Kirby Jackson Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, NoSaint said: Also of note: his 32m signing bonus is paid already...so the contract isn’t as obscene and is easier to get out of if you really have to. I’m with you on this. It certainly comes with a ton of risk but if the shoulder checks out you offer whatever. I just wish he was cooler and didn’t sound like a cartoon bad guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 12 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said: Are you seriously trying to tell me that Peyton is who he is because of Harrison and Edgerring James? Harrison is a HOF'er because of Peyton and yes James was a good RB but come on man. Peyton has made players around him better his entire career. Even in Denver he had quite possibly the greatest season a QB has ever had in 2013. Are you gonna say that it's because he had Demaryius Thomas? Look what happened to the Colts when he missed 2011 because of his neck surgery. They went to crap. Luck is overrated. Period. Trying to make an argument that is just plain stupid is idiotic You said guys like Peyton had no one. That's crap. Brady you can make a better argument. Rodgers maybe. But Peyton had guys that were damn good here in Indy. He and the two above named guys were complementary to be sure. And yes Peyton will be a HOFer. First ballot and deservedly so, even though he gagged in the playoffs a lot. But his teams had a lot more talent (including linemen like Saturday) than Luck has ever had. Luck is not overrated. Give him some blocking and a couple good receivers and watch out. Assuming he's healthy, to pass by having a guy like him for 10 years or so under some unknown coming out this year is an absolute no brained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: You said guys like Peyton had no one. That's crap. Brady you can make a better argument. Rodgers maybe. But Peyton had guys that were damn good here in Indy. He and the two above named guys were complementary to be sure. And yes Peyton will be a HOFer. First ballot and deservedly so, even though he gagged in the playoffs a lot. But his teams had a lot more talent (including linemen like Saturday) than Luck has ever had. Luck is not overrated. Give him some blocking and a couple good receivers and watch out. Assuming he's healthy, to pass by having a guy like him for 10 years or so under some unknown coming out this year is an absolute no brained. I didn't say Peyton had no one, I said he makes the players around him better. I find it hard to believe Harrison's career is what it is without arguably a top 3 all time QB throwing him the ball. Was he that great his first two years before Peyton got there? No. He was decent but didn't actually explode until Peyton got there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 7 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I’m with you on this. It certainly comes with a ton of risk but if the shoulder checks out you offer whatever. I just wish he was cooler and didn’t sound like a cartoon bad guy. With that much dead money, the onerous contract, and mental/character concerns, I'd toss a conditional 6th their way and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 1 minute ago, Buffalo03 said: I didn't say Peyton had no one, I said he makes the players around him better. I find it hard to believe Harrison's career is what it is without arguably a top 3 all time QB throwing him the ball. Was he that great his first two years before Peyton got there? No. He was decent but didn't actually explode until Peyton got there. Ok. But would you agree Luck hasn't had the same complement of guys around him, especially up front? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: You said guys like Peyton had no one. That's crap. Brady you can make a better argument. Rodgers maybe. But Peyton had guys that were damn good here in Indy. He and the two above named guys were complementary to be sure. And yes Peyton will be a HOFer. First ballot and deservedly so, even though he gagged in the playoffs a lot. But his teams had a lot more talent (including linemen like Saturday) than Luck has ever had. Luck is not overrated. Give him some blocking and a couple good receivers and watch out. Assuming he's healthy, to pass by having a guy like him for 10 years or so under some unknown coming out this year is an absolute no brained. Luck: 105 turnovers in 76 games. 3 Postseason, never one with more TD's than INT's. Huge drop off in his personal performance in post season. Hasselbeck had better win % than him the year he started while Luck was out. How is he not over rated? He is not a bum, but people talk about him like he's one of the best in the NFL...and he just hasn't gotten there yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: With that much dead money, the onerous contract, and mental/character concerns, I'd toss a conditional 6th their way and see what happens. I'm thinking we throw in the Browns #1. It's not like they would ever know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Wow. Irsay is one to talk about mental battles. What a moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 11 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Ok. But would you agree Luck hasn't had the same complement of guys around him, especially up front? Is T.Y Hilton Marvin Harrison? No. Is Luck's offensive line as good as Peyton's was? No. However, I can say even with Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne who Luck actually did play with, that it really wouldn't make much of a difference for him. I can't tell you how many times I've seen Luck go against top defenses and lay an egg. I know because I've had him in fantasy football quite a few times. He struggles against good defenses and gets a ton of garbage time yards. Peyton struggled very rarely. It almost didn't matter who he played against. I won't say Luck is a bad QB or he's not that good but I will say that he is overrated because he was deemed a once in every 10 to 15 year player coming out of college but he certainly has not lived up to that hype in my mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 I'd absolutely offer them a 1st round pick for Luck. Give them a conditional pick in 2019. 2018 - 1st 2019 - conditional 3rd that can become a 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said: Is T.Y Hilton Marvin Harrison? No. Is Luck's offensive line as good as Peyton's was? No. However, I can say even with Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne who Luck actually did play with, that it really wouldn't make much of a difference for him. I can't tell you how many times I've seen Luck go against top defenses and lay an egg. I know because I've had him in fantasy football quite a few times. He struggles against good defenses and gets a ton of garbage time yards. Peyton struggled very rarely. It almost didn't matter who he played against. I won't say Luck is a bad QB or he's not that good but I will say that he is overrated because he was deemed a once in every 10 to 15 year player coming out of college but he certainly has not lived up to that hype in my mind Because you have to have guys around you. You seem to think guys like Harrison and Wayne and James and Saturday and Dallas Clarke were made by Manning. Maybe somewhat. But as a comparison did Jimbo make Andre, or vice versa? No, they were complementary. In fact I could argue that Manning in some ways was the rate limiting step in some of the Colts years, because he simply didn't play as well in the playoffs. I get in trouble all the time here in Indy when the GOAT discussion comes up. So many here in Indy say Peyton over Brady, and to me it's another no brainer: has to be Brady without question. But back to Luck, I think it's amazing he got teams as far in the playoffs as he did, given the rosters around him. If he's healthy, and that would have to be thoroughly examined, Beane would be nuts to not make serious inquiries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 (edited) 26 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Because you have to have guys around you. You seem to think guys like Harrison and Wayne and James and Saturday and Dallas Clarke were made by Manning. Maybe somewhat. But as a comparison did Jimbo make Andre, or vice versa? No, they were complementary. In fact I could argue that Manning in some ways was the rate limiting step in some of the Colts years, because he simply didn't play as well in the playoffs. I get in trouble all the time here in Indy when the GOAT discussion comes up. So many here in Indy say Peyton over Brady, and to me it's another no brainer: has to be Brady without question. But back to Luck, I think it's amazing he got teams as far in the playoffs as he did, given the rosters around him. If he's healthy, and that would have to be thoroughly examined, Beane would be nuts to not make serious inquiries. You have to have some pieces but none of those WRs would have had the careers they had without Peyton. Luck has good enough talent around him. He isn't the once in a generation talent he was claimed to be, not even close. He struggles against good defenses and is a turnover machine. He's a good QB but he isn't fantastic. Certainly not worth giving up the farm for especially with a major injury like he has. Edited November 8, 2017 by Buffalo03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said: You have to have some pieces but none of those WRs would have had the careers they had without Peyton. Luck has good enough talent around him. He isn't the once in a generation talent he was claimed to be, not even close. He struggles against good defenses and is a turnover machine. He's a good QB but he isn't fantastic. Certainly not worth giving up the farm for especially with a major injury like he has We'll have to disagree. You underestimate the quality of guys Peyton had around him and overestimate the quality of guys around Luck. i would simply say there is no question a healthy Luck is way better than anything coming out in the draft. I mean, if Luck were in the draft this year you wouldn't seriously take Darnold over him, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 I'd take Cousins over Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: We'll have to disagree. You underestimate the quality of guys Peyton had around him and overestimate the quality of guys around Luck. i would simply say there is no question a healthy Luck is way better than anything coming out in the draft. I mean, if Luck were in the draft this year you wouldn't seriously take Darnold over him, right? It's hard to say, Darnold hasn't taken an NFL snap yet. If you compare when Luck was in college to Darnold in college I think anyone would have taken Luck. I can't really compare Darnold to Tyrod Taylor to be honest because he has no NFL experience. Darnold could be way better than Luck when he gets to the NFL. Luck's pro career isn't great. He's not an Aaron Rodgers type QB. It's pretty clear Jordy Nelson ain't much of anything without him. Rodgers can take a team of mediocre WRs and still be great. Look at Drew Brees, he threw to Devery Henderson, Marques Colston and a whole cast of mediocre talent and still threw for 5000 yard seasons. Luck isn't that QB in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: I'd take Cousins over Luck. I never know where to stand on Cousins. He is a lot like Tyrod in that the people outside of his fan base like him more than his fans. He does some things well and then can be maddening. I think that I like Cousins more than most but I see why some don’t. A healthy Luck is a better player than Cousins but we may never see a healthy Luck again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Just now, Kirby Jackson said: I never know where to stand on Cousins. He is a lot like Tyrod in that the people outside of his fan base like him more than his fans. He does some things well and then can be maddening. I think that I like Cousins more than most but I see why some don’t. A healthy Luck is a better player than Cousins but we may never see a healthy Luck again. I would actually say that Cousins and Luck are similar really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said: I would actually say that Cousins and Luck are similar really. They play a fairly similar style but in terms of reputation it’s closer to Tyrod. There aren’t tons of Redskins fans that want to commit $100M to him. That was a no brainer for Luck. Cousins is more like a Dalton or Flacco in that he’s hard to replace but maybe not good enough to elevate his team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearNorth Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Luck is a West Coast Dome Guy. Can he beat NE and Miami in Buffalo in the November December winds of Buffalo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I never know where to stand on Cousins. He is a lot like Tyrod in that the people outside of his fan base like him more than his fans. He does some things well and then can be maddening. I think that I like Cousins more than most but I see why some don’t. A healthy Luck is a better player than Cousins but we may never see a healthy Luck again. 3 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said: I would actually say that Cousins and Luck are similar really. Cousins seems to turn over the ball less than Luck. Statistically, they are pretty close but I would take Cousins just off injury history. It's hard to say what Luck could become with a decent O'line though with a consistent running game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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