GunnerBill Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 29 minutes ago, kdiggz said: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0ap3000000919056/Mason-Rudolph-2018-NFL-Scouting-Combine-workout Watch his drop back. Even the less informed observers can see that he looks like a fish out of water trying to drop back and throw timing routes. Ideal size but below average arm strength, athleticism, hand size, and played in a bs college offense. There's no way he's worth a 1st or a 2nd Jared Goff couldn't drop back 2 years ago either. He looked pretty good this year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) 33 minutes ago, kdiggz said: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0ap3000000919056/Mason-Rudolph-2018-NFL-Scouting-Combine-workout Watch his drop back. Even the less informed observers can see that he looks like a fish out of water trying to drop back and throw timing routes. Ideal size but below average arm strength, athleticism, hand size, and played in a bs college offense. There's no way he's worth a 1st or a 2nd I dunno about "fish out of water" but I liked Jackson's footwork more than I expected and Rudolph's footwork less than I expected. But I think that can be learned. Keep in mind Rudolph was rehabbing a foot injury and couldn't work on his drops as much as the other guys. What I struggled with - maybe you can help me - is figuring out if some throws that were "off" were on MR or on the WR. There are ~12 throws (they showed many more throws for Allen and for Jackson than for Mayfield, Rosen, or Rudolph). 5 or 6 of them are nice throws. 2 of them are clearly off. 4 or 5 did not result in a catch. The bottom line is, the ball wound up in the WR hands less than the "top prospects" but I can't decide if it's 'cuz the throw was off or because WR didn't get to where he was supposed to get to. After watching other workouts to suss out what the routes were supposed to be, I decided it was about 50/50 - a couple off target but catchable, a couple the WR just didn't complete the route. Edited March 9, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Jared Goff couldn't drop back 2 years ago either. He looked pretty good this year. It's all a crapshoot. Unless the guy "goes full on Peterman" I'm willing to give whatever young guy we get a bit to work it out. Heck I'm even willing to give Peterman a bit to work it out... Just far far away from the actual playing field ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 On 2018-03-05 at 2:19 AM, Zerovotlz said: .....I'm trolling, but ....you could have had that combo at 10 last year.....(Pat Mahomes) Mahomes is going to be a phenomenal bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 39 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I dunno about "fish out of water" but I liked Jackson's footwork more than I expected and Rudolph's footwork less than I expected. But I think that can be learned. Keep in mind Rudolph was rehabbing a foot injury and couldn't work on his drops as much as the other guys. What I struggled with - maybe you can help me - is figuring out if some throws that were "off" were on MR or on the WR. There are ~12 throws (they showed many more throws for Allen and for Jackson than for Mayfield, Rosen, or Rudolph). 5 or 6 of them are nice throws. 2 of them are clearly off. 4 or 5 did not result in a catch. The bottom line is, the ball wound up in the WR hands less than the "top prospects" but I can't decide if it's 'cuz the throw was off or because WR didn't get to where he was supposed to get to. After watching other workouts to suss out what the routes were supposed to be, I decided it was about 50/50 - a couple off target but catchable, a couple the WR just didn't complete the route. I'm not as concerned with having perfect timing with the WR as I am with having proper footwork and good form in the drop back. I wish I could slow it down to show it but Rudolph cant seem to figure out how to get his upper body and lower body to work together. It looks very sloppy and uncoordinated. When the back foot plants on the 3rd step he should be well balanced, ball high, and ready to transfer his motion and deliver a strike. What he's doing is he's leaning back, planting, then his upper body keeps going back and he ends up dipping his back shoulder which then throws his balance and accuracy way off. It's very alarming. He's going to be like Cardale Jones in that he's a very long term project so don't draft him unless you are willing to put in 2-3 years of work. We aren't in a position to do so imo. We need a starting QB. If we traded for Foles and then we could maybe get Rudolph in the 3rd then maybe. Round 1 or 2, no chance 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 Josh Allen Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Rosen will bust big time. He is not even in my top 8 QB’s I would not touch him with10 foot pole. Mason Rudolph will be a very good NFL QB. He checks all the boxes 12 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said: Mahomes is going to be a phenomenal bust. you are so wrong on Mahomes it’s not even funny. The guy is going to be a stud. Franchise QB for sure 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 On 3/5/2018 at 2:19 AM, Zerovotlz said: .....I'm trolling, but ....you could have had that combo at 10 last year.....(Pat Mahomes) Mahomes doesn't have Jackson's athleticism/speed, Mayfield's moxie, or Rosen's brain. He's a talented prospect, but let's not pretend he's a "can't miss", Superman prospect. He's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 On 3/5/2018 at 4:35 AM, horned dogs said: I'm in the trade up and target Josh Rosen crowd. Plan B is Baker Mayfield or Sam Darnold. It's gotta be one of these 3. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 1 hour ago, kdiggz said: I'm not as concerned with having perfect timing with the WR as I am with having proper footwork and good form in the drop back. I wish I could slow it down to show it but Rudolph cant seem to figure out how to get his upper body and lower body to work together. It looks very sloppy and uncoordinated. When the back foot plants on the 3rd step he should be well balanced, ball high, and ready to transfer his motion and deliver a strike. What he's doing is he's leaning back, planting, then his upper body keeps going back and he ends up dipping his back shoulder which then throws his balance and accuracy way off. It's very alarming. He's going to be like Cardale Jones in that he's a very long term project so don't draft him unless you are willing to put in 2-3 years of work. We aren't in a position to do so imo. We need a starting QB. If we traded for Foles and then we could maybe get Rudolph in the 3rd then maybe. Round 1 or 2, no chance This is a great post. I'm with you here. My biggest problem is that Rudolph has all of those issues stated plus a weak arm and small hands. Cardale was a 4th round lottery ticket with a huge arm. Rudolph is a lottery ticket without the physical ability. I don't understand why people think he would be the answer for us. I see Bryce Petty and someone said Landry Jones, which is about where I think this guy is potential wise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, kdiggz said: I'm not as concerned with having perfect timing with the WR as I am with having proper footwork and good form in the drop back. I wish I could slow it down to show it but Rudolph cant seem to figure out how to get his upper body and lower body to work together. It looks very sloppy and uncoordinated. When the back foot plants on the 3rd step he should be well balanced, ball high, and ready to transfer his motion and deliver a strike. What he's doing is he's leaning back, planting, then his upper body keeps going back and he ends up dipping his back shoulder which then throws his balance and accuracy way off. It's very alarming. He's going to be like Cardale Jones in that he's a very long term project so don't draft him unless you are willing to put in 2-3 years of work. We aren't in a position to do so imo. We need a starting QB. If we traded for Foles and then we could maybe get Rudolph in the 3rd then maybe. Round 1 or 2, no chance What concerns me isn't whether or not he has perfect timing, as whether the ball is going yards off where it should/he intends it to go. That's a worry for me because in college, I saw a lot of deep throws to WR who were wide open and able to help him out and come back for the ball. Those throws will be gone in the NFL. As I recall, he didn't play under center very much, so not much experience with drop backs, and with an injured foot not much time to work on it either. From under center in college games (relatively rare) Jackson also looked extremely awkward - I'm not sure so much the throwing motion, but he and his WR just didn't seem on the same page with this timing business. Jackson was much improved at the combine, he's been working on it, clearly. Can you link the motion problems to the throws I question vs the ones which are clearly nice throws in the combine workout? And can you tell if he does the same thing before throwing when playing from his usual place, the shotgun? Edited March 9, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 3 hours ago, HappyDays said: Cian Fahey broke him down in this Twitter thread. He's his top QB prospect this year: Something I didn't know is Rudolph is the only QB that checks off all 7 Parcells rules for QBs. Jackson hit 4/7, Allen/Rosen 3/7, and Darnold 2/7. Rudolph has flown under the radar for me but he's jumped up my informal rankings a bit. Tim Tebow checked all 7 of Parcells' list with flying colors. It's a stupid list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 3 hours ago, HappyDays said: Cian Fahey broke him down in this Twitter thread. He's his top QB prospect this year: Something I didn't know is Rudolph is the only QB that checks off all 7 Parcells rules for QBs. Jackson hit 4/7, Allen/Rosen 3/7, and Darnold 2/7. Rudolph has flown under the radar for me but he's jumped up my informal rankings a bit. Good stuff... thanks for this Hap. I've been moving guys around with who I want most, but Rudolph is the guy my gut wanted 2nd most as the season ended before I really started diving into everything. Mayfield was #1, and still is. I'd be super excited about Rudolph at #21. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Good stuff... thanks for this Hap. I've been moving guys around with who I want most, but Rudolph is the guy my gut wanted 2nd most as the season ended before I really started diving into everything. Mayfield was #1, and still is. I'd be super excited about Rudolph at #21. Yikes! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: Yikes! Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: Yep. Woof 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4BillsintheBurgh Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) I like him because for the most part he's not stupid with the ball. The times when his wr's help him out, at least to me, is more about where the ball is placed than about their ability. He was able to give those guys a chance. I don't like how there are times he seems to lose his footwork and hitting the little loop-de-doo passes he did in college won't happen in the nfl. Like I said in the other thread, let's just take two qb's at 21 and 22 and let them battle it out behind tyrod. Maybe Rudolph and Jackson. Less pressure on them to be the man right out of the gate, and if neither can get it done to our satisfaction we can get a veteran guy next off season and draft someone else. Edited March 9, 2018 by 4BillsintheBurgh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said: I like him because for the most part he's not stupid with the ball. The times when his wr's help him out, at least to me, is more about where the ball is placed than about their ability. He was able to give those guys a chance. I don't like how there are times he seems to lose his footwork and hitting the little loop-de-doo passes he did in college won't happen in the nfl. Like I said in the other thread, let's just take two qb's at 21 and 22 and let them battle it out behind tyrod. Maybe Rudolph and Jackson. Less pressure on them to be the man right out of the gate, and if neither can get it done to our satisfaction we can get a veteran guy next off season and draft someone else. Terrible idea and Rudolph is not a 1st round talent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Terrible idea and Rudolph is not a 1st round talent. I heard he's been slumming with EJ Manuel and learning how to get taken way ahead of actual value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Yikes! 11 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: Yep. Wow... tough crowd. The guy has the size, ability, intangibles/leadership and production. Don't know what's not to like about him. I sure as hell don't want to see us trade up for him. And I really won't be upset if we pass on him. But what about him do you dislike so much? On the flip side, I'll break my TV if we draft Allen. Edited March 9, 2018 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 18 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Yikes! I personally wouldn't touch Rudolph until #22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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