Knicks&Bills Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 35 minutes ago, Meazy26 said: You must be in the “shut up and dribble” camp... You must be in the i take my cues from dumb jocks and late night tv comedians camp... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Lurker said: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000849517/article/nfl-nflpa-respond-to-president-trumps-anthem-comments 2 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said: Trump is butt hurt from the $3 USFL settlement.... ok .. you guys win. i am sorry. i am actually influenced now.. thanks 2 minutes ago, BillsFan2313 said: That's OK, let me know if you have any questions. just one. can you explain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knicks&Bills Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 31 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said: Yes, seriously. We all make a statement when we stand for the National Anthem. Does that not fit your narrative? Um no actually that’s bs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Knicks&Bills said: Um no actually that’s bs Then, I assume, it doesn't phase you in the slightest when someone kneels during the anthem, if standing is meaningless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 40 minutes ago, White Linen said: Yeah, I don't know and I didn't do enough research to see if hard numbers had been studied. I think the loss of viewership was real though and it appears attendance was down. There had to have been some financial effect. As you mention, did it necessarily rise to the level of significantly effecting the billionaire owners? Probably not but it may have effected retailers and folks that own parking places, etc. Folks like that. I think it got to the level of at least - this isn't good and could potentially be a problem for real. Kim is an owner and she feels like it's a conversation that needs to be had - so I guess there's that too. I am sure there was “some effect”. But I doubt it’s largley to the degree people are claiming, if even measurable. I don’t know anybody and Dave in Philly has 4 generations of family and his 3 best friends currently boycotting. It’s all anecdotal. Reasons why people aren’t tuning in in order: -Over saturated. Sunday, Monday, Thursday, all season. -Lack of access. NFL network and ESPN. -Diminished product. I understand losing contact practices. It’s absurd that these guys aren’t allowed to even be at the facility for huge portions of the year. Less practice, less skill. -Protests. I think people use this one because it’s convenient, and the only one the NFL will halfway co-sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 12 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: He has been very vocal about his political views. I tend to think she wouldn’t see this as detrimental but who knows. Knowing what little I do about Kim, I'd imagine her message was in the vein of: If you have a cause you care about and you want to do something, please talk with us first and we can help make sure your message is clear and effective for all parties involved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, LA Grant said: You wouldn't have no customers, you just wouldn't have those customers. Similarly, the NFL is fine without the fans upset by the protests. If the product is good, then you will have a business. If the barista is aggressive to customers while preparing or delivering the product, that's one thing; they're obstructing the product, and then should be disciplined or fired. Kneeling during the protests does not fit 'aggressive to customers,' imo. That would be, like, players on the sidelines saying to camera "Hey all the fans are stupid and we hate you." Like Sammy's thing with the little jobs IG post. That's more of a fit than the kneeling, which is more like 'customers don't like barista's face/shirt/social media/whatever they're doing besides making & handing them coffee' — in which case, those customers can go somewhere else. Ideally. I'll concede that I should not have said any customers - similarly you would risk not having enough customers to stay in business if that's your attitude towards them. The only time you should discipline or fire an employee is if they show aggression towards a customer? We just fundamentally disagree with how to run a business then. A business thrives on getting new customers as well as keeping the ones they have. It takes a lot of work to earn customers and it's easy to lose them. That's the genesis of the customer is always right. I know you disagree but it's a mindset that even if they're wrong - you treat them as if they're right. I get that you just think - fine we'll get different customers but that's not a business model anyone would follow. I just can't believe someone as articulate as you can think just have a good product and you'll have business. C'mon now. This went from productive conversation to very weird. However I did enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Dan said: I think you have no idea what my problems are. Yes, the NFL stage is used to suuport lotst of causes and things. But, that's the NFL deciding what they want to do. Not the players. The players are the employees, the NFL (and owners) are the boss. As an employee, you follow the company policies and procedures or you get fired. Personally, I think the players can protest whatever they want... On their own time. But that is the key, do it on thier time not the team's. I don't think they should be protesting police brutality and oppression any more than they should be holding up a sign to buy girl scout cookies during the game. What you say may generally be true in most work situations. But if employees are required to stand at attention while the national flag is raised, the employer is essentially requiring them to make a political statement. I don't believe it's proper for employers to put their employees in that position. When placed in a situation which implies their support for the status quo in America, I think they act appropriately by simpy kneeling down to negate that implication. What if the Pegulas decide to have the players stand while the Nazi flag or an NRA banner is raised before public practices? Would the answer be, "you're at work, do what your boss tells you to do?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LA Grant Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, White Linen said: I'll concede that I should not have said any customers - similarly you would risk not having enough customers to stay in business if that's your attitude towards them. The only time you should discipline or fire an employee is if they show aggression towards a customer? We just fundamentally disagree with how to run a business then. A business thrives on getting new customers as well as keeping the ones they have. It takes a lot of work to earn customers and it's easy to lose them. That's the genesis of the customer is always right. I know you disagree but it's a mindset that even if they're wrong - you treat them as if they're right. I get that you just think - fine we'll get different customers but that's not a business model anyone would follow. I just can't believe someone as articulate as you can think just have a good product and you'll have business. C'mon now. This went from productive conversation to very weird. However I did enjoy it. Wait, lol, why is the idea so weird? Most successful businesses that I can think of seem to fit the mold of focusing on making a quality product over trying to win over customers. But you're right, it's a mindset. "Focusing on quality product" is a confident mindset. "Trying to win over customers" is an insecure one. As we get more abstract I feel like I might need to say: obviously you need customers. I guess I'd say, as a customer, my preference is for a quality product over being personally catered to. For folks who say 'never again' to the NFL re: protests, they'd prefer to be catered to. (That said, the NFL game product itself could & should be much higher quality but that's an entirely separate discussion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Kneeling was/is nothing more than a distraction, in a game where that can be fatal. Look at the W-L records of the" protesting" teams. If your mind is not on the game, you will miss plays, and that costs teams games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Marv's Neighbor said: Kneeling was/is nothing more than a distraction, in a game where that can be fatal. Look at the W-L records of the" protesting" teams. If your mind is not on the game, you will miss plays, and that costs teams games. Yada yada yada..... http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/david_murphy/philadelphia-eagles-national-anthem-protests-jeffrey-lurie-donald-trump-20170924.html https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Philadelphia-Eagles-Weigh-In-on-President-Trumps-Criticism-of-Sports-Players-Over-National-Anthem-Protests-447241983.html Edited February 23, 2018 by Lurker 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTBill Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 FWIW - I think a larger part of the reduction in viewership is that people are sick of the *Pats & Tommy Boy. Every game the announcers cream their jeans about the legacy - even games where they aren't playing. Combine this with the fact that a generation - the demographic they crave - is clipping cable and out experiencing life on Sundays - instead of sitting on the couch watching football. The audience is never going to come back the way it was - those years have passed. This is the new normal for the NFL. I never had a problem with kneeling - but it is a distraction from their own point and became the story - not what they wanted people to know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, MTBill said: FWIW - I think a larger part of the reduction in viewership is that people are sick of the *Pats & Tommy Boy. Every game the announcers cream their jeans about the legacy - even games where they aren't playing. Combine this with the fact that a generation - the demographic they crave - is clipping cable and out experiencing life on Sundays - instead of sitting on the couch watching football. The audience is never going to come back the way it was - those years have passed. This is the new normal for the NFL. I never had a problem with kneeling - but it is a distraction from their own point and became the story - not what they wanted people to know. ...whether anybody agrees with it or not, it certainly contributed to a ratings decline for the NFL along with many other factors......and it could get worse with Smith and his CBA gang rattling the "walkout sabre" shortly down the road...MLB tanked ratings wise post 1994 strike and the unofficial (COUGH) 'Roids Era saved 'em despite all denials from league brass/owners (BIGGER cough).....it could be the "NFL New Normal" but they have advertisers by the gonads with a monopoly on Sundays......where else would their advertisers spend money on Sundays?....."I Love Lucy" or "Lawrence Welk" reruns?.....The Weather Channel?.....so televising contracts remain at a premium+ and advertisers fall into line, ensuring Roger Rabbit's $40 mil/yr bounty..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cd1 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 FCOL - Just stop televising the National Anthem!!! Case closed. Why the hell is it so important to televise it anyway? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 5 hours ago, RussellDopeland said: Remember - this wasn't necessarily an "issue" until Cheeto Jesus chimed in, claiming the protests unpatriotic and effrontery to our troops (this coming from the 5-time draft deferment recipient- President Bone Spurs). Can't we just let this go and focus on football....please? Wait, what?? Kaep kneeled in the preseason of the 2016 season. That's when it became an issue. Trump didn't notice enough to chime in until more than a year later. And from Kim: "They didn't grow up in the sports business world. They came in on the players' side. " Yeah, well....you didn't exactly "grow up in the sports business world either...Mrs. Pegula. I'm sure it's not her intention, but I can see where her take can seem condescending to some players. Like, "hey this is a business. You have to consider our perspective of keeping this business as good as it is and has been, ifyaknowwhatimean...". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Robert James said: What you say may generally be true in most work situations. But if employees are required to stand at attention while the national flag is raised, the employer is essentially requiring them to make a political statement. I don't believe it's proper for employers to put their employees in that position. When placed in a situation which implies their support for the status quo in America, I think they act appropriately by simpy kneeling down to negate that implication. What if the Pegulas decide to have the players stand while the Nazi flag or an NRA banner is raised before public practices? Would the answer be, "you're at work, do what your boss tells you to do?" Actually, it would be. ..or quit because you don't like the way your boss is running the business. But, if you collect a paycheck from someone, then while on the clock in their uniform, decide to make a statement about anything.. You need to think about how that is going to sit with the person signing your check. I agree, these players are more than normal employees. They're public figures and role models. But that's even more the reason they need to be aware of how their stances affect the team. To use your example... Would a team sign a guy to a long term, high priced contract if he was a confessed and vocal nazi? I doubt it. So why should they be expected to support and just allow that same player to fly a nazi flag before games after he signs his contract? We can go round and round with examples and scenarios. But, like it or not, the employer decides what is considered appropriate workplace behavior, not the employee. That's just the way it is. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Jax Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 5 hours ago, uticaclub said: Most of the players don't even know what the are "protesting" 5 hours ago, Spiderweb said: Wow.... Is that a fact? Pretty much, yes. I mean honestly, most NFL players are just slightly smarter than a rock. I mean, is there really any doubt about the latter? And before the SJWs come screaming in with "that's raaaayyyyyyycist", no, it's not. It's a cold hard fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaoulDuke79 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22555783/buffalo-bills-owner-kim-pegula-seeks-compromise-players-social-protests Kim seems like a very well thought out and eloquent person. One one of the better things that has happened to the organization in quite some time. Edited February 24, 2018 by RaoulDuke79 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: “Entitled to weigh in?” She was asked a question ... and answered it. Should she plead the 5th at a public event because of her race and economic status? She was speaking on a panel at the MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference in Boston, and was asked whether social activism by players is good for the business of sports. Does not change the tone (or lack there of?) of her response. She could have said: “Yes, I do think there is some viewership loss due to the protests. What we try to do in Buffalo is make sure everybody has a seat at the table regarding moving forward on the issue, and make sure we listen to each other. Players, can’t aches, staff, etc. We want to make sure we are supportive of our team, agile making sure the needle doesn’t trend down” But she didn’t. She was belittling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numark3 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Dan said: I completely agree with you, on all points. But my point remains... If your boss said you have to behave a certain way at work, you have to do that. I can't use my company car for personal trips to the sex store? If I'm caught wearing my work shirt in a bar, I'm fired. Some other owner may not care, but mine does. I think too many people on this discussion are wrapped up in what the players are protesting. I'm saying it doesn't matter what they're protesting... They are employees and when they are wearing the company uniform, they should be expected to represent the company. Right now, in February, on their own time... Protest away! Call a news conference a day. Do what you want. But, don't do it at the office. You are conflating way too many things with your position. These players aren’t comparable to most employees, they are governed by collective bargaining unit, have a ton of rights, and don’t have to do a bizillion things the pegula’s ask of them while “in the office.” ”Employees” have a variety of rights, and they are allowed to act within the scope of their rights. I am allowed to do a lot of things someone at McDonald’s cannot. 53 minutes ago, John in Jax said: Pretty much, yes. I mean honestly, most NFL players are just slightly smarter than a rock. I mean, is there really any doubt about the latter? And before the SJWs come screaming in with "that's raaaayyyyyyycist", no, it's not. It's a cold hard fact. I think the elusive concept of a “fact” is escaping your fingers Edited February 24, 2018 by Crayola64 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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