Remind Me - Why Didn't We Make a Run at Nick Foles?

[T-Bomb]

26 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

To be fair, at worst it would be a 2 hit wonder.   It's hard to call a whole season as good as 2013 just a fluke and then to see him do even better in the playoffs against some good defenses again.

 

Maybe, I bet some team overpays for him and then regrets it, we'll see...

[prissythecat]

46 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

To be fair, at worst it would be a 2 hit wonder.   It's hard to call a whole season as good as 2013 just a fluke and then to see him do even better in the playoffs against some good defenses again.

 

The two periods he did well were in Philly.   So have to wonder if he is indeed like a Matt Flynn.

[Real McClappy]

9 minutes ago, prissythecat said:

 

The two periods he did well were in Philly.   So have to wonder if he is indeed like a Matt Flynn.

He's done it under 2 completely different coaching staffs. The one were he did not shine was under Fisher which is no surprise with Austin and Britt being is top WR targets.

 

There is absolutely zero comparison to Matt Flynn who accomplished nothing in the League.

Edited February 6, 2018 by Real McCoy

[BADOLBILZ]

18 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

But you'd agree that in the right situation, he can excel, right? Looking back, was there a worse system for him than Jeff Fisher's Rams' offense? They ran a straight-up Air Coryell offense that year, which is about the worst system possible for a player like him. 

 

PS - in his limited time in KC in 2016, he was actually pretty good: 3 games, 410 yards, 8.5 ypa, 3 TDs, 0 INTs, and a 105.9 rating. That's an Andy Reid offense too, which again is a viable and reasonably common offense in the NFL now. The additional thing is that Belichick clearly struggles against Reid's system. 

 

 

It's well past time that people realize that much of what teams have been doing in the NCAA is plenty viable against today's NFL defenses.

 

We just had to endure a season of neanderthal offense because our HC hired an OC that couldn't adapt to his QB and yet we have vets like JohnC on here yapping on about how you need a QB who can run a "pro offense" when a backup QB running RPO just outlasted Tom Brady in the SB.

 

You aren't going to consistently "out-pro-offense" teams with wise but healthy QB's like Brady, Rodgers, Brees or Big Ben. 

 

Yeah, long term you want that kinda' guy but in the meantime you gotta' maximize what your guy CAN do.    And maybe that allows you to keep that guy long enough where he becomes that wise old 12-15 year vet.   But the days of "well we gotta' suffer for 3 years to find out if this kid can learn the WCO because that's the only thing that works in the NFL"  are over.   Thankfully.       

 

 

[dave mcbride]

14 hours ago, 707BillsFan said:

 

Not sure if this is posted in any of the other 6 pages or so, but just look at what Fisher did w/ Keenum, Foles and Goff. Look at these three now, free of him and his putrid 7-9 coaching. 

https://deadspin.com/jeff-fisher-must-be-arrested-and-tried-for-his-crimes-a-1822733338

LOL  - "All of which is to say: Sean Mannion is already a 2018 MVP candidate."

19 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

He's done it under 2 completely different coaching staffs. The one were he did not shine was under Fisher which is no surprise with Austin and Britt being is top WR targets.

 

There is absolutely zero comparison to Matt Flynn who accomplished nothing in the League.

He played well in limited time in KC too last year.

[prissythecat]

20 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

He's done it under 2 completely different coaching staffs. The one were he did not shine was under Fisher which is no surprise with Austin and Britt being is top WR targets.

 

There is absolutely zero comparison to Matt Flynn who accomplished nothing in the League.

 

 

Cmon man.  Matt Flynn threw for 6 touchdowns once!   

[buffalobloodfloridahome]

I think Foles would fit in just fine in Buffalo with Shady we have a solid run game. We do need to upgrade our o-line especially after losing Wood. Also we need to figure out who our WRs will be. He already has familiarity with Matthews if he sticks around. I don't think there is a QB in the league that wouldn't want to throw to Kelvin Benjamin dude has a huge catch radius. Plus Clay and O'Leary made our WR core this year allot better than people give them credit. It would just take someone capable of reading the defenses and actually releasing the ball on time to make them productive. We have already seen talent wasted in Buffalo with Tyrod at QB when we had Woods and Goodwin on the team as well as Hogan when Watkins was healthy he was a decent deep threat. 27 TDs in two years is by  no means great and the yardage was sub par when will people stop trying to prop up Tyrod and realize that he is just a game manager that can run with the best of them. To compete in this league we need to score more points and take and complete a fair amount of shots down field. We also have to be able to come from behind to win games. 

[grb]

1 hour ago, buffalobloodfloridahome said:

We have already seen talent wasted in Buffalo with Tyrod at QB when we had Woods and Goodwin on the team as well as Hogan when Watkins was healthy he was a decent deep threat. 27 TDs in two years is by no means great

 

It's like a jihad against reality itself.  Here's a reminder for the umpteenth time (plus one) : Over the two years of 2015 & 2016 whenever Taylor had Watkins and Woods on the field, this happened : 63.6% comp,  8.25 ypa, 27 TD passes, 6 ints.

 

But it was 27 td passes over FIFTEEN GAMES, as was clearly noted. Is that great? Maybe not, but using the (sixteen game) 2017 regular season as a benchmark it would have tied for eighth, with Kirk Cousins. Now I admit that's an inexact comparison, because the quarterbacks above and below that 27 total also had time with receivers out. But I ran these numbers up-threat because someone said Taylor needed a "college type offense" to succeed, which was crudely stupid. And here? Let's be clear : The problem wasn't "talent wasted", but talent which wasn't on the field over half of 2016, with Watkins running on a broken foot those games he played. This was after the Bills dumped Hogan, gave up on Harven, and Karlos imploded. And that just sets-up 2017, when the Bills dumped Woods, dumped Goodwin, dumped Watkins, dumped Gillislee, and the o-line took a huge step back because of injuries and scheme-change. That last item being the reason Bills running backs totaled 14yds, 62yds, 28yds, and 47yds over the first nine games of the season. On pass protection they went from spotty to bad, though it took the Peterman start for a lot of people to see that. I'll leave complaints about the OC to others, though they're valid.

 

Bring in Foles, Keenum, Bridgewater or McCarron and put them in the crap situation of the 2017 Bills offense and what will you get? 

I'm guessing you'll see ...... how does that go? ......... "talent wasted"

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, grb said:

 

It's like a jihad against reality itself.  Here's a reminder for the umpteenth time (plus one) : Over the two years of 2015 & 2016 whenever Taylor had Watkins and Woods on the field, this happened : 63.6% comp,  8.25 ypa, 27 TD passes, 6 ints.

 

But it was 27 td passes over FIFTEEN GAMES, as was clearly noted. Is that great? Maybe not, but using the (sixteen game) 2017 regular season as a benchmark it would have tied for eighth, with Kirk Cousins. Now I admit that's an inexact comparison, because the quarterbacks above and below that 27 total also had time with receivers out. But I ran these numbers up-threat because someone said Taylor needed a "college type offense" to succeed, which was crudely stupid. And here? Let's be clear : The problem wasn't "talent wasted", but talent which wasn't on the field over half of 2016, with Watkins running on a broken foot those games he played. This was after the Bills dumped Hogan, gave up on Harven, and Karlos imploded. And that just sets-up 2017, when the Bills dumped Woods, dumped Goodwin, dumped Watkins, dumped Gillislee, and the o-line took a huge step back because of injuries and scheme-change. That last item being the reason Bills running backs totaled 14yds, 62yds, 28yds, and 47yds over the first nine games of the season. On pass protection they went from spotty to bad, though it took the Peterman start for a lot of people to see that. I'll leave complaints about the OC to others, though they're valid.

 

Bring in Foles, Keenum, Bridgewater or McCarron and put them in the crap situation of the 2017 Bills offense and what will you get? 

I'm guessing you'll see ...... how does that go? ......... "talent wasted"

Thank you Adisa Bakari.

[grb]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Thank you Adisa Bakari.

 

I wish I got paid as much as Mr. Bakari........

[Livinginthepast]

Foles is obviously capable of brilliance. These Philly  playoff games were some of the best played games by any QB ever. The problem is inconsistency. Foles has never shown the ability to sustain this brilliance over the course of a season or more than one season in a row. That's always been his problem.  Can he win another SB? Can he ever do this again? It will be interesting to see.

 

At the same time Foles is an amazing example of coaches working with the talent they had and the limitations and producing an offensive plan that worked perfectly. It just seems so obvious looking at what Reich and Pedersen did with Foles, tailor your offense to what he does well and play to his strengths. Yet over and over again we see these boneheaded, stubborn coaches who want their players to fit their scheme and wont accommodate anything. Dennison was probably one of the worst coaches I have ever seen who didn't bother to adjust his scheme for a QB and was terrified to trust his QB to execute any complex play.  Now TT may have derailed him by being overly cautious but I get the impression that Dennison was too full of himself to change anything for his QB. I think that as the NFL has expanded over the past 25 years the talent pool and the concentration of quality intelligent coaches has plummeted to an all time low.  I can only hope we might get a return to common sense coaching  in the future to compensate!

[BigBuff423]

I don't think i can find it with the board update, but I wish I could retrieve (and if someone knows, just tell me how) the discussion I was involved with on this board last year.....looking back on it, honestly, I feel people were always ready to stomp on anyone with a thought that is outside the box or not sparkling with an obvious "Can't miss!" take....I said it last year, Foles is a very capable QB, in the right system and on the right team. He is not Favre or some other HOFer who will thrive no matter where you put him, but placing him in the aforementioned parameters, he's a very good and certainly capable QB of making the Offense tick. JMO....

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Magox said:

To be fair, at worst it would be a 2 hit wonder.   It's hard to call a whole season as good as 2013 just a fluke and then to see him do even better in the playoffs against some good defenses again.

 

2016 with Andy Reid in KC, Foles played 3/4 of one game and start the next - and pretty well killed it, 3 TD, 0 INT, >65% completions, 7.45 YPA.  Not many passing yards but they were winning both games.

 

I guess where I am is, if a guy can pull off quality games over several seasons, you know he can do it consistently in the right situation. 

You just need to look at just what that situation is, and ask if you can provide it.

 

16 hours ago, whatdrought said:

 

The thing that is very interesting to me about all of this is that I am always hearing little "asides" about this subject that say that the Eagles are very high on Nate Sudfeld. Obviously its hard for us outsiders to see that as anything to pay attention to, but then again, we wrote off Foles to begin with. 

 

If they're feeling very comfortable with Wentz and they think Sudfeld ~= Foles, they'll surely deal Foles while he's a hot property.  OTOH, if they do deal an NFC/SB Champion QB who played balls-to-the-wall, Wentz isn't quite rehabbed or re-injures, and Sudfeld is "not all that" in live action, they'll look mighty dumb.

 

Aside: can anyone confirm what is Foles nickname in the Eagles locker room?

Edited February 6, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[707BillsFan]

3 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

LOL  - "All of which is to say: Sean Mannion is already a 2018 MVP candidate."

 

Exactly, so we're looking at this all wrong. The guy we should be targeting is Mannion. Probably had for a box of donuts. Paula, get that special box ready! 

[whatdrought]

22 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

2016 with Andy Reid in KC, Foles played 3/4 of one game and start the next - and pretty well killed it, 3 TD, 0 INT, >65% completions, 7.45 YPA.  Not many passing yards but they were winning both games.

 

I guess where I am is, if a guy can pull off quality games over several seasons, you know he can do it consistently in the right situation. 

You just need to look at just what that situation is, and ask if you can provide it.

 

 

If they're feeling very comfortable with Wentz and they think Sudfeld ~= Foles, they'll surely deal Foles while he's a hot property.  OTOH, if they do deal an NFC/SB Champion QB who played balls-to-the-wall, Wentz isn't quite rehabbed or re-injures, and Sudfeld is "not all that" in live action, they'll look mighty dumb.

 

Aside: can anyone confirm what is Foles nickname in the Eagles locker room?

 

The reason that I think the Eagles will trade him (and this all goes out the window depending on Wentz surgery) is because they're cap strapped (under $5m) and they don't great draft picks (1, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6). Not that trading him saves that much cap (less than $8m if i'm not mistaken) but it does free up a bit and a second round pick is valuable. 

 

Now, with that said, they have very few holes (even with FA) and they may see insurance as more important than growth. 

[SoTier]

 

18 hours ago, LA Grant said:

 

Been saying this all year: I'd just like to see what Tyrod looks like with a season of consistent receivers, in a modern RPO offense, with a play caller that believes in him. I'd happily take Foles, but whoever is QB, I'd like to see the team able to provide those things. And Foles is the only QB on the market including rookies I'd want over Tyrod, but that's just me.

 

How many simple slants and quick inside/outside routes did we see in the SB versus how many did we run this year? It's the same routes constantly just in different formations. It's so simple for the QB, and with RPO, much simpler to read the defenses. Your throws are either there, or they aren't. So you either check at the line to hand-off, or you take a look then scramble. I only want Tyrod in the pocket if it's play action, otherwise, stay wide in shotgun. It seems so simple but watching the Bills you'd think it's alien. 

 

The Bills pretty much have the personnel, minus a power RB and line depth -- if Benjamin, Zay, Clay, and Thompson can stay healthy and they can get into a rhythm with a simple offense. I am vaguely optimistic Brian Daboll will turn out to be in the mold of younger, more flexible, aggressive offensive mind like Doug Pederson, Frank Reich, Sean McVay, et al. Get your QB, keep it simple, then get aggressive. Imagine QB & Shady co-calling plays in no huddle K-Gun. Simple, fast, QB friendly, plays to our strengths. 

 

 

This.    The real problem with the Bills offense last season was the OC.  He not only forced Taylor into a system that didn't fit him, his insistence on changing the OL blocking scheme seriously compromised that unit's play as well; the OL never played consistently well all season.  It didn't help that Dennison's 1950ish conservatism and the Bills lack of downfield speed enabled teams to disrespect their passing game.

 

 

17 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Since he's under contract and they'll have $2.4M of dead cap to pay off whether he stays or goes (plus whatever they pay the replacement backup to whittle away at their cap savings) - I think the Eagles keep Foles at least until they are sure Wentz is 100% - probably just before training camp, possibly preseason

 

Then they hope for a contender who has a QB injury and will offer them something big

 

I could be wrong - the Eagles do have a tight cap situation and Foles 2018 $7M roster bonus and salary would help quite a ways, so they may be willing to pick up the phone and take offers.

 

As to why he wouldn't be a good fit for the Bills, a lot depends upon Daboll and the offseason.  If he doesn't have WR to throw to and an OL that gives him time, don't expect success.

 

He's probably not a good fit for the Bills because the Bills don't have a good pass blocking OL and have a lousy WR corps ( in contrast, the Eagles have one of the best two OLs in the league and excellent receivers).  Bringing Foles without major upgrades to those units is a recipe for being here in February, 2019 reading post after post whining about how disappointing Foles is.

 

[SoCal Deek]

This board is all over the place....as is to be expected. But as for me, if it’s between the reigning Super Bowl MVP and Kirk Cousins, I’ll take the guy who’s actually just won meaningful playoff games every day! And if what I was hearing on one of the networks is true, that you can get Foles for a second round pick?....where do we sign? No brainer!

[dave mcbride]

13 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

 

Indeed!
 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

Is Buffalo the Best Landing Spot for Nick Foles?  (2:38)

[Real McClappy]

4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Is Buffalo the Best Landing Spot for Nick Foles?  (2:38)

All for this.

Get Foles and use one of 2 1st rd picks on a QB that slides to us.