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Rumor: Trade up discussion with Giants


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3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

My big thing is, we finally got the drought monkey off our backs. That crap is DONE. If we slide a little this year getting a rookie up to speed and re-tooling the D, then so be it. They bought themselves some rope with the playoffs last year.

 

If we hadn't made the playoffs last year, can't imagine the pressure that would've been placed on one of these rookie QB's to end an 18 year playoff drought.  

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6 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

More and more I’m wanting them to stay at 12 and take Jackson. There’s no reason he can’t be as good of a WB as any of the other QBs in this draft.

Sure there is, and that reason is his accuracy when facing real defenses on a football field in pads. 

 

We always talk about completion percentage, but completion percentage can be fixed or reflect positively/negatively on system and teammates. Watching a qb throw inaccurately, however, cannot be fixed as easily. And when I SEE a qb as inaccurate as Allen or Jackson, no amount of citing historical COMPLETION PERCENTAGES will change the way I feel. Only improved mechanics and accuracy can, and that literally never happens. 

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Just now, billykay said:

Lets say we move to #2. Does anyone think that it would be a good trade for us to move back to #3, especially if it seems that the Jets are panicking that they won't be getting their man? I think that we could wind up this way with our QB, perhaps Mayfield or Rosen, plus getting back some of the draft assets we lost in moving up to #2.

 

If we get to 2, and I was GM, I would unplug the phone and celebrate. I would not entertain offers to move down.

 

Who cares about the Jets. Let them do what they want, and we guarantee to get our top (or second) QB. We get Rosen or Darnold with no sweat or worry that they are gone. 

 

I wamt #2 badly, and I hipe this rumor comes to fruition.

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I just don’t think a trade up in front of the Jets is doable. Cleveland EARNED the 1st overall, so they Have to use it. The last time NYG picked this early, they selected Phillip Rivers -who turned into Eli. They didn’t need a QB at the time but said ‘we have no intention of drafting this high again’, so QB is the pick. I see them doing the same this year. I think we use #12 for BPA on our Board, then quickly trade #22 and other picks to move up and take Mayfield or Rudolf, both of which I believe will still be available 13-15.

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1 minute ago, BuffaloRebound said:

 

If we hadn't made the playoffs last year, can't imagine the pressure that would've been placed on one of these rookie QB's to end an 18 year playoff drought.  

I was just going to say the same. At least when our guy is drafted that’s not the first thing he hears about, and he’s a actually going to a playoff team regardless of how good that team actually was. Big perception difference for a new QB.

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7 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I do think that is a plausible alternative strategy.  I am assuming Darnold and Rosen will be gone, but it's possible any one of Mayfield, Allen, or Jackson will be there.  If Mayfield drops past five, you could make a smaller deal to move up and grab him or wait for Jackson at twelve (I think he will be there.)

   If Mayfield is there at 12 you take him and I am a guy who is strongly pushing for MLB for our top choice.

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7 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

First, a king's ransom has nothing to do with fair market value since by definition, a ransom paid for holding a king hostage...and in this case, the #2 spot...my point was that the #2 spot cost is apparently quite similar to that of the 1st spot and so if I'm going to make that trade, I go to #1 with no quibbles over whether I get the guy I want...I know I'm on the clock already and get whomever I'd like....also, IMHO it is over priced based on what Eagles gave up for Wentz:

 

From ESPN when trade was made: "The Eagles sent five draft picks to the Browns: the No. 8 pick in the first round, a third-round pick (77th overall) and a fourth-round pick (100th overall) in this year's draft, a first-round pick in 2017 and a second-round pick in 2018. Cleveland also sends a fourth-round pick in 2017 to the Eagles." 

 

2016: 8th overall

            3rd Round pick

           4th Round pick

2017: 1st round pick

2018: 2nd round pick

 

Also received a 4th round pick from Cleveland along with #2 overall.

In the cited scenario for the Bills: 2018: 2 1st round picks in this year - making it far more valuable than giving up a 1st next year, a 2nd and 3rd round THIS year, making them far more valuable than a 2nd round pick two years later and ANOTHER 2nd round pick in 2019, and this is the price that drives it over the top. 

 

Personally, if they're going to do it, the two 1st, one 2nd this year, and a 1st next year should be it. Next year the Bills will have about $100 million in Cap space, so they can afford to use FA as the main way to acquire talent. But this year, all the positions of need for the Bills are deep: DT / LB / QB (of course) / RB and they should be using that to their advantage, not giving really good, cheap players on Rookie contracts in a year when they're very close to expending all the money they have. 

 

Think of it what you will....but I'm done with this conversation.

 

 

If the Browns were still being run by a lawyer, the price the Eagles paid may still have some relevance. 

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4 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

I just don’t think a trade up in front of the Jets is doable. Cleveland EARNED the 1st overall, so they Have to use it. The last time NYG picked this early, they selected Phillip Rivers -who turned into Eli. They didn’t need a QB at the time but said ‘we have no intention of drafting this high again’, so QB is the pick. I see them doing the same this year. I think we use #12 for BPA on our Board, then quickly trade #22 and other picks to move up and take Mayfield or Rudolf, both of which I believe will still be available 13-15.

I understand your reasoning with the Gmen.  That is how I would think about it, but a large number of analysts seem to think the Giants are not going to take a qb, so I believe #2 is probably available for the right price.  I don't think we are going BPA at twelve.  We will take the qb and trade up from #22 if there is someone at lb we really covet.  I think it's just as likely we make a small jump from twelve to secure Mayfield, for instance.

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53 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

More and more I’m wanting them to stay at 12 and take Jackson. There’s no reason he can’t be as good of a QB as any of the other QBs in this draft.

 

You're not alone.  I think it will be Rudolph at 12, but I think when its all said and done, they stay at 12.  Way too many holes and I don't think in 2 or 3 years, there will be a big difference between the QB selected at 2 and the QB selected at 12.  Our own Hall of Fame QB Jim Kelly was selected 14th:

 

Quote

    

SEL #

TEAM

PLAYER

POSITION

1

Baltimore Colts

John Elway

QB

2

Los Angeles Rams

Eric Dickerson

RB

3

Seattle Seahawks

Curt Warner

RB

4

Denver Broncos

Chris Hinton

G

5

San Diego Chargers

Billy Ray Smith Jr.

LB

6

Chicago Bears

Jim Covert

T

7

Kansas City Chiefs

Todd Blackledge

QB

8

Philadelphia Eagles

Michael Haddix

RB

9

Houston Oilers

Bruce Matthews

OG

10

New York Giants

Terry Kinard

DB

11

Green Bay Packers

Tim Lewis

DB

12

Buffalo Bills

Tony Hunter

TE

13

Detroit Lions

James Jones

RB

14

Buffalo Bills

Jim Kelly

QB

15

New England Patriots

Tony Eason

QB

16

Atlanta Falcons

Mike Pitts

DT

17

St. Louis Cardinals

Leonard Smith

DB

18

Chicago Bears

Willie Gault

WR

19

Minnesota Vikings

Joey Browner

DB

20

San Diego Chargers

Gary Anderson

RB

21

Pittsburgh Steelers

Gabe Rivera

NT

22

San Diego Chargers

Gill Byrd

DB

23

Dallas Cowboys

Jim Jeffcoat

DE

24

New York Jets

Ken O'Brien

QB

25

Cincinnati Bengals

Dave Rimington

C

26

Los Angeles Raiders

Don Mosebar

C

27

Miami Dolphins

Dan Marino

QB

28

Washington Redskins

Darrell Green

DB

                                                                                                                                                                          

 

Edited by PIZ
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I don't like the idea of moving up and the cost in this year's draft picks, to be clear. People say it can't happen as well because the GMen wouldn't do it.

But I can easily see #12/#22/2019 #1 and 2020 #1 being incredibly interesting to any GM. With 2, #1 picks for three years in a row, the Giants position themselves to annually completely remake their squad as they see fit. 

And it leaves the Bills with all the rest of their draft capital for this year to get something like Will Hernandez, or Isiah Wynn, or Kolten Miller, or Frank Ragnow and then a WR like Sutton, or Chalk. 

Bang. Surrounded what you would hope would be Darnold with a third, great lineman, Shady and a great WR along with KJ. Not my idea of heaven, but you can make it work. 

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What happens if you fade away all those picks and AJ beats out the rookie and is the franchise QB with the rookie being another pretender? 

 

Everyone will complain and want blood.

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Just now, Yav said:

What happens if you fade away all those picks and AJ beats out the rookie and is the franchise QB with the rookie being another pretender? 

 

Everyone will complain and want blood.

 

To me that is a good problem to have. You trade the young guy and get what you can. 

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12 minutes ago, PIZ said:

 

You're not alone.  I think it will be Rudolph at 12, but I think when its all said and done, they stay at 12.  Way too many holes and I don't think in 2 or 3 years, there will be a big difference between the QB selected at 2 and the QB selected at 12.  Our own Hall of Fame QB Jim Kelly was selected 14th:

 

 

 

 

I consistently disagree with most everything you say.

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2 minutes ago, PIZ said:

 

You're not alone.  I think it will be Rudolph at 12, but I think when its all said and done, they stay at 12.  Way too many holes and I don't think in 2 or 3 years, there will be a big difference between the QB selected at 2 and the QB selected at 12.  Our own Hall of Fame QB Jim Kelly was selected 14th:

 

 

You have wildly overvalued Rudolph.

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