Which Players Were The Weak Links During The Bills Super Bowl Era?

[BuffaloRush]

So I'm watching "The Two Bills" on ESPN and this forced to relive Super Bowl 25.  It truly maddening to see Belichick and Parcels completely out-coached Marv Levy.  But there's a great clip they play where right when Scott Norwood was lining up for the field goal, Parcels and Matt Bahr were questioning if he even could make a kick of that length.  That really made me realize that when you have a kicker who is 50/50 from 46, it's clearly a weakness that should have been addressed.  There really were some very weak spots on the Bills, that were clearly overshadowed.  So what were some of the weakeness (among many strengths) of the Bills Super Bowl Teams.

 

1. Scott Norwood

Norwood is somewhat of a cult hero here in Buffalo.  The simple fact that he was not a great kicker by 1990-91.  He had one very good Pro Bowl year in 1988, but his stats declined fairly rapidly since.  In fact, the season after his missed kick in Super Bowl 25 was his final one.  As it was clear, he was no longer a dependable kicker.  Norwood was only 60% between 40-49 yards in 1990, didn't have the leg to attempt a FG over 49 yards and also was not very good on natural grass.  Watching that last drive, it seemed that the Bills were very content to settle to put the game on the line w/ a kicker who was shaky at best from that distance.  I know he took a lot of blame for missing that kick, but you can make the argument that asking him to make a kick of that distance was beyond a reasonable expectation given his ability/performance in 1990.

 

Sadly this was realized about 2 years two late when the Bills went out of their way to sign one of the top kickers on the FA Market in Steve Christie.  A sign of a great GM/Coach, is knowing when to move on from a player BEFORE it's too late.  Sadly the Bills and Polian did not do this in 1990, and it's a big reason why the lost Super Bowl 25. 

 

2. Cornerback #2 

The Bills were thought to be in good position at CB during the start of the 1989 season were Derrick Burroughs and Nate Odomes.  The problem was Burroughs suffered a career ending injury.  While Odomes play continued to rise from that point, the Bills never really found a player of Burroughs' caliber on the other side.  This included JD Williams who Polian drafted in 1989 specifically as an upgrade from Kirby Jackson the starter in 1989.  This turned out to be one of Polian's most notable draft busts during this time period.    Williams was a pretty lousy CB and while he was fast, he certainly did not have the production or skills to be a capable starting CB.  Jackson, was a passable starter, but he was perhaps one of the weakest starters on the team.  While he put together a few decent seasons and made some big plays at time, he also gave up many long completions and I think it's fair to say his play was inconsistent.  Polian tried to address the CB position in 1991 again by drafting Henry Jones to play CB.  While he never played much CB, he did have a very productive career.  Other CB's like Dwight Drane or Clifford Hicks were bottom of the roster talents that were just not very good.  Stronger play at CB opposite Odomes was something the defense clearly lacked.

 

3. Jeff Wright NT

I remember during the 1994 season where the Bills failed to make the playoffs after reaching 4 straight Super Bowls.  Coach Chuck Dickerson used to rag on Jeff Wright all of the time - and he was 100% right.  Jeff Wright made some memorable plays on the Bills defense, and seemed to do a decent job rushing the passer.   But IMO I think he was the recipient of playing on a front 7 with several great players who could get after players (Bruce, Hanson, Bennett, Talley etc).  Wright was very undersized for a NT (6-2, 274 pounds) and the Bills DL was often susceptible to bigger, physical offensive lines who pounded the football - especially in the Super Bowl.  Wright was a big reason why.  Wright's last season was in 1994.  He never played for another team after he was finished with the Bills and I don't believe it had anything to do with injuries, retirement, or health.  That's a telling fact.  You can make an argument that a bigger, stronger NT might have really made a better impact on the ground.

 

4. Carwell Gardner, FB

Yes this is a bit of stretch.  But remember the Bills were stacked on offense and finding a weakness was a little challenging.  The Bills ran out of a 3 WR set quite a bit but there were plenty of times when the did use a 2 back set as well.  When you think of some of the versatile fullback of the time (Tom Rathman, Christian Okoye, John Williams, Keith Byars, Daryl Johnston) having more production from the fullback position could have been deadly.  Gardner was a second round draft pick and I don't really feel that he ever lived up to his draft status as he was primarily a blocker for Thurman and Kenneth Davis.  Again, it could have been how he was used.

 

5. Walt Corey - Defensive Coordinator

The Bills Super Bowl defense largely will be remembered as "bend but don't break."  Given the talent on the team, I feel that they should have been much more dominant that they actually were on the field.  I'm placing a lot of the blame here on the coaching, in particular DC Walt Corey, for really not getting enough out of a tremendously talented group. When was one-time when you can say - "Wow the Bills put together a stellar defensive plan?"  Maybe in 1991 vs. Denver?  

 

Those are my picks - how about yours?

 

So who are some of your choices?

Edited February 8, 2018 by BuffaloRush

[26CornerBlitz]

We're on to 2018. 

[Seanbillsfan2206]

With the exception of Super Bowl 25, there weren’t very many strong links on the team. During the actual games anyways

[DC Tom]

41 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

Those are my picks - how about yours?

 

 

I pick you.  Thanks for making me relive this.  Go print out your post, give yourself a paper cut with it, and pour vinegar on it, !@#$.

[Boatdrinks]

I haven't watched " two Bills" as I find ESPN s myth building annoying, but I'll chime in here. The early 90's Bills had a few weak spots, and yes K was one of them. However, I still subscribe to the late , great Bill Walsh's opinion that the Bills lost SB XXV due to their own poor clock management on the final posession. It may not be as hyperbolic as ESPN seemingly portraying it as some genius scheme by BB or that Norwood choked. ( Reich never did get the laces spun around on that fateful hold btw, watch it for yourself) The Bills wasted about 20 seconds or so with several mistakes on the last drive , and it most likely cost them the chance to walk off the field victorious that day. You can say Levy was out coached, but Marv was a delegator type HC and let his assistants do their jobs. Parcells did expose their main weakness , that the D was a little soft vs the run up the middle. The Giants kept the ball for over 40 minutes in Supe XXV ; that went much further toward their win vs Buffalo than anything theG men  did on defense in that game. After the 90 season, Jeff Wright needed to be replaced. The Bills coveted NT Ted Washington out of Louisville in the 1991 draft , and missed out on him by one pick to the 49ers. I've always thought THAT draft pick alone might have delivered at least one NFL championship to the Bills if it had happened differently. The Bills got run on pretty badly by the Redskins and then the Cowboys  in their last appearance. Polian never got that true NT they needed to be a run stopping force. As good as those 90s teams were, the NFC teams they faced were just a bit better in critical areas. Matchups were the factor back then as much as today. If Chris Berman had gotten his way , and the Bills faced the 49ers in one of those SBs, that may have been different as well. The 49ers style might have been a better matchup than the rock 'em and stop 'em teams they faced in those title tilts. As luck would have it , the Bills drew the bad matchup each time. 

[BuffaloRush]

10 minutes ago, Seanbillsfan2206 said:

With the exception of Super Bowl 25, there weren’t very many strong links on the team. During the actual games anyways

This makes no sense.  Are you saying there weren't any weak links?  Or any strong links?  We all know there were definitely All-Pro and Hall of Fame players who played on these teams

7 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

I haven't watched " two Bills" as I find ESPN s myth building annoying, but I'll chime in here. The early 90's Bills had a few weak spots, and yes K was one of them. However, I still subscribe to the late , great Bill Walsh's opinion that the Bills lost SB XXV due to their own poor clock management on the final posession. It may not be as hyperbolic as ESPN seemingly portraying it as some genius scheme by BB or that Norwood choked. ( Reich never did get the laces spun around on that fateful hold btw, watch it for yourself) The Bills wasted about 20 seconds or so with several mistakes on the last drive , and it most likely cost them the chance to walk off the field victorious that day. You can say Levy was out coached, but Marv was a delegator type HC and let his assistants do their jobs. Parcells did expose their main weakness , that the D was a little soft vs the run up the middle. The Giants kept the ball for over 40 minutes in Supe XXV ; that went much further toward their win vs Buffalo than anything theG men  did on defense in that game. After the 90 season, Jeff Wright needed to be replaced. The Bills coveted NT Ted Washington out of Louisville in the 1991 draft , and missed out on him by one pick to the 49ers. I've always thought THAT draft pick alone might have delivered at least one NFL championship to the Bills if it had happened differently. The Bills got run on pretty badly by the Redskins and then the Cowboys  in their last appearance. Polian never got that true NT they needed to be a run stopping force. As good as those 90s teams were, the NFC teams they faced were just a bit better in critical areas. Matchups were the factor back then as much as today. If Chris Berman had gotten his way , and the Bills faced the 49ers in one of those SBs, that may have been different as well. The 49ers style might have been a better matchup than the rock 'em and stop 'em teams they faced in those title tilts. As luck would have it , the Bills drew the bad matchup each time. 

 

Good response @Boatdrinks  Glad someone else here likes to talk Super Bowl era Bills.

 

So we are in agreement that K and NT were two huge weaknesses.  I didn't realize the Bills wanted to draft Ted back then.  I agree, that one addition could have been huge to the defense.  What baffles me if why the Bills wanted 4 years before finally understanding (probably under the encourage of Wade) that they needed to replace Jeff Wright.  In fact, they replaced him with Ted Washington!  Look at the defense in 1995 and 1996.

 

Great point about coaching.  While Marv might have been a delegator, I feel that he really should have made the move to get rid of Walt Corey years before 1994.  Probably after the 1993 Super Bowl at the latest.

 

 

 

 

[Seanbillsfan2206]

20 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:

This makes no sense.  Are you saying there weren't any weak links?  Or any strong links?  We all know there were definitely All-Pro and Hall of Fame players who played on these teams

 

 

 

Really? Re-read my post. You do know that we got smoked in those Super Bowl games right? Our hall of famers didn’t really show up in the big game....

[BuffaloRush]

11 minutes ago, Seanbillsfan2206 said:

Really? Re-read my post. You do know that we got smoked in those Super Bowl games right? Our hall of famers didn’t really show up in the big game....

 

How much of that is talent vs coaching.  The talent and production of players speaks for itself.  I’m thinking coaching deserves the bigger part of the blame

[Dadonkadonk]

Talley - most overrated Bill of all time.  Why did the Giants have the ball so long?  Talley missed more tackles in that game than he has GoFundMe sites

Kelso - below average skills, no highlight moments except getting to the ball too late on every Michael Irvin catch

[Dadonkadonk]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

How much of that is talent vs coaching.  The talent and production of players speaks for itself.  I’m thinking coaching deserves the bigger part of the blame

Marv lost the Giants game.  

The NFC was the far better conference and the talent showed.  The Bills got destroyed by teams that faced tougher competition and had better rosters especially their O-lines compared to the Bills front 7.  At every position except Bruce there was a better player in the NFC.  Rice>Reed, Smith and Sanders > Thomas (Oh that hurts to type as he is my favorite Bill of all time), Montana(NFC until 92)/Young/Aikman > Kelly, LT/Haley>Biscuit, more than half the TEs in the NFC better than Metzellars.  White had size and strength. Bruce had size and speed.  They are both the best of all time at DE.  Wolford was a fine LT but I don't think he was even the best OT in SuperBowl 25.

 

The Bills had great players but as has been pointed out were just outmatched up front.  Would Smerlas have made a difference in XXV?  Maybe. Maybe on sheer guts alone but who knows.

[Success]

I wholeheartedly disagree with putting Norwood on this list.  He was a great kicker for that team - accurate and clutch.  They could have gotten a longer kicker, but sacrificed accuracy.

 

Never should have come to that.  Bills were the much better team in that game and should have won going away.  But they were a little overconfident and partied too much.

[BADOLBILZ]

47 minutes ago, Dadonkadonk said:

Talley - most overrated Bill of all time.  Why did the Giants have the ball so long?  Talley missed more tackles in that game than he has GoFundMe sites

Kelso - below average skills, no highlight moments except getting to the ball too late on every Michael Irvin catch

 

 

Disagree on Talley.........he was one of those good players who got a rep as being very good because he team was good........but he WAS good.

 

Kelso was a huge liability.    Back then you needed a safety who wasn't a total liability against the run......which he WAS..........and who could put big hits on receivers coming over the middle.......which he could not.    He was a huge problem going against the more physical NFC teams in the SB.

 

 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

We weren't a perfect team there were some holes like NT & CB but i wish we would of signed Reggie White when we had a chance. 

 

Reggie & Bruce that would have been amazing and it would of fit perfectly because they both played on opposite sides. Reggie definitely would of been the difference vs the Cowboys. The Bills could of ended up in even more Superbowls also probably would of gone in 94, 95, 96, 97. Ralph Wilson had a great opportunity to put together the greatest DEs in history on the same field.  This was my greatest regret from those days.

 

Add Deion to this also we could of been the greatest dynasty of all time.  Ralph let his pockets get in the way of greatness. 

Edited February 8, 2018 by NastyNateSoldiers

[Nihilarian]

From what I can recall the weakest part of each super bowl loss was all the injuries except perhaps against the NY Giants in that first SB. Against Denver, in that AFC Championship game, the O line was so decimated that the TE Pete Metzalaars needed to play tackle.

 

What a lot of fans forget is that Thurman Thomas was about 70% of the offense in those years in running and catching the ball out of the backfield. Sure they had the highest scoring offense in 1990 but look at the numbers 425 passing attempts vs 479 rushing attempts. The point here is that QB Jim Kelly called his own plays and they came out throwing against the Giants in that first SB. 

 

 OC Ted Marchibroda set up the old Redskins "counter trey" run scheme and Thomas made his cutbacks brilliantly. Ole Ted used to be the Colts head coach and taught Bert Jones to call his own plays like he did with Kelly. Later on, with the Colts, it was Ted Marchibroda who used Marshall Faulk like he did with Thurman Thomas and the result was another HoF RB. 

 

The thing is, that just before the Redskins super bowl the Colts made it known that they were interested in hiring Ted back as head coach and he did indeed depart for Indy right after the game. Looking back, I asked myself if he put 100% in that offensive game plan considering he was going to be a division rival head coach. Yes, back then the Colts, Dolphins, Jets, Patriots, Bills were all in the same division. 

 

Back then the Bills had that juggernaut offense that ran the no-huddle/ run and shoot and not many teams could contend with how fast the offense got to the line and ran a play. This limited defensive substitutions and had the opposing defense gassed very quickly. The Bills had an elite S&C coach in Rusty Jones and when they would travel to Miami in 90-degree weather it was the Dolphins who were all gasping for air vs Bills who were superbly conditioned. (I disliked Mularkey for getting rid of Jones)

 

As for the two Cowboy loses 52-17, 13-30 The Boys just had a younger, stronger better team. The Bills defense was 27th in yards given up in 1993 that year and the Bills no longer had OC Ted Marchibroda. Lets also not forget that Bill Owner fired Bills GM Bill Polian after that 1992 season. 

 

 

In 1990 the Giants had just shut down Joe Montana at Candlestick in the NFC championship game and held that HoF QB to 18 of 26 for 190 yards. The Niners also only ran the ball 11 rushes for 39 yards. The Giants had the best defense in the league that year. 

 

In 1991 the Redskins finished the year 14-2 and they had the highest scoring offense in the league that year, #1 in PF, #4 in yards and their defense was almost just as good #2 in points allowed, #3 in yards allowed. 

 

1992-1993 the Bills faced a 13-3, 12-4 Cowboy team that was the best of the NFC with several HoF players. On a side note, In 1993 the Bills beat the Cowboys in Texas stadium week two, 10-13.

 

In my view, there were a lot of reasons the Bills failed to win a super bowl. Coaching, injuries, lack of quality depth at certain positions and they faced some really strong NFC teams those years. It seemed to me that after that first SB those Buffalo Bills teams were all beat up just winning the AFC the next three years.  

Edited February 8, 2018 by Nihilarian

[Nihilarian]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Disagree on Talley.........he was one of those good players who got a rep as being very good because he team was good........but he WAS good.

 

Kelso was a huge liability.    Back then you needed a safety who wasn't a total liability against the run......which he WAS..........and who could put big hits on receivers coming over the middle.......which he could not.    He was a huge problem going against the more physical NFC teams in the SB.

 

 

1

Big disagree on Tally as he would make all those tackles on the RB's that would run right by Bruce Smith while he was on his way to the QB. The guy was asked to make the tackles on that right side while Smith rushed the QB and he did!  The guy was a playmaker doing a mop-up job and he made the pro bowl in 90, 91.

 

1990, 123 tackles,(which led the team) 4 sacks, 2 INTs, 1 FR

1991, 117 tackles, (only Conlan had more) 4 sacks, 5 INTs, 4 Forced Fumbles, 2 Fumble Recoveries. 

1992, 106 tackles, (which led the team)4 sacks, 2 FF

1993, 136 tackles, (which led the team)2 sacks, 3 INTs, 1 TD, 4 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recoveries. 

[Nervous Guy]

no players...100% Marv and his staff.

[Xwnyer]

6 hours ago, Success said:

I wholeheartedly disagree with putting Norwood on this list.  He was a great kicker for that team - accurate and clutch.  They could have gotten a longer kicker, but sacrificed accuracy.

 

Never should have come to that.  Bills were the much better team in that game and should have won going away.  But they were a little overconfident and partied too much.

He missed because of the damn helicopters and We lost Momentum every time one of Billy Boys defensive players went down with injuries that stopped play only to be back a play or two later.   Cheating started early for him but lack of a decent NT and LBs and Kelly’s ego is what cost us SB25.

[papazoid]

#1 - alcohol - most of the star players were immature fall down drunks

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Darren-Woodson-Bills-lost-Super-Bowls-due-to-ex?urn=nfl,216360

 

#2- marv levy - totally outcoached in that game....embarrassingly so

 

#3 - poor tackling by most of the defense

 

#4 - poor play by jim kelly

Edited February 8, 2018 by papazoid

[Kirby Jackson]

8 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

2. Cornerback #2 

The Bills were thought to be in good position at CB during the start of the 1989 season were Derrick Burroughs and Nate Odomes.  The problem was Burroughs suffered a career ending injury.  While Odomes play continued to rise from that point, the Bills never really found a player of Burroughs' caliber on the other side.  This included JD Williams who Polian drafted in 1989 specifically as an upgrade from Kirby Jackson the starter in 1989.  This turned out to be one of Polian's most notable draft busts during this time period.    Williams was a pretty lousy CB and while he was fast, he certainly did not have the production or skills to be a capable starting CB.  Jackson, was a passable starter, but he was perhaps one of the weakest starters on the team.  While he put together a few decent seasons and made some big plays at time, he also gave up many long completions and I think it's fair to say his play was inconsistent.  Polian tried to address the CB position in 1991 again by drafting Henry Jones to play CB.  While he never played much CB, he did have a very productive career.  Other CB's like Dwight Drane or Clifford Hicks were bottom of the roster talents that were just not very good.  Stronger play at CB opposite Odomes was something the defense clearly lacked.

 

 

[bmur66]

Jeff Wright and Co. got ran over by Emmitt Smith in the 2nd half after we had them right where we wanted them.