Kelly vs Marino -- Bills dominance

[Logic]

So I fell down a Youtube rabbit hole today that wound up with me watching highlights from a 1995 Bills-Dolphins game (which the Bills won).

At the end of the game, Berman shows a graphic detailing Bills vs Dolphins matchups from 1987-1995. In 20 contests (regular seasons and playoffs), the Bills held a 16-4 edge over the Phins, with an average of 155 rushing yards per game, and with 7 games of 200 or more rushing yards. 

I found this to be a pretty astonishing statistic. I was young in those days, but have always accepted it as general fact that the Bills dominated the Phins in those years. I don't think I realized quite HOW lopsided the matchup was, though. Marino vs Kelly is often fondly referred to as a great rivalry, but 16-4? Not much of a rivalry at all, really.

For those who remember actually watching most of those games, why is it that the Bills seemed to have Miami's number? Was it poor Miami rush defense? (that's certainly what the rushing yards per game stats would point to!), was Miami's defense generally BAD a lot of the time? I'm looking at a Shula-coached, Marino-quarterbacked team, and I can't seem to figure out how Levy's Bills so thoroughly owned them in the win-loss department.

Thoughts?

[Augie]

My first thought is 0 for the ‘70’s. We lost 20 straight, and Karma is a B****.  Now I’m somewhat traumatized thinking of that, and may come back later with other thoughts....

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

11 minutes ago, Logic said:

So I fell down a Youtube rabbit hole today that wound up with me watching highlights from a 1995 Bills-Dolphins game (which the Bills won).

At the end of the game, Berman shows a graphic detailing Bills vs Dolphins matchups from 1987-1995. In 20 contests (regular seasons and playoffs), the Bills held a 16-4 edge over the Phins, with an average of 155 rushing yards per game, and with 7 games of 200 or more rushing yards. 

I found this to be a pretty astonishing statistic. I was young in those days, but have always accepted it as general fact that the Bills dominated the Phins in those years. I don't think I realized quite HOW lopsided the matchup was, though. Marino vs Kelly is often fondly referred to as a great rivalry, but 16-4? Not much of a rivalry at all, really.

For those who remember actually watching most of those games, why is it that the Bills seemed to have Miami's number? Was it poor Miami rush defense? (that's certainly what the rushing yards per game stats would point to!), was Miami's defense generally BAD a lot of the time? I'm looking at a Shula-coached, Marino-quarterbacked team, and I can't seem to figure out how Levy's Bills so thoroughly owned them in the win-loss department.

Thoughts?

Honestly Marino WAS the Dolphins. That's all they really had in those years. He was an amazing talent at the QB position, that unfortunately was surrounded with absolutely zero in the running game most years. 

[Augie]

Marino didn’t believe in running the ball, and he called the shots. When he tore the Achilles it was all over. But what a release! Wow.

[Big Turk]

25 minutes ago, Logic said:

So I fell down a Youtube rabbit hole today that wound up with me watching highlights from a 1995 Bills-Dolphins game (which the Bills won).

At the end of the game, Berman shows a graphic detailing Bills vs Dolphins matchups from 1987-1995. In 20 contests (regular seasons and playoffs), the Bills held a 16-4 edge over the Phins, with an average of 155 rushing yards per game, and with 7 games of 200 or more rushing yards. 

I found this to be a pretty astonishing statistic. I was young in those days, but have always accepted it as general fact that the Bills dominated the Phins in those years. I don't think I realized quite HOW lopsided the matchup was, though. Marino vs Kelly is often fondly referred to as a great rivalry, but 16-4? Not much of a rivalry at all, really.

For those who remember actually watching most of those games, why is it that the Bills seemed to have Miami's number? Was it poor Miami rush defense? (that's certainly what the rushing yards per game stats would point to!), was Miami's defense generally BAD a lot of the time? I'm looking at a Shula-coached, Marino-quarterbacked team, and I can't seem to figure out how Levy's Bills so thoroughly owned them in the win-loss department.

Thoughts?

 

It was, and that wasn't including the playoffs where the Bills were 4-0 I think against them during that time...we ended their seasons routinely in the playoffs...

 

[jr1]

they were 1 dimensional. Dan had 11 seasons of more than 500 passing attempts

[Livinginthepast]

31 minutes ago, Logic said:

So I fell down a Youtube rabbit hole today that wound up with me watching highlights from a 1995 Bills-Dolphins game (which the Bills won).

At the end of the game, Berman shows a graphic detailing Bills vs Dolphins matchups from 1987-1995. In 20 contests (regular seasons and playoffs), the Bills held a 16-4 edge over the Phins, with an average of 155 rushing yards per game, and with 7 games of 200 or more rushing yards. 

I found this to be a pretty astonishing statistic. I was young in those days, but have always accepted it as general fact that the Bills dominated the Phins in those years. I don't think I realized quite HOW lopsided the matchup was, though. Marino vs Kelly is often fondly referred to as a great rivalry, but 16-4? Not much of a rivalry at all, really.

For those who remember actually watching most of those games, why is it that the Bills seemed to have Miami's number? Was it poor Miami rush defense? (that's certainly what the rushing yards per game stats would point to!), was Miami's defense generally BAD a lot of the time? I'm looking at a Shula-coached, Marino-quarterbacked team, and I can't seem to figure out how Levy's Bills so thoroughly owned them in the win-loss department.

Thoughts?

Watching that Bills era reminds me of why I am a Bills fan. I loved being confident about the Bills esp when they played the Dolphins. It was just such great football. Even though the stats are heavily in our favor, there are a lot of really good close games in that period vs the Fins. Somehow Kelly would always find a way to get it done.  Miami had no run game and if we could get pressure or jam the receivers at the line, Marino would be crippled in his abilities. Great chess matches between Marv and Shula as well. Great memories. The season opener vs Miami in 1989 was the best game for me of this era:

 

 

[Dadonkadonk]

It was Thurman Thomas not Kelly that made the difference in those games.  Marino was a far superior QB though Kelly was a perfect QB for the K-gun and the Buffalo weather.  Marv never outcoached anyone.  Marv was the beneficiary of one of the top 5 GMs in the history of the NFL.  To Marv's credit he created a culture that was able to overcome the bickering Bills and somehow get a team to battle back year after year.  I am still amazed he made the HOF.  He was outcoached by Parcells/Belichick, Gibbs, and Johnson.   

I don't now what the hell happened to Shula in the 80's.  He had the premier QB in the NFL with a superior O-line(yes Marino made them look better than they probably were) and superstar WRs.  Even drafting middle to late, he should have been able to acquire the pieces necessary to get to more than one SuperBowl in an era when the AC was so weak.

[nucci]

8 hours ago, Logic said:

So I fell down a Youtube rabbit hole today that wound up with me watching highlights from a 1995 Bills-Dolphins game (which the Bills won).

At the end of the game, Berman shows a graphic detailing Bills vs Dolphins matchups from 1987-1995. In 20 contests (regular seasons and playoffs), the Bills held a 16-4 edge over the Phins, with an average of 155 rushing yards per game, and with 7 games of 200 or more rushing yards. 

I found this to be a pretty astonishing statistic. I was young in those days, but have always accepted it as general fact that the Bills dominated the Phins in those years. I don't think I realized quite HOW lopsided the matchup was, though. Marino vs Kelly is often fondly referred to as a great rivalry, but 16-4? Not much of a rivalry at all, really.

For those who remember actually watching most of those games, why is it that the Bills seemed to have Miami's number? Was it poor Miami rush defense? (that's certainly what the rushing yards per game stats would point to!), was Miami's defense generally BAD a lot of the time? I'm looking at a Shula-coached, Marino-quarterbacked team, and I can't seem to figure out how Levy's Bills so thoroughly owned them in the win-loss department.

Thoughts?

Kelly understood the value of a good running game. Marino never did

[BreezeMafia]

8 hours ago, Logic said:

So I fell down a Youtube rabbit hole today that wound up with me watching highlights from a 1995 Bills-Dolphins game (which the Bills won).

At the end of the game, Berman shows a graphic detailing Bills vs Dolphins matchups from 1987-1995. In 20 contests (regular seasons and playoffs), the Bills held a 16-4 edge over the Phins, with an average of 155 rushing yards per game, and with 7 games of 200 or more rushing yards. 

I found this to be a pretty astonishing statistic. I was young in those days, but have always accepted it as general fact that the Bills dominated the Phins in those years. I don't think I realized quite HOW lopsided the matchup was, though. Marino vs Kelly is often fondly referred to as a great rivalry, but 16-4? Not much of a rivalry at all, really.

For those who remember actually watching most of those games, why is it that the Bills seemed to have Miami's number? Was it poor Miami rush defense? (that's certainly what the rushing yards per game stats would point to!), was Miami's defense generally BAD a lot of the time? I'm looking at a Shula-coached, Marino-quarterbacked team, and I can't seem to figure out how Levy's Bills so thoroughly owned them in the win-loss department.

Thoughts?

 

I remember quite well.  One of the key reasons for the Bills dominance was the change over in rosters - Bills hitting on draft picks like Kelly, Talley, Smith, Reed, Burroughs, Wolford and so on + Free Agent pick ups like Hull and Tasker.  The '87 game in Miami coming out of the strike was a true turning point as the Bills came back from I think down 21 - 3 to win in OT.  Later in '87 we stomped the Fins at Rich Stadium 21 - 0, I was at the game.  So while our roster was on the upswing, the Dolphins were changing over from the the early '80's teams that went to 2 Super Bowls and 4 conference championship games. 

[mead107]

12 minutes ago, BillsinChesterSprings said:

 

I remember quite well.  One of the key reasons for the Bills dominance was the change over in rosters - Bills hitting on draft picks like Kelly, Talley, Smith, Reed, Burroughs, Wolford and so on + Free Agent pick ups like Hull and Tasker.  The '87 game in Miami coming out of the strike was a true turning point as the Bills came back from I think down 21 - 3 to win in OT.  Later in '87 we stomped the Fins at Rich Stadium 21 - 0, I was at the game.  So while our roster was on the upswing, the Dolphins were changing over from the the early '80's teams that went to 2 Super Bowls and 4 conference championship games. 

?

[bmur66]

Thurman Thomas

[Nuncha]

5 minutes ago, bmur66 said:

Thurman Thomas

Dolphins never had the running game Buffalo had. Thomas was the dolphin killer.

[Matt_In_NH]

First and foremost the Bills had more talent across the board.  They also won all the playoff games between the Dolphins and Bills during that time frame.   But secondarily I believe the Dolphins had a fatal flaw during those years in that they refused to commit to running the ball and let Marino have too much control over the offense.  All you had to do was get them down by a score and they would immeditatly become pass only.  This played into the Bills hands because they had good pass rushers.  Bruce used to hammer Marino continuously while almost never getting a sack but the hits and pressure took a toll.  Knowing the would not try to run allowed Bruce to just rush the passer which is what he did well.

[Helpmenow]

Tony Nathan, Lorenzo Hampton and Sammie smith had some decent years there. Not Thomas years of course. They did have some of a running game by committee.

 

mark Higgs had some real good years look it up before you say they didnt

Edited December 20, 2017 by Helpmenow

[Charles Romes]

Thank you Tom Olivadotti 

Edited December 20, 2017 by Charles Romes

[Gordio]

Bills had a better team the  Phins back then.  I don't think anybody could say Kelly was a better QB than Marino though.  When we did run into them in the playoffs we usually got them up here(although we did play the AFC championship game down there one year) & 30 & younger crowd probably don't remember this but we were dam near impossible to beat at home in those glory years. 

[mjt328]

The Bills were a much better team from top to bottom.  Better running back.  Better receivers.  Better O-Line.  Better defense.

 

Jim Kelly wasn't the best Quarterback in the NFL during those years, but we had the offense to win a shoot-out with anyone.  Our Achilles heel was against teams with big/strong offensive lines and really good running backs.  At the time, most of those teams were in the NFC.  And we always seemed to play them in the Super Bowl.

[Beast]

8 hours ago, Dadonkadonk said:

It was Thurman Thomas not Kelly that made the difference in those games.  Marino was a far superior QB though Kelly was a perfect QB for the K-gun and the Buffalo weather.  Marv never outcoached anyone.  Marv was the beneficiary of one of the top 5 GMs in the history of the NFL.  To Marv's credit he created a culture that was able to overcome the bickering Bills and somehow get a team to battle back year after year.  I am still amazed he made the HOF.  He was outcoached by Parcells/Belichick, Gibbs, and Johnson.   

I don't now what the hell happened to Shula in the 80's.  He had the premier QB in the NFL with a superior O-line(yes Marino made them look better than they probably were) and superstar WRs.  Even drafting middle to late, he should have been able to acquire the pieces necessary to get to more than one SuperBowl in an era when the AC was so weak.

 

Marino was not “far superior”. Get out of here with that nonsense.

[BreezeMafia]

2 hours ago, bmur66 said:

Thurman Thomas

 

Yep.  The context of my post was intended to mean the roster building.  Biscuit and Thurman were the next 2 pillars that helped us further separate from the Dolphins.