Question on draft strategy

[GreggTX]

If the Bills draft a guy like Lamar Jackson, should they start him right away and does that mean we should focus more on offense in the draft? We need a lot of help on the OL and according to PFF, our WR corps, our WR's generated the least "separation" of any WR corps in the NFL in '17.  Besides, I don't want to sign an avg starter to a big, long term contract only to eat a pile of dead money. I also don't subscribe to the theory that a good qb will never be any good if he has a bad rookie year because he'll be all butthurt and lose confidence.

 

I know we need help all around, but I don't see how we can fill all the whale(y) sized holes on this roster in 1 offseason.

[GunnerBill]

If they draft Lamar Jackson they need the Mahomes plan for him. Put in a box marked "do not even consider opening until week 17."

 

Of all the supposed first round contenders Jackson is the one least ready to start week 1 his rookie year in my opinion. 

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

If they draft Lamar Jackson they need the Mahomes plan for him. Put in a box marked "do not even consider opening until week 17."

 

Of all the supposed first round contenders Jackson is the one least ready to start week 1 his rookie year in my opinion. 

 

I don't think that's true at all. if anything his running ability will get him out of alot of trouble. I don't think people understand just how fast Jackson is, he's about to flash it at the combine. His legs will get him out of many jams which can make him a starter right away, I'd always like for a rookie to sit back, learn the position, let things slow down but like anything in life, the only way to see is by trial and error.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

I don't think that's true at all. if anything his running ability will get him out of alot of trouble. I don't think people understand just how fast Jackson is, he's about to flash it at the combine. His legs will get him out of many jams which can make him a starter right away, I'd always like for a rookie to sit back, learn the position, let things slow down but like anything in life, the only way to see is by trial and error.

 

At the moment he is simply not refined enough as a passer to make the plays needed. I have said it before and say it again.... if Lamar Jackson is at his ceiling as a passer as he is today then he will not be a successful NFL QB. The good news on Jackson is that there is reason to believe he is still not at his ceiling as a passer and is improving still in touch, mechanics and understanding defenses. To me he remains something of a project though a high ceiling one. 

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

At the moment he is simply not refined enough as a passer to make the plays needed. I have said it before and say it again.... if Lamar Jackson is at his ceiling as a passer as he is today then he will not be a successful NFL QB. The good news on Jackson is that there is reason to believe he is still not at his ceiling as a passer and is improving still in touch, mechanics and understanding defenses. To me he remains something of a project though a high ceiling one. 

 

You can say this for every single Qb drafted, there is only 1 way to find out, he will have his ups and downs, if he has a Peyton manning-like work ethic, staying late and dialing up plays/scenarios then he has a good chance of making it. 

[yungmack]

26 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

I don't think that's true at all. if anything his running ability will get him out of alot of trouble. I don't think people understand just how fast Jackson is, he's about to flash it at the combine. His legs will get him out of many jams which can make him a starter right away, I'd always like for a rookie to sit back, learn the position, let things slow down but like anything in life, the only way to see is by trial and error.

?

[LA Grant]

I think the Bills don't make a big move up, though maybe they move a bit, but I don't think they try to climb the board for a QB. 

 

I think it looks something like

 

1,1,2,2 — OL, DL, RB, QB

3, 4 — LB/CB, OL/DL

5, 5 — WR/TE, LB/CB

 

If they do move up, I like Baker Mayfield. 

Edited February 7, 2018 by LA Grant

[Mark80]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

At the moment he is simply not refined enough as a passer to make the plays needed. I have said it before and say it again.... if Lamar Jackson is at his ceiling as a passer as he is today then he will not be a successful NFL QB. The good news on Jackson is that there is reason to believe he is still not at his ceiling as a passer and is improving still in touch, mechanics and understanding defenses. To me he remains something of a project though a high ceiling one. 

 

Lamar has progressed quite nicely as a QB over the last two seasons.  The difference in his pocket awareness and footwork from last year to this year was shocking to me.  I think he may be a lot more "ready" than people are giving him credit for, especially if he can make another leap forward this off-season like he did the last one.  This kid clearly works hard at making himself a better QB in all respects and he has really grown on me over the course of this season.  I've got him third behind Mayfield and then Darnold for who I would want.

Edited February 7, 2018 by Mark80

[ALF]

Daboll is better suited with a drafted QB and Peterman then Dennison. One less worry now whoever they draft. If only Castillo could use the OL like Kromer did and use Miller again .  Glenn needs to be 100% for 2018 also .

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, Mark80 said:

 

 I think he may be a lot more "ready" than people are giving him credit for, especially if he can make another leap forward this off-season like he did the last one.  

 

1. That is projection. If he takes a leap forward.... sure. It is an "if" though. 

 

2. Players rarely progress significantly as Quarterbacks from their final year in college to their rookie year in the NFL. That it because so much of their draft prep is not what I would call development work.

 

I am not against taking Lamar at #21 - though he is the #5 QB on my board - and as I said there is plenty of reason to believe he is still improving as a Quarterback. But for me you take Lamar Jackson he better be your plan for 2019 not 2018. 

[Kirby Jackson]

I agree with Gunner on the topic. I like Lamar Jackson but he needs to sit a year. Josh Allen is on the same timeline. Baker and Rosen are day 1 guys, Darnold and Rudolph may be bye week guys. 

 

As fans we want that QB out there right away. Kids always want to play with a new toy on Christmas Morning. We need to resist that as fans and do what’s best for the player. If the Bills trade up for Baker, as an example, go ahead and run him out there day 1. He will be ready. 

 

Because FA comes first the Bills will “buy insurance.” They will have a guy on the roster that is capable of starting up to a full season. They don’t know which of the above QBs will be here.

 

The only way that it changes is if the mess in Indy sets Andrew Luck loose or somehow Cousins ends up in Buffalo. Neither of those scenarios are likely at all. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

2 hours ago, GreggTX said:

If the Bills draft a guy like Lamar Jackson, should they start him right away and does that mean we should focus more on offense in the draft? We need a lot of help on the OL and according to PFF, our WR corps, our WR's generated the least "separation" of any WR corps in the NFL in '17.  Besides, I don't want to sign an avg starter to a big, long term contract only to eat a pile of dead money. I also don't subscribe to the theory that a good qb will never be any good if he has a bad rookie year because he'll be all butthurt and lose confidence.

 

I know we need help all around, but I don't see how we can fill all the whale(y) sized holes on this roster in 1 offseason.

Whaley sized holes not fair at all did Whaley tell Mcd to cut or trade talented players that all ended up being part of winning teams and not only that they all played pivotal roles in those teams success. 

 

Watkins- Although he didn't put up big numbers he played a huge role for the Rams taking on double teams and creating space for Gurley, Woods and Kupp to flourish. 

 

Nickel Robey - Was the top rated slot corner in the NFL and everytime i watched the Rams he was making plays. 

 

Marcell Dareus- it took him some time to adjust but the Jags went from 31st against the run the first half of season to 7th in the second half . Plus we seen what he did in the postseason. 

 

Rags - Was a starter for a playoff team didn't really have a great season but essentially was a rookie . 

 

 Graham, Darby, need i say more then Superbowl champs. I guess they fit there culture nicely.  

 

Whaley brought in plenty of talent for the Bills to bad he never got to hire his coach or draft his QB. He was never given the control he needed.  I think its unfair to be critical of his performance.  Btw the last draft and free agency we had was run by his scouting staff and personel guys. So lets see what Beane can do with his extra 2pks in the top  of the draft.

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Whaley sized holes not fair at all did Whaley tell Mcd to cut or trade talented players that all ended up being part of winning teams and not only that they all played pivotal roles in those teams success. 

 

Watkins- Although he didn't put up big numbers he played a huge role for the Rams taking on double teams and creating space for Gurley, Woods and Kupp to flourish. Dude, he's a flat Earther. He himself admitted he was immature and not a team player in Buffalo. That's why he's gone.

 

Nickel Robey - Was the top rated slot corner in the NFL and everytime i watched the Rams he was making plays. Actually, this one falls on Whaley for not resigning him when FA started.

 

Marcell Dareus- it took him some time to adjust but the Jags went from 31st against the run the first half of season to 7th in the second half . Plus we seen what he did in the postseason. Was barely playing here, unmotivated when he did and had a huge salary. Trade worked for him as motivation and worked for us to dump his contract. I do wish we saw that intensity while he was here under McD

 

Rags - Was a starter for a playoff team didn't really have a great season but essentially was a rookie . I love Rags and was sad to see him go, but he didn't fit the defense. Just that simple.

 

 Graham, Darby, need i say more then Superbowl champs. I guess they fit there culture nicely.  That defense gave up a record amount of passing yardage in the Super Bowl. The Eagles won in spite of that. On the whole, good players. Again, neither a fit for the defense we play here.

 

Whaley brought in plenty of talent for the Bills to bad he never got to hire his coach or draft his QB. He was never given the control he needed.  I think its unfair to be critical of his performance.  Btw the last draft and free agency we had was run by his scouting staff and personel guys. So lets see what Beane can do with his extra 2pks in the top  of the draft.

 

The blind love people have still for Whaley is unreal sometimes.

[xRUSHx]

9 minutes ago, KelsaysLunchbox said:

The blind love people have still for Whaley is unreal sometimes.

I agree man.

IMO With Whaley it will always come down to his QB purgatory as his biggest blunder.

[BigBuff423]

First, no to Jackson....second, no to going out and getting a big named Vet QB, ala Cousins....third, IMHO, the Bills should use FA to address the areas that the Draft is the weakest, such as DE / CB / and at least 2 Offensive linemen - then the Bills should use their 21st pick on a QB, presuming Rudolph is still available, if not, then the best LB on their board as long as it's not too far of a stretch - DT is deep in this Draft. Then, try and trade out of one of their spots to gain some more picks. The remaining Draft should see two more DTs, at LEAST 2 LBs (one OLB / one ILB - after they've already signed one via FA - yes we're that desperate), one mid-round RB, one mid-round WR, and then BPA which should include a CB somewhere just for depth and development. 

 

If Rudolph isn't available at 21 then Mike White in the 3rd is the way to go, again IMHO.

 

Having said allllllllll of that, and I'd prefer that scenario simply because I like Rudolph and White - IF the Bills were to believe it is all QB or nothing at all else matters, you do whatever in God's name you need to do to get to #2 to take Rosen simply because trading UP for ANYONE else, is pointless. 

Edited February 7, 2018 by BigBuff423

[Mat68]

If Jackson has a high work ethic he could start week 1.  Qb is a funny position.  Last year the Texans wemt with lets sit Watson as lomg as we can.  That lasted 2 quarters.  Watson was onviously the better player hence the quick hook for Savage.

 

Jackson is such a dynamic athlete you will have a hard time keeping him off the field.  His athletic ability gives him alot to fall back on while he learns to play Qb in the NFL.  

 

[starrymessenger]

I think that Jackson may well turn out to be the best of a good and deep QB class. My gut tells me that Beane likes him too. Ideally he would sit and develop for a year behind a vet. But these days first round QBs are more often press ganged into service immediately. If the Bills drafted him I'd be surprised if they invested in the kind of vet FA QB who might be expected to play for years as a starter. A vet backup would essentially mean that Jackson would probably be starting and learning on the fly. Perhaps not ideal but D. Watson has said that Jackson is capable of doing what he can do, and I believe that. 

I think the only QB in this class who is good to go day one with the least transition friction is Rosen assuming the offence he runs is built for a classic pocket passing/WC offence QB (which in his case is pretty much the only logical assumption). 

I expect that Jackson is already viewed by the talent evaluators of QB needy teams much more highly than the talking heads would lead you to believe. I think that sentiment will only gain momentum in the next couple of months so I don't think he will fall to us at 21. He could go much earlier in the first. 

[buffaloboyinATL]

7 hours ago, GreggTX said:

If the Bills draft a guy like Lamar Jackson, should they start him right away and does that mean we should focus more on offense in the draft?

No. Whoever they draft should still have to earn the starting job against any other QB that we have on the roster. As many have stated, a battle between veteran FA, drafted rookie and Peterman would be a good way to go. 

[BuffAlone]

5 hours ago, LA Grant said:

I think the Bills don't make a big move up, though maybe they move a bit, but I don't think they try to climb the board for a QB. 

 

I think it looks something like

 

1,1,2,2 — OL, DL, RB, QB

3, 4 — LB/CB, OL/DL

5, 5 — WR/TE, LB/CB

 

If they do move up, I like Baker Mayfield. 

If they go RB in 1st or 2nd, it better be because Barkley fell in their laps. That is all....

I think its gonna be more like this,

1)Dt/LB

1)Qb/OL

2)Lb/Ol

2)DE/QB

3-6) Wr/CB/RB

Edited February 7, 2018 by BuffAlone

[OldTimer1960]

5 hours ago, LA Grant said:

I think the Bills don't make a big move up, though maybe they move a bit, but I don't think they try to climb the board for a QB. 

 

I think it looks something like

 

1,1,2,2 — OL, DL, RB, QB

3, 4 — LB/CB, OL/DL

5, 5 — WR/TE, LB/CB

 

If they do move up, I like Baker Mayfield. 

While I am not in favor of a big trade up, it would be disappointing to not come out of round 1 with a decent QB prospect.  I don’t think that they will be able to even get a Mike White kind of guy where the sit in round 2 without moving up.