Gronk committed deliberate, intentional, and defenseless criminal assault with his metal elbow brace

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, folz said:

 

From what I can find in a quick Google search, each state has their own laws on what a deadly weapon is and will usually list such weapons (firearms, knives, brass knuckles, etc.).

However, people have been charged with assault with a deadly weapon from things like shopping carts and a frozen fish. Every state is different, but it appears (as has happened in a number of cases), if the alleged weapon is not on the state's list, it is up to the jury to decide if it was indeed wielded as a deadly weapon. So, in one case an elbow brace might be ruled out as a deadly weapon, but in another case, a jury may decide that it was indeed used as a lethal weapon and can convict as such.

 

Any lawyers on this board who can clarify?

 

I wonder if it was an Asian carp.

[corta765]

1 minute ago, Paulus said:

Lmao, what a load of crap. It was because it happened maliciously and outside the scope of the game. 

 

Right hitting a guy late after a play with an elbow, as opposed to grabbing a guy forcing his head and neck into the ground as hard as possible and then proceeding to punch him repeatedly which ended his career and broke his neck altering his life forever seems like a bit of a difference.

[HappyDays]

 

10 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

No, not wrong. We are talking about charging him with the crime of assault with a deadly weapon which wouldn’t happen because an elbow brace isn’t a deadly weapon according to the law.

 

This is still wrong. An elbow brace could definitely be classified as a deadly weapon. Literally anything could be under the right circumstances.

[corta765]

5 minutes ago, mannc said:

How did you reach this conclusion?  We don't have to read peoples' minds; intent is inferred from their actions.  If I punch someone in the face, the law will correctly presume that I intended to injure him.

 

You don't think Gronkowski's hit could have done the same to White? 

 

Probably because if you had any reading comprehension he said as much after the game that he was pissed wanted to hit him but didn't intended to hurt him. In Moore's case by Bertuzzi it was known before the game that they wanted to get him back and take him out. That's premeditated.

 

And Gronks hit didn't do the same to White. If White had a broken neck and taken out on a stretcher yea I'd want criminal charges. That's not the case and context matters.

[mannc]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

No, it's not stupid at all. The correct analogy would be this: MMA fighter, after a round is clearly over, picks up a folding chair and strikes his opponent with it, WWE style. That is clearly outside the scope of the game/rules.  Criminal liability is a stretch, but of course that's fact dependent. If a full minute had passed and Gronk went after Tre with the metal elbow brace on the sidelines, it would be pretty clear cut. So it's in a gray area that would be very unlikely to result in prosecution, since the prosecutor would have to prove intent to inflict a late hit rather than confusion about when the play ended (and with a reasonable doubt standard). Civil liability is also a possibility. The only thing that stops that from happening is a Tre type victim is hesitant to sue an opponent since that would be frowned upon by everyone in the NFL world, including the league, ownership, teammates, and even the union. But there's no legal impediment to suing that I'm aware of. Again, it would be a question of proof. 

Unlikely though it is, we also can't discount the possibility that a Patriot (or other visiting team) hating publicity seeking DA might someday go the criminal route. Again, I see nothing that would stop it. It's workplace violence, just in an unusual workplace ....

I believe you are correct.  An act that occurs after the play is clearly over, with an obvious intent to injure is not subject to the "It's all part of the game" defense. 

[yungmack]

1 hour ago, Jobot said:

Let's take it easy.... more than half of this fan base frustration is that the Pats just dominated and will continue to dominate the Bills so long as Brady is around.  Cheap shot... Yes... Criminal act... come on now...

 

The way White was holding him all game... it's understandable that Gronk's frustration would have been at a high level.  Although what he did is still not acceptable, it is understandable.

You sound like the kind of guy that if you were an attorney and your client murdered his parents, you would plead for leniency because he was an orphan.

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, fridge said:

 

It also ended that guys career.

 

Gronk’s hit could have ended White’s career. If he had pulled out a knife and stabbed him in the leg but White had lived he still would have had criminal charges filed. It doesn’t look as shocking as a knife to the leg but what Gronk did is just as dangerous. Attacks the neck and head, with a meta brace, on a defenseless player, after the play is over. It’s egregious enough to be criminal.

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

She was got cold cocked in the head by a fist, Gronk elbowed they guy on the ground in the head with a metal brace, yes i think they are in the same universe.  Both were defenseless.  Difference is she was a female, he was an athlete with some protective gear.  I dont think you would have that sentiment if Gronk broke his beck and paralyzed him

 

You're right.

 

Male - Female

Wearing protective gear - wearing a dress

Professional football player (5'11, 192) - small woman, probably under 5'

 

I don't play "if" games.  He didn't break his back (or his neck, whatever you meant) and he didn't paralyze him.

[thunderingsquid]

2 hours ago, Jigsaw2112 said:

He should take that nonsense to the WWE where it belongs.  Although the NFL is starting to look more like "sports entertainment" every day.

 

They both have the same exact business license.  Explains a lot. 

 

The only difference is that WWE "athletes" are in on it. 

[HappyDays]

6 minutes ago, folz said:

 

From what I can find in a quick Google search, each state has their own laws on what a deadly weapon is and will usually list such weapons (firearms, knives, brass knuckles, etc.).

However, people have been charged with assault with a deadly weapon from things like shopping carts and a frozen fish. Every state is different, but it appears (as has happened in a number of cases), if the alleged weapon is not on the state's list, it is up to the jury to decide if it was indeed wielded as a deadly weapon. So, in one case an elbow brace might be ruled out as a deadly weapon, but in another case, a jury may decide that it was indeed used as a lethal weapon and can convict as such.

 

Any lawyers on this board who can clarify?

 

I’m not a lawyer but I have studied law and yes this is 100% correct. The law can be applied in a million different ways.

[mannc]

1 minute ago, corta765 said:

 

Probably because if you had any reading comprehension he said as much after the game that he was pissed wanted to hit him but didn't intended to hurt him. In Moore's case by Bertuzzi it was known before the game that they wanted to get him back and take him out. That's premeditated.

 

And Gronks hit didn't do the same to White. If White had a broken neck and taken out on a stretcher yea I'd want criminal charges. That's not the case and context matters.

And you believe him??  What he says after the fact is irrelevant anyway (unless he confessed to wanting to maim White).  As I pointed out before, Gronkowski's intent is inferred from his videotaped actions, not the lame excuse he offers up after the game.

[HappyDays]

Take it from an expert on brains and concussions:

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Gronk’s hit could have ended White’s career. If he had pulled out a knife and stabbed him in the leg but White had lived he still would have had criminal charges filed. It doesn’t look as shocking as a knife to the leg but what Gronk did is just as dangerous. Attacks the neck and head, with a meta brace, on a defenseless player, after the play is over. It’s egregious enough to be criminal.

 

This is a bit much Happy.  There is a major difference between stabbing a guy on the ground in a football game than elbowing a guy with a helmet on.

He should be suspended for the rest of the season but not egregious enough for it to be a crime.

[Bangarang]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

 

This is still wrong. An elbow brace could definitely be classified as a deadly weapon. Literally anything could be under the right circumstances.

 

It’s not considered a deadly weapon in NY state according to the state’s Penal law. I don’t know how else to tell you this. 

Edited December 4, 2017 by Bangarang

[Lfod]

https://www.google.com/amp/news10.com/2017/03/21/man-charged-with-assault-with-a-deadly-weapon-for-tweeting-gif-to-newsweek-writer/amp/

[RoyBatty is alive]

3 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

You're right.

 

Male - Female

Wearing protective gear - wearing a dress

Professional football player (5'11, 192) - small woman, probably under 5'

 

I don't play "if" games.  He didn't break his back (or his neck, whatever you meant) and he didn't paralyze him.

You don't play "if" games, sure about that?  i will remember that for the future.

 

Oh and as far as how big she is, i just saw a picture of the two, they actually look about the sames size, I dont know how tall Ray Rice is but something tells me he is not under 5'.

[PatsFanNH]

11 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I believe Moore was unconscious on the ice for 10 minutes and suffered a broken neck....never played again.

I bit more serious than White.

I agree Gronk should be suspended, but that hit was nothing like that one or as a Bruins fan the one that ended the career of one of our star players a few years back  (he was cheap shorted by a penguin and he never played again.) 

 

as for the the length of the suspension I could see 2 games heck I could see 4 games. But knowing how scared Goodell is right now with Jerry jones  angry at him I have NO IDEA what he will do. 

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

You don't play "if" games, sure about that?  i will remember that for the future.

 

Oh and as far as how big she is, i just saw a picture of the two, they actually look about the sames size, I dont know how tall Ray Rice is but something tells me he is not under 5'.

 

I assume you don't have a daughter.  And if you do, I feel bad for her.

[HappyDays]

Just now, Bangarang said:

 

It’s not considered a deadly weapon in NY state. I don’t know how else to tell you this. Go learn NY state penal law and get back to me when you’ve educated yourself.

 

There is no list of official deadly weapons. I can’t explain this more than I already have. There is room for disagreement on whether this hit is criminal, but there is no debate that a metal brace can be classified as a deadly weapon under the right circumstances. If there’s a real lawyer here they will back me up.

[dorquemada]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Take it from an expert on brains and concussions:

 

 

 

 

furthermore, we don't really know the extent of White's injury yet.  just because a guy gets up off the mat doesn't mean that there isnt long term damage.  Gronk should pay, either through league discipline, or if the bills have one ounce of pride, make sure one of the Pat's critical players get similar treatment.