The Panthers and the Bills

[3rdand12]

 

a good defense is always better than a great offense.

 

does this mean you agree Buffalo Boy?

 

No reason that Tyrod cannot learn to throw in a timing O. Just aint pretty yet. Not the end of "the process" for him by any means.

Give him a reasonable chance to adjust please

Eh, Boyst has a personal vendetta against Cam Newton which caused him to trash his entire 15-1, SB, NFL MVP season when his best receiver was Ted Ginn. So you should take his opinion on them with a giant box of salt.

I know enough about 62's leanings lol !

[Marty McFly]

I'm not the biggest Taylor fan in the world but it's embarrassing what this team is doing to him. They are forcing him into an offense that is completely wrong for him and took away the wr he works best with. We have a very slow receiving core and no gamebreakers.

Basically, we are doing the opposite of what the Panthers did with Cam, who is also better in every way than TT. They had crappy WRs but they had speed. Also, Cam uses the TE very effectively unlike TT.

He got scapegoated last year but people are going to realize that Roman did a great job with TT.

Completely agree about TT.

This is an offense that ISNT tailored to him( pun)

I can agree with what you both said except i think Lynn did a better job of making Tyrod more effective on the field with the roster he had to play with.

[LABILLBACKER]

Exactly why trading Sammy was a good idea. To borrow an overused analogy - "Why have a Ferrari in the garage if your driver is blind and can't see over the steering wheel?" Not saying Sammy was a Ferrari, but you get the point.

You're right. We ran to the podium to get the sexy hyped wr before we even had a quality QB in place. Championship teams need great defenses, solid running game and just enough qb/wr play to keep teams from stacking the box...

[3rdand12]

You're right. We ran to the podium to get the sexy hyped wr before we even had a quality QB in place. Championship teams need great defenses, solid running game and just enough qb/wr play to keep teams from stacking the box...

not a fan of EJ ... ?

Edited August 24, 2017 by 3rdand12

[boyst]

Thanks Hondo and same to you.

 

I just remember hearing about this offense and thinking it was a terrible fit for Tyrod's strengths. This is a quick throwing and timing offense. That has never been a strength of Tyrod.

 

A reason why Tyrod and other mobile qbs get sacked a lot is because they hold the ball and try to make plays. Tyrod's best plays aren't sitting in the pocket and making a quick throw. It's scrambling around and either running or throwing it on the run.

 

On top of that, we made our wr core slow. We have a group of WRs that would be fine with a Brady type. Possession, precision route runner guys. Tyrod's strength in the passing attack is throwing the ball down the field and we don't have a real deep threat. We have a bunch of WRs who are slot, over the middle type guys, which is the opposite of Tyrod's strength.

 

As always, I hope to be wrong on these things. All I want is to see the Bills make the playoffs once in my adult life. But if anything this preseason, it's been worse than I thought. It's still early but I'm very worried.

 

Even though Tyrod is probs let the better NFL qb, this Offense suits Peterman more than Tyrod IMO. And this thinking makes me question bringing TT back and the whole "plan."

I don't think it's as bad as it could be but see what you're saying.

 

The difference in this offense with a QB other teams field is accuracy and the ability to make smart throws. Hopefully that makes up for what he lacks

[r00tabaga]

No, its not true,

Newton > Taylor. and to suggest otherwise is asinine.

Newton sucked last year. I had him in fantasy and can vouch for that.

[MAJBobby]

So Julio Jones doesn't help Matt Ryan?

 

Just like McDermotts defense doesn't need good corners.... as Julio Jones roasted his secondary for over 300 yards receiving in one game last season.😂

No he doesnt need Julio Jones to actually be a competent QB.

[Alphadawg7]

When analyzing how professionals in any business operate, it helps to look at their past experiences, specifically the scenarios/situations where they have had success in the past. Consider Beane & McDermott. Their most successful year by far was the year the Panthers went to the Super Bowl. That particular team had a QB known more for his running than his passing, had a very strong running game, had a mediocre receiving corps ( they lost star WR Kelvin Benjamin to injury in preseason); and they had a defense designed & coached by McDermott. Sounds a lot like the current Bills.

 

But the real lesson they learned from that very successful season is that you do NOT need a stud, #1 receiver to be successful. Having that great receiver is a luxury, not a necessity. Look at the very best receivers in the NFL over the last decade. The number of Super Bowl wins those great receivers have is close to zero. This explains a lot about the Watkins trade, especially knowing he would demand huge dollars next year. The choice to devote your cap dollars to other areas of the team (D & O lines) is a wise one.

 

And to those who would dismiss this years team's chances, or call this a tank year, go ahead and review the success of that Panthers team.

 

Except there are also endless examples that completely disprove everything you just wrote, including a former Bill in TO. How many SB's did McNabb play in before TO and after TO. HINT...the number resembles the last letter in TO's initials. This is one of countless examples of how a QB wasn't as good with lesser weapons. RARE...I repeat...RARE quarterbacks can excel and dominate with marginal weapons, but even THOSE excel to new levels with weapons. Tom Brady had marginal weapons most his career and then got Moss and Welker and set all NFL scoring records the first season together, and with a Moss everyone said was washed up. I mean people think Pats can go undefeated this year, mostly because they added Cooks.

 

And news flash: Panthers have a winning record in just TWO seasons out of Cams 6 years in the league despite having a very good Defense most those seasons. Their biggest achilles heal most of his career...WR's. So your example was actually pretty bad to be honest.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Alphadawg7

[Fadingpain]

When analyzing how professionals in any business operate, it helps to look at their past experiences, specifically the scenarios/situations where they have had success in the past. Consider Beane & McDermott. Their most successful year by far was the year the Panthers went to the Super Bowl. That particular team had a QB known more for his running than his passing, had a very strong running game, had a mediocre receiving corps ( they lost star WR Kelvin Benjamin to injury in preseason); and they had a defense designed & coached by McDermott. Sounds a lot like the current Bills.

 

But the real lesson they learned from that very successful season is that you do NOT need a stud, #1 receiver to be successful. Having that great receiver is a luxury, not a necessity. Look at the very best receivers in the NFL over the last decade. The number of Super Bowl wins those great receivers have is close to zero. This explains a lot about the Watkins trade, especially knowing he would demand huge dollars next year. The choice to devote your cap dollars to other areas of the team (D & O lines) is a wise one.

 

And to those who would dismiss this years team's chances, or call this a tank year, go ahead and review the success of that Panthers team.

The reason we are in a quasi-tank mode this year is so that we might be able to draft someone like Cam Newton next year.

 

Any similarities between this Bills team and the Panthers in their Superbowl year end when you analyze the QB position.

 

I do agree that once we have a real QB the WR corps won't matter.

 

Plug and play. Lots of guys can catch in this league when you put the ball in their hands.

[GoBills808]

The reason we are in a quasi-tank mode this year is so that we might be able to draft someone like Cam Newton next year.

 

Any similarities between this Bills team and the Panthers in their Superbowl year end when you analyze the QB position.

 

I do agree that once we have a real QB the WR corps won't matter.

 

Plug and play. Lots of guys can catch in this league when you put the ball in their hands.

OP also neglects to mention Olsen, a terrific receiver in his own right and a huge component of their passing game.

[Alphadawg7]

OP also neglects to mention Olsen, a terrific receiver in his own right and a huge component of their passing game.

 

And perennial 1000 yard receiver as a TE and leads the team in both receptions and yards every year. One of the best in the game...so theres that.

 

Still like I said, 2 winning seasons for Panthers in Newtons 6 years is not the recipe I want the Bills to follow. And their biggest achilles heal...Wide Receiver...odd they keep drafting them high too. If it wasn't so important why do they keep drafting receiving weapons early?

 

Since 2014, the Panthers have used 4 of their 8 picks in the first 2 rounds on Wide Receivers and a receiving running back. But keep telling us all how its not important to them or at all to have weapons to throw to.

[Buffalo Boy]

OP also neglects to mention Olsen, a terrific receiver in his own right and a huge component of their passing game.

Three thousand yard seasons in a row!!!

[GoBills808]

 

And perennial 1000 yard receiver as a TE and leads the team in both receptions and yards every year. One of the best in the game...so theres that.

 

Still like I said, 2 winning seasons for Panthers in Newtons 6 years is not the recipe I want the Bills to follow. And their biggest achilles heal...Wide Receiver...odd they keep drafting them high too. If it wasn't so important why do they keep drafting receiving weapons early?

 

Since 2014, the Panthers have used 4 of their 8 picks in the first 2 rounds on Wide Receivers and a receiving running back. But keep telling us all how its not important to them or at all to have weapons to throw to.

I'm not one to say WR isn't an important position. They're all important. But QB is most important of all, and that's the difference (along with the Kuechley/Davis combination at LB) between the Bills and the Panthers.

 

And I don't think the Panthers' pass catchers are a problem. They have two competent WRs in Funchess and Benjamin, an All-Pro TE in Olsen, and have traditionally had good pass catching backs. Their issues have been, in chronological order, paying too much for running backs, a steep learning curve for Rivera, offensive line play, and injuries. I'd very much like the Bills to model themselves after the Panthers...they're strong from the inside out on defense and have a balanced, dangerous-enough offense to keep them in games.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

When analyzing how professionals in any business operate, it helps to look at their past experiences, specifically the scenarios/situations where they have had success in the past. Consider Beane & McDermott. Their most successful year by far was the year the Panthers went to the Super Bowl. That particular team had a QB known more for his running than his passing, had a very strong running game, had a mediocre receiving corps ( they lost star WR Kelvin Benjamin to injury in preseason); and they had a defense designed & coached by McDermott. Sounds a lot like the current Bills.

But the real lesson they learned from that very successful season is that you do NOT need a stud, #1 receiver to be successful. Having that great receiver is a luxury, not a necessity. Look at the very best receivers in the NFL over the last decade. The number of Super Bowl wins those great receivers have is close to zero. This explains a lot about the Watkins trade, especially knowing he would demand huge dollars next year. The choice to devote your cap dollars to other areas of the team (D & O lines) is a wise one.

And to those who would dismiss this years team's chances, or call this a tank year, go ahead and review the success of that Panthers team.

Tom Brady approves this message.

[Mat68]

They had an MVP qb. Defensive player of the year linebaker and playmaking corner. I get he model you are looking for but they were vastly more talented.

[Paul Costa]

The question is were they predicted to be MVP all D Linebacker and all D corner before the season? Maybe our guys will do the same? Maybe somebody else will step up. That's why they play the Games!!

[San-O]

Nobody is suggesting that the Bills are Super Bowl contenders. Two meaningless preseason games tells us nothing about this offense. But you make my point - Cam Newton was NFL MVP that year throwing to a mediocre set of receivers. No one believes Taylor will be an MVP candidate, but it is true that he is a far more accurate thrower of the ball than Newton. His performance last year was far superior to Newton's 2016 seas

 

 

 

Wow. Cam Newton completed 52 % of his passes last year.

[ChasBB]

When analyzing how professionals in any business operate, it helps to look at their past experiences, specifically the scenarios/situations where they have had success in the past. Consider Beane & McDermott. Their most successful year by far was the year the Panthers went to the Super Bowl. That particular team had a QB known more for his running than his passing, had a very strong running game, had a mediocre receiving corps ( they lost star WR Kelvin Benjamin to injury in preseason); and they had a defense designed & coached by McDermott. Sounds a lot like the current Bills.

 

But the real lesson they learned from that very successful season is that you do NOT need a stud, #1 receiver to be successful. Having that great receiver is a luxury, not a necessity. Look at the very best receivers in the NFL over the last decade. The number of Super Bowl wins those great receivers have is close to zero. This explains a lot about the Watkins trade, especially knowing he would demand huge dollars next year. The choice to devote your cap dollars to other areas of the team (D & O lines) is a wise one.

 

And to those who would dismiss this years team's chances, or call this a tank year, go ahead and review the success of that Panthers team.

You nailed it. McDermott looks to be the kind of guy who actually delivers when it comes to putting players in position to succeed with the skills each brings to the field - similar to - dare I say - how Belichick might operate. And this includes making the deals they just made - getting value for a guy they will likely lose next season and who, to date, hasn't been a "difference maker" type of player. I hope Watkins goes on to have a great career and I hope the Bills turn that pick into something even greater, but it was the right deal to make and I give the Bills credit for the move. They will be competitive this season. If they can stop beating themselves, no telling how far this team could go! Great post, OP.

[WIDE LEFT]

It was Newton's best year as a passer which you failed to mention, he threw his most TD passes (35), I think his lowest INT ratio since his rookie season (10) and tied for 8th in passer rating (99.4).

Again someone making my point. As you state "Newtons best year as a passer" came in a year where he lost his star receiver (Benjamin) for the entire year. He produced his best year with mediocre receivers. This is what Beane & McDermott witnessed first hand. So no surprise they devalued the need for a high priced star receiver. Spend your money elsewhere.

 

For those who question who is the more accurate thrower of the football; just look at the stats, it's Taylor by a mile. Cam was 52% last year. That does NOT mean Taylor is the better QB.

[Alphadawg7]

I'm not one to say WR isn't an important position. They're all important. But QB is most important of all, and that's the difference (along with the Kuechley/Davis combination at LB) between the Bills and the Panthers.

 

And I don't think the Panthers' pass catchers are a problem. They have two competent WRs in Funchess and Benjamin, an All-Pro TE in Olsen, and have traditionally had good pass catching backs. Their issues have been, in chronological order, paying too much for running backs, a steep learning curve for Rivera, offensive line play, and injuries. I'd very much like the Bills to model themselves after the Panthers...they're strong from the inside out on defense and have a balanced, dangerous-enough offense to keep them in games.

 

They have WRs because the Panthers made it the most important priority investing half their first and 2nd round picks on pass catchers in the last 3 drafts. Again, its a very important position to MOST quarterbacks in this league, and they havent had a 1000 yard receiver not named Greg Olsen because they need so much help at WR. Last year, how bad were the Panthers? Not very good...Kelvin coming off a major injury was not good and Funchess was still developing...no weapons and it was a major issue with that team last season. Very few can excel to their potential with a weak QB group. Not everyone is a Tom Brady. In fact, special WR's can make average QB's look really good and effective.

 

Culpepper was a stud with Moss, an after thought without him. Cunningham went from end of his career journeyman to Elite with Moss and Carter in Minny...Jeff George too. Cutler looked great with a young Marshall and got a massive over paid contract out of it. Look at how much better Kap looked with Crabtree throwing to talent like Crabtree and Vernon and how bad he was without good weapons. What about Scott Mitchell who was blessed because he got to throw to the great Herman Moore.

 

Those are just a couple simple examples, I mean the list is endless on how QB's have excelled with talented weapons to throw to and been marginal or worse without those same weapons. Even good QB's like McNabb couldn't get over the hump until he got TO, then never got over the hump again without TO. In fact, Eagles ingrained the WR position for years and just couldn't get over the hump. They finally went and got TO and poof, SB. Brady is a rare exception and is Elite with marginal weapons, but when he got great weapons in Moss and Welker, he went 16-0 in regular season and they shattered all kinds of passing, receiving, and scoring records.

 

For anyone to deny that the WR position is not that important is just crazy. Even Aaron Rodgers and the Packers who still had Cobb and Adams, plus other good young WR's struggled a lot more without Jordy.

 

So, I have to say while I respect you have your own opinion, I could not disagree with you more. There is literally an endless amount of cases that fully dispute your devaluation of the importance of talented receiving weapons.