Alphadawg7 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I don't have to make anything up. San Fran's defense is awful. I'm not going to qualify that further because it is painfully obvious. The Rams have not played any good defenses yet. The Colts? Lol. The Redskins aren't even good and they were only able to score 20 points against them. I give Sammy credit for fighting for extra yards for literally the first time in his NFL career. Of course he walked away with a concussion so I still feel okay saying he is not a physical receiver. What am I making up? Per-target yardage is a poor stat that correlates to nothing. Now you're trying to make things up to make Sammy look better than he is. He's a good receiver. As good as anyone in the league at tracking the all. Still not elite. Not worth the contract he'll get. I standby by that. Man you are so off base with this and other posts of yours about Sammy that I just don't even have the energy to address them. The knots people will twist themselves into in order to defend an earlier opinion they had never ceases to amaze me. The facts are really indisputable: *Sammy is an elite talent. *The Bills controlled his rights for 17, 18, and 19 at affordable rates (those saying the tag number is too high for Buffalo have not looked at their upcoming cap situation - there was more than enough room to accommodate his price). *Rather than keep an elite talent at WR to help the QB they're most certainly going to draft high in this upcoming draft, McBean traded him away for peanuts. Bad trades don't require three years to verify. Everyone in Philly knew the Kiko for Shady trade was terrible for them right away. And they were proven correct. Most Bills fans who haven't already committed themselves to running Sammy out of town realized this was a terrible trade the moment it went down. It shows a worrying lack of foresight on the part of the new front office. Doesn't mean the front office will be terrible or should be fired, but it's an inauspicious beginning. Great post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 The knots people will twist themselves into in order to defend an earlier opinion they had never ceases to amaze me. The facts are really indisputable: *Sammy is an elite talent. *The Bills controlled his rights for 17, 18, and 19 at affordable rates (those saying the tag number is too high for Buffalo have not looked at their upcoming cap situation - there was more than enough room to accommodate his price). *Rather than keep an elite talent at WR to help the QB they're most certainly going to draft high in this upcoming draft, McBean traded him away for peanuts. Bad trades don't require three years to verify. Everyone in Philly knew the Kiko for Shady trade was terrible for them right away. And they were proven correct. Most Bills fans who haven't already committed themselves to running Sammy out of town realized this was a terrible trade the moment it went down. It shows a worrying lack of foresight on the part of the new front office. Doesn't mean the front office will be terrible or should be fired, but it's an inauspicious beginning. It rightfully subjects them to scrutiny. Especially with them signing a 30+ year old Eric Wood to an extension after twice being out for the season with leg injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I don't have to make anything up. San Fran's defense is awful. I'm not going to qualify that further because it is painfully obvious. The Rams have not played any good defenses yet. The Colts? Lol. The Redskins aren't even good and they were only able to score 20 points against them. I give Sammy credit for fighting for extra yards for literally the first time in his NFL career. Of course he walked away with a concussion so I still feel okay saying he is not a physical receiver. What am I making up? Per-target yardage is a poor stat that correlates to nothing. Now you're trying to make things up to make Sammy look better than he is. He's a good receiver. As good as anyone in the league at tracking the all. Still not elite. Not worth the contract he'll get. I standby by that. I already listed the things that you made up; I feel no need to repeat them. I realize that you believe that your opinion carries more weight than the facts at hand. Fine; your prerogative to think that way. Personally, I'm going to go on what we've seen: when targeted like a #1 WR, Sammy is as productive as the best WRs in the game. This is not up for debate; it's a fact. What you continue to do is marginalized the facts at hand based on either your opinion or data from last year. Again, your prerogative. Me, I'm going to take what I see at face value. If I see a guy plow through 2 defenders to score a TD, I'm not going to label him "not physical" simply for the sake of constructing a narrative that suits my argument. I'm always going to take all of the data in context and call it down the middle. For every WR, the single greatest factor in their productivity is targets. That's another point that's not really up for debate. As the OP for this thread stated: Sammy will start to see an increase in target share as his HC, OC, and QB gain a comfort level with him, and his numbers will go up. Last night he got slightly less than a typical WR1 target share, and go figure, he had the kind of game we've seen him have every other time he's gotten the targets. #asexpected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Me, I'm going to take what I see at face value. If I see a guy plow through 2 defenders to score a TD, I'm not going to label him "not physical" simply for the sake of constructing a narrative that suits my argument. I'm always going to take all of the data in context and call it down the middle. One physical play, against a bad secondary, that left him with a concussion. I think you're easily impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 One physical play, against a bad secondary, that left him with a concussion. I think you're easily impressed. It was more than one play where he was physical last night to create separation or finish a play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Pimpin' Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 The knots people will twist themselves into in order to defend an earlier opinion they had never ceases to amaze me. The facts are really indisputable: *Sammy is an elite talent. *The Bills controlled his rights for 17, 18, and 19 at affordable rates (those saying the tag number is too high for Buffalo have not looked at their upcoming cap situation - there was more than enough room to accommodate his price). *Rather than keep an elite talent at WR to help the QB they're most certainly going to draft high in this upcoming draft, McBean traded him away for peanuts. Bad trades don't require three years to verify. Everyone in Philly knew the Kiko for Shady trade was terrible for them right away. And they were proven correct. Most Bills fans who haven't already committed themselves to running Sammy out of town realized this was a terrible trade the moment it went down. It shows a worrying lack of foresight on the part of the new front office. Doesn't mean the front office will be terrible or should be fired, but it's an inauspicious beginning. Wow... you turned a good performance by a traded wide receiver against an 0-3 bottom 5 football team into a coaching staff getting fired in one paragraph. Ridiculously stupid, but very well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 One physical play, against a bad secondary, that left him with a concussion. I think you're easily impressed. Are you saying Watkins isn't a physical enough receiver? Because I'd disagree with that; his problem was never his physicality, it was that he kept getting injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Wow... you turned a good performance by a traded wide receiver against an 0-3 bottom 5 football team into a coaching staff getting fired in one paragraph. Ridiculously stupid, but very well done. I did? I think you should re-read it. I said the opposite in fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 (edited) Are you saying Watkins isn't a physical enough receiver? Because I'd disagree with that; his problem was never his physicality, it was that he kept getting injured. Sammy Watkins Week 3 Highlights (2:25) Rams wide receiver Sammy Watkins played an integral role in the team's victory, as he racked 2 TDs and a highlight-reel catch in Week 3 of NFL action. Easy enough to see just as it was during his Bills' career. Edited September 22, 2017 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Are you saying Watkins isn't a physical enough receiver? Because I'd disagree with that; his problem was never his physicality, it was that he kept getting injured. It's a narrative that this poster has constructed to fit his opinion. It has no basis in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 It's a narrative that this poster has constructed to fit his opinion. It has no basis in reality. It's a ridiculous narrative, one devoid of evidence if you watch the guy play. It's almost as bad as CC's comment last night (before he starting going off) that Sammy has problems beating the press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I already listed the things that you made up; I feel no need to repeat them. I realize that you believe that your opinion carries more weight than the facts at hand. Fine; your prerogative to think that way. Personally, I'm going to go on what we've seen: when targeted like a #1 WR, Sammy is as productive as the best WRs in the game. This is not up for debate; it's a fact. What you continue to do is marginalized the facts at hand based on either your opinion or data from last year. Again, your prerogative. Me, I'm going to take what I see at face value. If I see a guy plow through 2 defenders to score a TD, I'm not going to label him "not physical" simply for the sake of constructing a narrative that suits my argument. I'm always going to take all of the data in context and call it down the middle. For every WR, the single greatest factor in their productivity is targets. That's another point that's not really up for debate. As the OP for this thread stated: Sammy will start to see an increase in target share as his HC, OC, and QB gain a comfort level with him, and his numbers will go up. Last night he got slightly less than a typical WR1 target share, and go figure, he had the kind of game we've seen him have every other time he's gotten the targets. #asexpected On point as usual Bandit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 It's a narrative that this poster has constructed to fit his opinion. It has no basis in reality. It's a ridiculous narrative, one devoid of evidence if you watch the guy play. It's almost as bad as CC's comment last night (before he starting going off) that Sammy has problems beating the press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Are you saying Watkins isn't a physical enough receiver? Because I'd disagree with that; his problem was never his physicality, it was that he kept getting injured. Yes, he never fought for extra yards. He doesn't get tangled up with a CB in the air and come down with the ball. If he caught a 3rd down pass short of the sticks there was never any doubt he would be tackled. So last night he finally fights for a TD... and has to exit the game with an injury. He is great at getting separation, that isn't my problem with him. He can get open and will catch the ball if delivered to him. He is just not built to play in the NFL for very long IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 It's a narrative that this poster has constructed to fit his opinion. It has no basis in reality. He's always been as explosive off the line and out of his cuts as anyone I've ever seen. His issues were injuries and attitude...never physicality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 One physical play, against a bad secondary, that left him with a concussion. I think you're easily impressed. How do you feel about OBJ? Or Julio Jones? They have both been hurt more times than Sammy. Sammy missed more time because of the nature of mostly one injury, but OBJ has been hurt multiple times, including missing the first 6 games of his NFL career, missing time this year and playing though ticky tack injuries a lot over his career. Julio consistently has dealt with injuries, and so did guys like Calvin Johnson. The one difference and issue with Sammy was one of the injuries he came back too soon from and there is nothing to do to fix it if you reaggrivate it. Its not how MANY times he was hurt, he only had 2 real injuries that forced him to miss games. 1 was a huge rib shot that could have hurt anyones ribs. The 2nd was a tricky foot injury that once fully healed has NEVER reoccured in an NFL player a 2nd time. The hard part was the staff and Sammy pushed too hard BEFORE it was fully healed and he had a big set back and then STILL tried to play through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Yes, he never fought for extra yards. He doesn't get tangled up with a CB in the air and come down with the ball. If he caught a 3rd down pass short of the sticks there was never any doubt he would be tackled. So last night he finally fights for a TD... and has to exit the game with an injury. He is great at getting separation, that isn't my problem with him. He can get open and will catch the ball if delivered to him. He is just not built to play in the NFL for very long IMO. I guess I just have to disagree with this wholeheartedly. He pops on TV (at least to me), and on a field full of NFL players that isn't easy to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Yes, he never fought for extra yards. He doesn't get tangled up with a CB in the air and come down with the ball. If he caught a 3rd down pass short of the sticks there was never any doubt he would be tackled. So last night he finally fights for a TD... and has to exit the game with an injury. He is great at getting separation, that isn't my problem with him. He can get open and will catch the ball if delivered to him. He is just not built to play in the NFL for very long IMO. Based on what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeginnersMind Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Bob Woods flashed talent superior to anyone on the Bills' roster. But Sammy's 47-yard over the shoulder catch was certainly elite. If you can't see that, you have no idea what you're looking at. I was looking at a really good throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Yes, he never fought for extra yards. He doesn't get tangled up with a CB in the air and come down with the ball. If he caught a 3rd down pass short of the sticks there was never any doubt he would be tackled. So last night he finally fights for a TD... and has to exit the game with an injury. He is great at getting separation, that isn't my problem with him. He can get open and will catch the ball if delivered to him. He is just not built to play in the NFL for very long IMO. Literally nothing you just wrote here is factually true. Not one word. Sorry, but thats the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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