re enlightener Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 our secondary is better now than last year, at cb and safety, not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 The throw in on the Sammy Trade according to many here Last year on is deal so hmmmm how much is the extension offer? Like you were tracking his career with the Rams. This secondary has been off the charts in terms of speed, Gaines seems to gimp off the field at least once a game, but he has been glued on WRs so far and so has White. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 What I believe is they did their homework and specifically went after Gaines and that 2nd rounder. They believed Gaines could end up being a quality starting NFL DB within their scheme and so far they've been right.I believe that, too. Completely. And it was very smart. There are a lot of corners in the NFL who are good in one scheme, like a man, and not as good in a different, in a zone. Gaines is good in a zone. Nickel Robey they immediately got rid of is better in a man. He has played well on the Rams. Darby was better in a man, that's why they got rid of him and got Gaines instead. That was very clear. Gaines has been very, very good. I was impressed each of the preseason games. He wasn't the reason they traded Sammy, knowing he would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 I'm sure Beane didn't view him as a throwaway. I don't think so either. True, the main reason for the trade was to move Sammy, but they needed a starter at CB, and it wasn't going to be Darby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 I believe that, too. Completely. And it was very smart. There are a lot of corners in the NFL who are good in one scheme, like a man, and not as good in a different, in a zone. Gaines is good in a zone. Nickel Robey they immediately got rid of is better in a man. He has played well on the Rams. Darby was better in a man, that's why they got rid of him and got Gaines instead. That was very clear. Gaines has been very, very good. I was impressed each of the preseason games. He wasn't the reason they traded Sammy, knowing he would be great. Yes And I do agree he wasn't the reason they traded Sammy. From their perspective the reason they traded Sammy was because they didn't believe he was worth $16m + a year and they tried to get as much value as they could. Considering that he was in his last year of his contract, I think they got good value in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 I don't think so either. True, the main reason for the trade was to move Sammy, but they needed a starter at CB, and it wasn't going to be Darby. Yep. The two trades were made on the same day in concert for obvious reasons. They can be viewed as a single trade. They got rid of Darby a man defender for Gaines a zone defender, who would be better on the Bills, and got rid of Sammy they didn't want (for bad reasons IMO but understandable) in return for Matthews and a second round pick. The sixth rounder means virtually nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 The Bills traded Watkins and a 6th rounder for a second rounder and Gaines. Pretty much everyone thought it was the equivalent of Sammy for the 2 and Gaines for for the 6. If you think otherwise, like Gaines was worth a 4th or 3rd, that means you think Beane traded Sammy for a 4th or 5th. I didn't realize/remember they gave up a 6th. So what I said earlier about them being able to get Gaines for a 5th (or just a 6th, which would have been even better) rounder alone was probably correct as I think they'd have done a deal just for Gaines and didn't need it to be tied to Sammy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 I didn't realize/remember they gave up a 6th. So what I said earlier about them being able to get Gaines for a 5th (or just a 6th, which would have been even better) rounder alone was probably correct as I think they'd have done a deal just for Gaines and didn't need it to be tied to Sammy. Right. I do too. So in other words, both the Bills and the Rams thought Gaines was worth a sixth round pick. Read: They didn't know he would be good. As of right now, he's a steal for a sixth. The equivalent of Hughes for Shepard. But no one should act like the Bills thought they were getting an all pro. They thought they were getting a zone defender with some experience and skills they hoped would replicate or better his very decent rookie season. But the Rams clearly didn't value him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) What I believe is they did their homework and specifically went after Gaines and that 2nd rounder. They believed Gaines could end up being a quality starting NFL DB within their scheme and so far they've been right. Exactly...I think the Rams gave up on him after the last 2 years, one of which he was hurt most of it in 2015 and then didn't play well last year coming back from it and was 3rd or 4th on their depth chart this season... He was on the All-Rookie team in 2014, and was among the league leaders in passes defensed with 15 that year... the Bills made a bet we could get him back to that level again and they seemingly have been right...he has been a very pleasant surprise... Edited September 25, 2017 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick the Greek Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 We swindled the Rams #winning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Our secondary looks amazing this year. Tre, Gaines Hyde and Poyer have looked spectacular. Such an impressive overhaul. What gives me the most hope is that all 4 guys were brought in by the new regime and they look to be a strength of the team right now. All fit very well into the new system and all have had a big impact. Really makes me think these new guys might know what they're doing. Many of the players they've brought in are having an impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) What gives me the most hope is that all 4 guys were brought in by the new regime and they look to be a strength of the team right now. All fit very well into the new system and all have had a big impact. Really makes me think these new guys might know what they're doing. Many of the players they've brought in are having an impact. I think this is a perfect example of how the sum of its part is greater than the individual players...everyone knows there role, plays it very well and is very disciplined, knows what they are supposed to do and are determined not to be the guy who screws something up for one of their teammates. That goes a long long way. I don't ever remember seeing a Bills team get to the ball like this one does...its like they are a swarm of bees attacking whoever has the ball. You don't see them tackling one on one, you see them tackling 3 or 4 on 1. Edited September 25, 2017 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Tre had a rough 1st half. The mental strength he showed to rebound and have a GREAT 2nd half is impressive. All CBs (even Revis as infamously shown by Stevie Johnson) get beat; it is what they do (i.e. pout and point fingers aka Sammy or have a tantrum and have penalties like A. Williams) afterwards. It's pretty amazing. Two TDs total. No long passes. Run defense has been good for three games. Linebackers have been surprisingly good. Both safeties have been excellent. Really well coached. They are ready before the snap. The ONE thing they haven't done well is letting some WR get open a little too easily but it hasn't hurt them. Even LB Deon Lacey showed some good skill this game. Yes, and you still can have the belief that although Sammy is a talented player that the Bills FO made a tough decision to part ways with a player they didn't believe was going to be worth the contract he would want and ended up getting excellent value for him. My question was whether the potential comp pick would have been worth it for Bills to keep him for final year but soap bubbles like Sammy's feet pop often. My favorite thing about these corners is that they are tackling extremely well. I hated Sammy's Neon Dieon impression. Whole secondary is playing great! Every CB south of Revis in his prime will miss a few and the good ones make the most of opportunities they are given. Even Revis had bad days. He can be heard saying "Damn *** Stevie!" on old sound tracks. My one concern is he seems to get dinged up at least once a game. I wouldn't feel comfortable extending him just yet until we see how his durability holds up. He was injured for all of last year. The key is they need to rotate some other DBs in when situation allows it to reduce wear. Sort of like rotating tires on car. I'd like the Bills to bring Antoine Winfield in as an assistant coach. He would be brought in to teach tackling technique, something he was very good at doing. Yes Bills seem to better at tackling but they can be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Like you were tracking his career with the Rams. This secondary has been off the charts in terms of speed, Gaines seems to gimp off the field at least once a game, but he has been glued on WRs so far and so has White. I was actually following him a bit....since that team is in my area. He came out looking great for them....then took on injuries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 I think this is a perfect example of how the sum of its part is greater than the individual players...everyone knows there role, plays it very well and is very disciplined, knows what they are supposed to do and are determined not to be the guy who screws something up for one of their teammates. That goes a long long way. I don't ever remember seeing a Bills team get to the ball like this one does...its like they are a swarm of bees attacking whoever has the ball. You don't see them tackling one on one, you see them tackling 3 or 4 on 1. Totally agree with everything you said. I think I've said in every game day thread so far how I love the way the defense just swarms the ball! lol It's very noticeable IMO, and nice to see. I also love McDermott's "Be One eleventh" of the defense concept as well. He has those guys playing as a true Team, and one that looks to be well coached. McD focused on bringing in coaches who were good teachers and IMO it's showing... in everything from fundamentals to scheme & execution to discipline (etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhDozeBills Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Thought Gaines was our best player on D today. Was all over the field and broke up several passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Yes! I've seen enough. If they try now they may be able to get him for around $7M-$8M a year sort of contract. How about we see if he can stay healthy for at least half of season ? $8M a year SMH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 The Bills traded Watkins and a 6th rounder for a second rounder and Gaines. Pretty much everyone thought it was the equivalent of Sammy for the 2 and Gaines for for the 6. If you think otherwise, like Gaines was worth a 4th or 3rd, that means you think Beane traded Sammy for a 4th or 5th. My head just exploded! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 I also love McDermott's "Be One eleventh" of the defense concept as well. He has those guys playing as a true Team, and one that looks to be well coached. McD focused on bringing in coaches who were good teachers and IMO it's showing... in everything from fundamentals to scheme & execution to discipline (etc). I agree mostly except OL. Maybe the players we have do not fit the scheme exactly but then you need to adapt until you do. Glenn being hurt is not an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) EJ has been a good surprise for all of us. Hes def on his way to earning a 2nd contract here and it will be a fraction of what Gilmore got, im pullin for em. Our 2ndary is much improved this year. Besides Tre and EJ, our Safetys are good too. Damn good. Edited September 25, 2017 by Marty McFly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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