SaviorPeterman Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Even if we lose to the Saints as most expect, cutting these players sends the wrong message and directly contradicts big trade for Benjamin midseason. So don't see it happening if this team truly believes they have a shot this year and even with an impending loss to the Saints they are still mathematically alive for the last WC spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) Vlad is awful. Dump him and his coach too while we're at it. Davis and Holmes have played pretty well, but Davis is pretty far down the depth chart and with the addition of Benjamin and the emergence of Zay I don't see how they can say Holmes is more important than a late 3rd. Holmes is basically the #4 WR on one of the league's worst passing games. Edited November 9, 2017 by BobChalmers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaviorPeterman Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, BobChalmers said: Vlad is awful. Dump him and his coach too while we're at it. Davis and Holmes have played pretty well, but Davis is pretty far down the depth chart and with the addition of Benjamin and the emergence of Zay I don't see how they can say Holmes is more important than a late 3rd. Holmes is basically the #4 WR on one of the league's worst passing games. The point is you cutting guys who have been contributors for a 3rd round pick that we might be lucky to simply land a player like one of the 3 we cut. Not like it's the norm to quality starters beyond the 2nd round in this league. You also basically tell the locker room we are packing it in and looking ahead to next year especially if we have another ugly loss against the Saints. That's probably going to be the case anyway if this happens but you don't overtly tell the fans and team that by cutting multiple players that have worked hard and contributed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 I don't think Ducasse is the starer at RG because he's way better than Miller, I think they started him to see if he would sink or swim. He sunk. Cut Davis, Vlad and Holmes and take the 3rd, our chances of making the playoffs this year after losing to the Jets dropped significantly and I'd rather have a 3rd than a few depth players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Hauschka is part of the cuttable group too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 DiMarco has been increasing his ability to our team. We could probably cut him and re-sign him. Same with Holmes and davis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 I think the comp pick ship has sailed at this point. But Bills have surprised me a plenty this year 4 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: DiMarco has been increasing his ability to our team. We could probably cut him and re-sign him. Same with Holmes and davis what is Ducassesess contract? multi year? I like Dimarco and am holding on Holmes and Davis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 These moves should have never been made in the offseason, unfortunately we still had the wrong GM in place at the time. Sacrificing 3rd and 4th round picks for temporary depth is a complete blunder (players like Ducasse are not part of the future of this team). You could maybe cut 1 of those players at this point, but cutting 3 or 4 right now probably wouldn't sit too well in the locker room, and it sends the wrong message ("play hard and still get cut"). I'd love to see it done, but that seems like a pipe-dream at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaviorPeterman Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, QCity said: These moves should have never been made in the offseason, unfortunately we still had the wrong GM in place at the time. Sacrificing 3rd and 4th round picks for temporary depth is a complete blunder (players like Ducasse are not part of the future of this team). You could maybe cut 1 of those players at this point, but cutting 3 or 4 right now probably wouldn't sit too well in the locker room, and it sends the wrong message ("play hard and still get cut"). I'd love to see it done, but that seems like a pipe-dream at this point. I get your thoughts on this, but obviously this team needed bodies to replace players lost to FA or not resigned. And this before Beane and McD's roster purge that opened up even more holes and roster spots. Bottom line, we are arguing over a 3rd round pick (at the very end of the round where the comps are anyway) and given the assets we already have it's a moot point even after the Benjamin trade we are still in great shape. Need to stay the course and let Beane play 4D chess and continue to make moves, still a good chance we trade Glenn in the offseason and at the very least can get a 3rd rounder for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 The third round pick is a high fourth round pick. Those guys rarely pan out. If you had a fourth round pick who made as many plays as even Holmes you should be thrilled. A decent #4 WR and a decent rotation DL is better than 90% of high fourth round picks alone. Not talking about Ducasse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, SaviorPeterman said: I get your thoughts on this, but obviously this team needed bodies to replace players lost to FA or not resigned. And this before Beane and McD's roster purge that opened up even more holes and roster spots. We could have signed those bodies after the compensatory period ended on May 9th and kept our draft picks. Would we have gotten players of equal caliber to Ducasse, Holmes, and Davis? Probably not. Would we have gotten players that bring 85% of what they bring? Almost certainly, and we'd retain our picks. It's mismanagement, plain and simple. These types of moves were the hallmark of the Whaley regime. In most situations smart teams don't trade away high draft picks for rotational and depth players -- they wait until the compensatory period ends. It's really, really easy to downplay the importance of draft picks by citing stats like "only 10% of 4th round picks turn out to be starters." Keep this in mind -- Kelvin Benjamin is here because of a 3rd round pick. 15 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: The third round pick is a high fourth round pick. Those guys rarely pan out. If you had a fourth round pick who made as many plays as even Holmes you should be thrilled. A decent #4 WR and a decent rotation DL is better than 90% of high fourth round picks alone. Not talking about Ducasse. The third round pick is a third round pick. And no, teams aren't shooting for "decent" rotational or depth players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PABillsfan23 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 hour ago, BobChalmers said: Vlad is awful. Dump him and his coach too while we're at it. Davis and Holmes have played pretty well, but Davis is pretty far down the depth chart and with the addition of Benjamin and the emergence of Zay I don't see how they can say Holmes is more important than a late 3rd. Holmes is basically the #4 WR on one of the league's worst passing games. What’s this emergence of Zay Jones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 I would cut all 4 players and get the 3rd and 4th round. I'm arming myself with as many resources as possible to go get a QB or maneuver back into the 1st or 2nd rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpleman Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, White Linen said: Can you in very simpleton like terms explain what effect not being blindly loyal to the process will do? Releasing 3 marginal players Vlad, Davis and Holmes gives you 3 Million more cap next year and gets you an extra 3rd round draft pick to use as a pick next year or to bundle to draft your QB you hope will be your franchise QB. It will not make or break the chances of getting a wild card this year. None of them are someone a legitimate contender would have as a starter or should factor in a team's plan as starters in the future. Edited November 9, 2017 by simpleman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpleman Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, BringBackFergy said: Did you think letting Gilmore walk in favor of Tre White was a good idea? Just curious. They are two separate issues. Gilmore simply was too expensive for what the Bills felt his value was. I highly doubt that at the time they decided to let Gilmore walk they already were planning on trading down and drafting Tre. I think we may have still drafted Tre even if we had kept Gilmore. Luckily for the Bills, Tre so far has turned out to be a great value. There was no guarantee Tre would be so good, so soon, as a rookie. You win some, you loose some when making draft choices. I think the trading of Darby is more related to Tre's play than the drafting of Tre being related to the Bills not being willing to overpay Gilmore. Edited November 9, 2017 by simpleman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 3 hours ago, QCity said: We could have signed those bodies after the compensatory period ended on May 9th and kept our draft picks. Would we have gotten players of equal caliber to Ducasse, Holmes, and Davis? Probably not. Would we have gotten players that bring 85% of what they bring? Almost certainly, and we'd retain our picks. It's mismanagement, plain and simple. These types of moves were the hallmark of the Whaley regime. In most situations smart teams don't trade away high draft picks for rotational and depth players -- they wait until the compensatory period ends. It's really, really easy to downplay the importance of draft picks by citing stats like "only 10% of 4th round picks turn out to be starters." Keep this in mind -- Kelvin Benjamin is here because of a 3rd round pick. The third round pick is a third round pick. And no, teams aren't shooting for "decent" rotational or depth players. I would've liked to have the picks but the depth this season has been the reason we have a winning season. Guys stepping up in the clutch for guys who have been hurt or just guys taking advantage of their opportunities. I'd love to have those picks but I don't think we'd be where we are in this season without our depth. I don't consider it mismanagement in the slightest. They told us they were playing on winning now and in the future. They got draft picks by trading players that didn't fit and acquired solid depth players in free agency that have produced this season. Where is this team if three of those players are cut and we have injuries at those positions...you lose plain and simple. Depth comes at a price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Comp picks are so September. What good will they do when TT won't even throw Kelvin Benjamin the ball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 2 hours ago, simpleman said: Releasing 3 marginal players Vlad, Davis and Holmes gives you 3 Million more cap next year and gets you an extra 3rd round draft pick to use as a pick next year or to bundle to draft your QB you hope will be your franchise QB. It will not make or break the chances of getting a wild card this year. None of them are someone a legitimate contender would have as a starter or should factor in a team's plan as starters in the future. You didn't answer the question. How does not being loyal as a fan force this to happen or control things in anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Cancel Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 I think that the Bills messed up here. Davis, Vlad and Holmes should have been released to get that 3rd. Those guys are total JAGS. You might have been able to address one of the many holes on the horizon with that pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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