wiskibreth Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I believe in it but tired of hearing the term. Just about every coach comes in here talks about changing the culture. They can't just talk the talk, They gotta walk the walk, or it's destined to fail again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 This is tricky for me. I believe that it exists (so I voted yes) but I also believe that it's overrated. Talent and coaching win. The culture part to me isn't as much about people getting along as it is an identity. They can identify and insert players that fit that identity. I actually think it starts from ownership, if the owner is active. If not then the next level down and so on. Not an easy quality to pin down or find the key driving forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 All you have to do is compare the 2014 Bills playing hard every game to the 2015 and 2016 Bills walking during plays and quitting before whistles to believe in culture. Rex !@#$ing Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buff808 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Culture, character, pride, winning its all tied together. Packers, Dallas, Giants, Patriots, Pittsburgh they all have a history of success which creates a foundation which defines the culture of the organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 So are you to say the bills are not doing whatever it takes to win against New England? Or is it that Tom Brady is better than every other QB the Bills have trotted out in the past 15 years. I think in this case talent is a bigger issue. Talent does matter. I don't think anyone is saying it doesn't. Culture, though, brings out the best in people both individually and collectively. I think there really is something to the "Patriot Way" beyond Tom Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 All you have to do is compare the 2014 Bills playing hard every game to the 2015 and 2016 Bills walking during plays and quitting before whistles to believe in culture. Rex !@#$ing Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I think culture is something that can have a SLIGHTLY bigger impact on a team than 'momentum' can have during the course of a game. I think 'momentum' is 90% bogus. The 10% of the time it means something is when the players on the field believe in it AND let it impact their play. Culture has a slightly larger impact on the big picture. I'm not a huge believer in it, but I'd rather have a good culture than a bad one. Talent, injuries, luck and coaching all are WAY ahead of culture when it comes to final results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Because lack of the right culture may be why they're losing teams. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure they talk about "the Patriot Way" quite a bit What does that even mean though? And the Patriot way is simply having one of the greatest QBs and HCs this league has ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 I think in this case talent is a bigger issue. Talent does matter. I don't think anyone is saying it doesn't. Culture, though, brings out the best in people both individually and collectively. I think there really is something to the "Patriot Way" beyond Tom Brady. And I disagree completely. Winning changes everything. and Winning comes with talent. Culture is derived from the talent you have. When Brady retires, and BB stays, the pats will be an average team. They can't just talk the talk, They gotta walk the walk, or it's destined to fail again. And how do you walk the walk. by holding people accountable? Has no coach of the Bills or Browns tried that in the last 15 years? I'd really like to join the "Culture" of the Golden State Warriors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 And I disagree completely. Winning changes everything. and Winning comes with talent. Culture is derived from the talent you have. When Brady retires, and BB stays, the pats will be an average team. And how do you walk the walk. by holding people accountable? Has no coach of the Bills or Browns tried that in the last 15 years? I'd really like to join the "Culture" of the Golden State Warriors. Culture has everything to do with it. Some synonyms for culture would be - mindset - attitude - work ethic - confidence - accountability- a combination of those things really. Culture is at least PART of the reason why some teams end up being great come from behind teams - Like the modern era Patriots or the 90's era Bills. Mindset, attitude, confidence, work ethic, accountability - all those things are part of the culture and absolutely DO matter. I thought this was common sense knowledge that like every single person everywhere understood. It doesn't mean it is more important than talent. Talent can certainly trump anything else in the right scenario - But I believe a positive style of culture can certainly elevate a team to play with synergy - slightly above their talent level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) This. We ALL deal with "organization culture" everyday at work, and it truly makes the difference between make or break. It's the main reason I left my last job. And somewhere at your old place of work somebody is saying, "amazing how the culture improved when that Dareustein took a hike." Edited August 17, 2017 by The Frankish Reich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 And how do you walk the walk. by holding people accountable? Has no coach of the Bills or Browns tried that in the last 15 years? I'd really like to join the "Culture" of the Golden State Warriors. They definitely tried. And they obviously failed. Accountability is one of the most difficult things to inject into a group that currently has none. Especially if there are other "higher-ups" still lingering on the leadership team. You almost HAVE to clean house and start fresh. Or you make examples out of your top talent and hope they and everyone else picks up the lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 And I disagree completely. Winning changes everything. and Winning comes with talent. Culture is derived from the talent you have. When Brady retires, and BB stays, the pats will be an average team. And how do you walk the walk. by holding people accountable? Has no coach of the Bills or Browns tried that in the last 15 years? I'd really like to join the "Culture" of the Golden State Warriors. Because they have historically had such a winning culture? Or is that culture merely Curry + Kerr + (now) Durant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 And somewhere at your old place of work somebody is saying, "amazing how the culture improved when that Dareustein took a hike." Oh they are MOST DEFINITELY! Especially since they were the type of culture that blamed all of their problems on the last employee to leave. I saw it while I was there. But funny enough, those same problems never seemed to really go away even after the employee had been gone for months. Weird! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Absolutely it exists. I've been on teams where the leaders held everyone to a higher standard and I've been on teams where everyone just wanted to argue and goof off. Guess which one was more successful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 quote unquote "stars". This is one of the weirdest things I've ever seen written out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskibreth Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 And I disagree completely. Winning changes everything. and Winning comes with talent. Culture is derived from the talent you have. When Brady retires, and BB stays, the pats will be an average team. And how do you walk the walk. by holding people accountable? Has no coach of the Bills or Browns tried that in the last 15 years? I'd really like to join the "Culture" of the Golden State Warriors. Holding people accountable is part of it, but so is being inspiring, motivating, teaching, listening, learning, planning, executing and on and on. Look, I'm not going to downplay the impact refined talent has. It's a huge component. But given relatively equal talent base in any given environment, the group with the better culture and cohesiveness is going to rise to the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Oh they are MOST DEFINITELY! Especially since they were the type of culture that blamed all of their problems on the last employee to leave. I saw it while I was there. But funny enough, those same problems never seemed to really go away even after the employee had been gone for months. Weird! Well, I can agree with that. I've been in those poisonous offices too. My disagreement: that was probably a bad boss, or a bad boss's boss, or even a bad CEO or company owner or (I've worked in government) Assistant Secretary of Whatever. So if we want to anonymize that crappy boss and refer to him/her as part of a "bad culture," then we're really not holding him/her accountable. Bills = Crappy Culture Under Ryan, which is the same thing as saying Ryan was a crappy coach. Or Whaley was a crappy GM. I prefer not to give such individuals a pass by referring to an abstract "culture." Now if it persists with a new coach and GM, we may be able to get to the Pegulas = Crappy Owners theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) Well, I can agree with that. I've been in those poisonous offices too. My disagreement: that was probably a bad boss, or a bad boss's boss, or even a bad CEO or company owner or (I've worked in government) Assistant Secretary of Whatever. So if we want to anonymize that crappy boss and refer to him/her as part of a "bad culture," then we're really not holding him/her accountable. Bills = Crappy Culture Under Ryan, which is the same thing as saying Ryan was a crappy coach. Or Whaley was a crappy GM. I prefer not to give such individuals a pass by referring to an abstract "culture." Now if it persists with a new coach and GM, we may be able to get to the Pegulas = Crappy Owners theory. You are correct that culture always comes from the top-down. It starts with the founder/owner/CEO and trickles down from there. If the top person has not set a proper vision of where they want to go, and proper core values which they hire and fire by, then the poor culture that will follow is most definitely their fault. The workers can only be as good as you let them. It's up to the leadership team to make sure they are setting the proper values, goals, and measurables that will allow their employees to flourish instead of rot. edit: I dont hold Ryan accountable for his crappy culture. I blame Pegula for hiring him and allowing it to happen. The Pegulas were still new owners when they hired him and did not have the proper vision of what they want their team to be. They probably still dont have a vision of their own, but it sounds like McD does and they are going with that. So we'll see... Edited August 17, 2017 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) Well, I can agree with that. I've been in those poisonous offices too. My disagreement: that was probably a bad boss, or a bad boss's boss, or even a bad CEO or company owner or (I've worked in government) Assistant Secretary of Whatever. So if we want to anonymize that crappy boss and refer to him/her as part of a "bad culture," then we're really not holding him/her accountable. Bills = Crappy Culture Under Ryan, which is the same thing as saying Ryan was a crappy coach. Or Whaley was a crappy GM. I prefer not to give such individuals a pass by referring to an abstract "culture." Now if it persists with a new coach and GM, we may be able to get to the Pegulas = Crappy Owners theory. To this I add Culture = Talent. Good talent = good "culture" bad talent = bad "culture" For the past 20 years have fans been talking about how to change the culture of this team or finding a franchise QB. I guarantee you, when the Bills find their franchise QB, this team will start winning. it will have nothing to do with culture, and everything to do with the talent. Edited August 17, 2017 by CountDorkula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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