26CornerBlitz Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Perception of Belichick Around League (4:48) Quote The "Inside the NFL" crews talks about the perception of New England Patriots head coach Bill Belichick around the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Dang I always thought Ray Lewis HATED BB and Brady. ? must just been his competitive juices when they faced eachother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Lets face it, the combination of BB and TB is the best there ever was in the NFL. No way around it. Now, I think Brady alone would have still been the GOAT, but not so sure if BB would be the GOAT without Brady, especially in this QB driven Era. Even without Brady, BB probably top 5 all time. Love the way he attacks, changes game plans loved the eligible/ineligible stuff in the Ravens game, loved going for it on 4th and 2 even though it did not work,.guy just out thinks most coaches. Always amazes me when still lapses into NFL coach think sometimes, and that would be only reason why he may not be the GOAT..he knows better, but can still have those brainfarts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: Lets face it, the combination of BB and TB is the best there ever was in the NFL. No way around it. Now, I think Brady alone would have still been the GOAT, but not so sure if BB would be the GOAT without Brady, especially in this QB driven Era. Even without Brady, BB probably top 5 all time. Love the way he attacks, changes game plans loved the eligible/ineligible stuff in the Ravens game, loved going for it on 4th and 2 even though it did not work,.guy just out thinks most coaches. Always amazes me when still lapses into NFL coach think sometimes, and that would be only reason why he may not be the GOAT..he knows better, but can still have those brainfarts Long time ago, but history says Paul Brown and Otto Graham are the greatest coach/QB combo. Lombardi and Starr were also dominant. In the modern era, Walsh and Montana are the best IMO. Edited December 1, 2017 by 26CornerBlitz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Long time ago, history says Paul Brown and Otto Graham are the greatest coach/QB combo. Lombardi and Starr were also dominant. In the modern era, Walsh and Montana are the best IMO. I don't know man. Joe Montana is tied with Vinny Testaverde for game winning drives, while Brady is tied for 2nd with Marino. That's the only applicable stat to QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Long time ago, history says Paul Brown and Otto Graham are the greatest coach/QB combo. Lombardi and Starr were also dominant. In the modern era, Walsh and Montana are the best IMO. I cant comment on the first two combo's, just a bit before my time, but I will take BB/TB over BW/JM really based a ton on the salary cap and free agency. I just think they are doing it in a much tougher era for prolonged success, and over a longer period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 1 minute ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: I don't know man. Joe Montana is tied with Vinny Testaverde for game winning drives, while Brady is tied for 2nd with Marino. That's the only applicable stat to QBs. ....Joe+Brady= NINE Lombardis.........not applicable?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....Joe+Brady= NINE Lombardis.........not applicable?.... Nope. Just Game Winning Drives. Learned that right here on this board! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said: Nope. Just Game Winning Drives. Learned that right here on this board! ...all that hardware goes to waste......oh well..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 1 minute ago, plenzmd1 said: I cant comment on the first two combo's, just a bit before my time, but I will take BB/TB over BW/JM really based a ton on the salary cap and free agency. I just think they are doing it in a much tougher era for prolonged success, and over a longer period of time. BB/TB have barely squeaked by in SB wins, were handed two by SEA and ATL and then there's the whole cheating element. OTOH, BW/JM never lost a SB and generally crushed opponents. All a matter of opinion as both combos have achieved greatly. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: BB/TB have barely squeaked by in SB wins, were handed two by SEA and ATL and then there's the whole cheating element. OTOH, BW/JM never lost a SB and generally crushed opponents. All a matter of opinion as both combos have achieved greatly. They were also handed one against the Rams. Friggin Mike Martz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 3 minutes ago, stevewin said: They were also handed one against the Rams. Friggin Mike Martz Martz did not excel that day to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc11 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Don't forget, Montana also played in the era that you could actually hit the QB. He also didn't have all these rules favoring the passing offense. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlonce Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 9 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Nope. Just Game Winning Drives. Learned that right here on this board! Thats good stat to use,not completion percentage. Hell,I could throw swing passes to a running back all day long and get my percentage rate up. What those GOATS have in common are they perform,notably in crunch time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris66 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 17 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Long time ago, but history says Paul Brown and Otto Graham are the greatest coach/QB combo. Lombardi and Starr were also dominant. In the modern era, Walsh and Montana are the best IMO. When you look atnit in the same context Brady/Belichick combo even beats Brown and Graham out. The nfl championship game was like the old baseball pennant games. So todays conference championship game would be equal to yesteryear's nfl championship game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 1 minute ago, Chris66 said: When you look atnit in the same context Brady/Belichick combo even beats Brown and Graham out. The nfl championship game was like the old baseball pennant games. So todays conference championship game would be equal to yesteryear's nfl championship game. Not exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlonce Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 12 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: BB/TB have barely squeaked by in SB wins, were handed two by SEA and ATL and then there's the whole cheating element. OTOH, BW/JM never lost a SB and generally crushed opponents. All a matter of opinion as both combos have achieved greatly. Imagine Bill Walsh with TB. Perfect West Coast QB. Bill Walsh was one of the greatest coaches of all time. BB is helped by TB. His previous coaching gigs didn’t show his greatness. There are a couple things that make B.B. a really good coach and that his ability to adapt to situations on the fly. He has taken poor defensive showings and turned them into a solid group,regardless of personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris66 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Not exactly. Yes really, when the season ended the top 2 teams in each division played for the championship game. Today you have to play at least 2 playoff games to get to the Superbowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 17 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: BB/TB have barely squeaked by in SB wins, were handed two by SEA and ATL and then there's the whole cheating element. OTOH, BW/JM never lost a SB and generally crushed opponents. All a matter of opinion as both combos have achieved greatly. Wait the 49ers were cheaters too. Jerry Rice admitted to it. That said different eras and I hate comparing them. brady has taken the Pats to 7 SB in 14 years! (Not counting this year or year out injured) I say he deserves his place in the argument as best ever as 50% of the time your in the SB with him is shocking. Add in I think 11 AFC Championship games . That's almost 80%!!! I mean these number for TB/BB are scary. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 2 minutes ago, Chris66 said: Yes really, when the season ended the top 2 teams in each division played for the championship game. Today you have to play at least 2 playoff games to get to the Superbowl. I know the format. It was what it was. PB/OG teams would have dominated irrespective of the format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 9 minutes ago, Herc11 said: Don't forget, Montana also played in the era that you could actually hit the QB. He also didn't have all these rules favoring the passing offense. Different eras different styles of football why it's hard say who is the greatest ever. I think Brady and BB should be in the argument but def the best in the NFL since 2000, and HC is getting god awful in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaviorPeterman Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Hoodie and Brady are the GOAT period, not just in the NFL but all pro sports. Yes it sucks as Bills fans to have to watch this given our own circumstances the last 17 years and the Pats being in the same division but we'll never see something like this again and it has to be respected no matter how much you love or hate the Patriots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: I know the format. It was what it was. PB/OG teams would have dominated irrespective of the format. I disagree, they would be good. It football isn't the same game now as then. I think we should stick to greatest of their generation type titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 2 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said: Wait the 49ers were cheaters too. Jerry Rice admitted to it. That said different eras and I hate comparing them. brady has taken the Pats to 7 SB in 14 years! (Not counting this year or year out injured) I say he deserves his place in the argument as best ever as 50% of the time your in the SB with him is shocking. Add in I think 11 AFC Championship games . That's almost 80%!!! I mean these number for TB/BB are scary. Good arguments, but I'm also looking at the domination factor. The 49er's great teams faced stiffer competition within their conference while NE benefited greatly from a pathetic AFC East. They have also never crushed an opponent in a SB as I stated earlier. 3 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said: I disagree, they would be good. It football isn't the same game now as then. I think we should stick to greatest of their generation type titles. I'm not crossing eras, but instead looking at domination within an era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 1 minute ago, PatsFanNH said: Different eras different styles of football why it's hard say who is the greatest ever. I think Brady and BB should be in the argument but def the best in the NFL since 2000, and HC is getting god awful in the NFL. The thing is, every football coach today is in Paul Brown's "coaching tree." He changed the job, and the way football is coached, irrevocably . He was even using a crude form of analytics. Also, starting in his AAFC days, he had black players when no other professional sport had any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Cheating culture.....enough said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: Good arguments, but I'm also looking at the domination factor. The 49er's great teams faced stiffer competition within their conference while NE benefited greatly from a pathetic AFC East. They have also never crushed an opponent in a SB as I stated earlier. Your right they never crushed an opponent. The 49ers also had the same team year in and year out while the only constant on all 7 pats teams is Brady and BB. Would they have been so dominant with FA and losing say Rice or Clark or any of their unsung D heros in FA? We don't know because they didn't have to deal with it. Would the Pats have crushed teams with a stable lineup and growing better every year? We don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 4 minutes ago, Chris66 said: 49ers had Saints Rams and Atlanta not exactly world beaters. The point was that they had to get past Gibbs' Redskins, Parcells' Giants, and Ditka's Bears in the NFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: The point was that they had to get past Gibbs' Redskins, Parcells' Giants, and Ditka's Bears in the NFC. Pats Had Peyton Colts and Broncos and we had the Steelers, and Ravens as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris66 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: The point was that they had to get past Gibbs' Redskins, Parcells' Giants, and Ditka's Bears in the NFC. Agree completely there. The problem with todays nfl is 80% of the head coaches suck. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Great point! I am obviously bias but I put BB as the Best HC in the NFL and then I see: Tomlin Carroll Andy Reid (?) and I can't think of another coach right now that is top tier good. Some are tonsoon tell but ya... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris66 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Tomlin isnt good. Steelers win inspite of him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 24 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Good arguments, but I'm also looking at the domination factor. The 49er's great teams faced stiffer competition within their conference while NE benefited greatly from a pathetic AFC East. They have also never crushed an opponent in a SB as I stated earlier. I'm not crossing eras, but instead looking at domination within an era. Montana and Walsh had the benefit of a pretty solid and stable offensive roster year after year. Montana (backed by Young), Rice, Clark, Craig year after year, plus some legendary defensive players. 6 HOF players from that stretch. 3 SBs for BW/JM. When he is done, who will be the greatest WRs that Brady played with for more than a year or two? Which RBs? Who are the future HOFers? Brady has thrown TDs to 67 different receivers. Montana to 36. BB and TB have 5 SB wins with wildly different lineups. The pats regularly jettison top players and just keep rolling on in an era of free agency nothing like what existed 30 years ago. JM won a SB with Seifert. So did Young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinnearlysghost88 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 (edited) Luke-warm take: Neither BB or TB go on to be successful alone. They need each other. TB has the tools, mental processing, competitiveness to run BBs style of offense. BB needs Brady to executive/adapt to complex and ever-changing styles of play. If TB is on another team, he's a decent QB, but he struggles through coaching changes, scheme changes, and coaches forcing him to play to his weaknesses sometimes. He ends up being more an Eli or Joe F. If BB doesn't have TB, he's still a good coach, but not dominant. Probably cycles through 2-4 QBs in his career that all produce varying levels of success. Perhaps he wins 1-2 Super Bowls still. Edited December 1, 2017 by quinnearlysghost88 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said: Wait the 49ers were cheaters too. Jerry Rice admitted to it. Pretty brash statement coming from a pats***** fan. So why not post up a link with your trash talk here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 9 minutes ago, Best Player Available said: Pretty brash statement coming from a pats***** fan. So why not post up a link with your trash talk here. OMG they used sticum when he was playing he said that when bashing Brady during deflategate. When they all went " that was illegal" he shut up. That said im not getting into that rabbit hole on cheating, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris66 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jerry-rice-on-stickum-use-all-players-did-it/amp/&ved=0ahUKEwj4msais-nXAhXiQt8KHZHXD3MQFgglMAA&usg=AOvVaw2nlcRjI__SiXif3qbGIIq6&cf=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Extremely tough to argue that any other combo aside from TB/BB are the best of all time. But someone mentioning how combos like BW/JM played/coached in different eras that didn't favor QBs and the passing game so much is interesting to think about. Would TB have thrived in that era? Who knows. For me, the thing with Belichick is that it's hard not to respect him as an all-time great coach... but there will always be some dark clouds associated with his name. Obviously the Spygate and Deflategate things. Now, people can call it straight up cheating but I don't know how much of an effect it had in actual games. What I do feel is that Belichick doesn't get the benefit of the doubt with this stuff because he's pushed the envelope and stepped over the line too many times for it to be just coincidence or ignorance of certain rules. His competitive fire is so intense that he'll push things as far as possible to win. And he's all business, which I'm certain can be a cold reality for players that played for him for a long time only to be shipped out and see their careers end in New England with a deadpan 30-second conversation of, "Player, you've been traded to Oakland, see Pete for more information, thank you for your time." Or, "Player, we're gonna move on and cut you from this team, best of luck, leave your playbook." But the thing that makes him a great pure football coach is the fact that he prepares for EVERYTHING. And he doesn't really hold his offenses or defenses to certain schemes. They morph and adjust week to week depending on the opponent. One week they can look like a run-first team with a complimentary passing game. The next week they tell Brady to air it out 50 times. Defensively it's the same. He just gets his players to be so versatile and prepared that they can pull these things off. It's crazy. Don't know of many coaches that can or will be able to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 I don't think Montana is even the best ever to play for the 49ers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaviorPeterman Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 1 minute ago, keepthefaith said: I don't think Montana is even the best ever to play for the 49ers. Agree, that's Jerry Rice who is hands down the best WR ever. Not a knock on Montana by any means as he's certainly a top 5 QB of all time but Jerry Rice truly one of the best players ever at any position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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