Jones to contribute, but in any event... ...even if they did as you say intend him to start #2 opposite Watkins, then what happens when you trade Watkins away? He was asked to play a larger role on the field than was planned during the spring due to trades and injuries at WR, that seems pretty clear. And yes, of course they were expecting him to step up in the role, not to falter, but that happens with rookies. You've forgotten the order of things.............Matthews and Watkins trades went down at the same time............immediately following the Bills first preseason game in mid-August..........Matthews wasn't ever on the roster with Watkins. About 3 and a half months earlier Zay Jones was drafted........at which point the depth chart was WR1 Watkins and WR2 Andre Holmes..........which like I said was laughable since Holmes had basically been a reserve special teamer for a couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 3 hours ago, QB Bills said: Dropped everything in sight. Ran the wrong route in Carolina and single-handedly cost the team a win. Then, the offseason stuff.. Only way to go is up. He was a rookie and lots of rookie receivers struggle. I don’t KNOW that he will improve, but it won’t surprise me if he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 12 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: He would have to have had another year of being healthy, but nice try. Try harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: Given what he did in Oakland, stepping up to the #2 role is not an unreasonable expectation. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HolmAn00.htm This is like the people trying to sell Rod Streater as a legit top 3 WR option this year because he had one decent season 5 years ago. Andre Holmes one decent season was more recent........why are we ruling him out as the #2? Oh yeah because we saw him and are aware that he is a marginal NFL player let alone a guy you want facing another teams top DB's. The NFL is about matchups folks..........you can't just march any WR out there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) I don't think Tyrod's passes were all that catchable as they too often required the WR to contort himself into awkward positions to try to get their hands on a pass that was off target. I recall Sammy Watkins injured himself on a TD pass he caught that was low and behind him and in an awkward spot (so close to his legs he couldn't extend but had to twist). Edited May 2, 2018 by Mickey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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