Go on record regarding the trades

[Magox]

They made one off of reasoning, the soundness of which is at question. They have access to more than we do, and there are factors of luck, but to say they are still shooting for the playoffs AND trading current assets for 2018 resources does not come across as sound reasoning.

 

 

 

 

Every team is "shooting for the playoffs". Let's call this trade for what it is, it potentially marginally makes the team worse for 2017 with an eye on the future with the type of team they want to build. McD/Beane sold the Pegulas on a vision which clearly Whaley was never capable of doing and they want to follow through on that vision. They may end up burning and crashing but they are getting to do it their way which is what you'd expect and hope from a new regime.

 

They evaluated Watkins and clearly they made the judgement that they didn't think he was worth the risk at the cost he would have gotten at the Franchise Tag or open market value. Again, that decision may end up being something that we always remember as being a bad franchise decision much like we've seen in the past with Whaley but that was their determination based on all the information that they had on hand.

 

I get the reasoning, I think it's sound as I also don't believe that Sammy isn't worth the financial risk. Time will tell if this ends up being a good decision.

[jethro_tull]

Darby was expendable and too short and small, not going to miss him. But trading Sammy Watkins, the best player on the team who was healthy for the first time in years, primed and ready to give his all for what should have been a great season, is absolutely ludicrous, idiotic, moronic, egotistical, power hungry and flat out foolhardy.

2nd round draft pick? BFD. Drafts are risky, they already had a PROVEN PLAYER.

The worst part about this whole deal is that I have lost all confidence in our GM. You can rebuild the team without jettisoning the best player on the team and a fan favorite- not just because you want to show you are the new BMF on campus.

This move takes the wind out of the rest of the team. Who is going to give their all for this guy when he got rid of Sammy?

Moves like this come to define a tenure of a GM and staff. This one defines that he is a power hungry a-hole, nothing more. FU Brandon Beane. A Big FU.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

And if he doesn't reach the level he is capable of, we take a loss. If he gets hurt, we get nothing.

 

What makes you think he's going to have a massive season? We're a run-first team with TT at QB. What's so different this year, Dennison? What kind of numbers would he have to put up to garner a bigger haul with a $17M tag on him?? Any trade in that scenario would be contingent on him signing a long-term deal, and that isn't exactly sweetening the pot.

For one, he is said to be healthy. For 2 Dennison's offenses throw the ball a lot more than Roman's. Obviously health will play a major factor but I would have played out the year. The market is there though. The Rams are working on a long-term deal as we speak.

[Pete]

Good trades. I wish we could of gotten more for Sammy. But all in all good deal- loading up on draft picks for an excellent draft in 2018. Gaines and Jordan, plus 2 and 3 for Sammy and Darby is a good deal. Gaines and Jordan's talents will be well utilized in this teams style. Sammy and Darby are better off elsewhere. I wish them well

[Crusher]

he's not even defending it. it seems more to me he's just showing the logic behind it...and yes, there's a lot of logic to the move. doesn't make the move the right one, but it very well could be.

I see the logic as poor.

 

I'd rather roll the dice on a player of Watkins caliber being past the foot injury and realizing his potential over getting a lousy return while you let a star WR walk.

 

This move reeks of this staff wanting their guys and draft picks over true talent.

 

I am now highly skeptical of Beane and McDermott.

[4merper4mer]

Every team is "shooting for the playoffs". Let's call this trade for what it is, it potentially marginally makes the team worse for 2017 with an eye on the future with the type of team they want to build. McD/Beane sold the Pegulas on a vision which clearly Whaley was never capable of doing and they want to follow through on that vision. They may end up burning and crashing but they are getting to do it their way which is what you'd expect and hope from a new regime.

 

They evaluated Watkins and clearly they made the judgement that they didn't think he was worth the risk at the cost he would have gotten at the Franchise Tag or open market value. Again, that decision may end up being something that we always remember as being a bad franchise decision much like we've seen in the past with Whaley but that was their determination based on all the information that they had on hand.

 

I get the reasoning, I think it's sound as I also don't believe that Sammy isn't worth the financial risk. Time will tell if this ends up being a good decision.

Not potentially and not marginally.

[Magox]

Not potentially and not marginally.

Bad post

[QCity]

We could sign him cheaper after a so-so season or work the comp pick system as alternative options

 

Could we? You don't think his value would be higher to a team that could better utilize his skills (aka a passing offense)? The most you're going to get out of the comp system is a 3rd rounder in 2019 if everything goes right. A 3rd round pick in 2019 is the equivalent of what, a 5th rounder today?

 

For one, he is said to be healthy. For 2 Dennison's offenses throw the ball a lot more than Roman's. Obviously health will play a major factor but I would have played out the year. The market is there though. The Rams are working on a long-term deal as we speak.

 

Every athlete in their contract year says they're healthy. C'mon now. You don't think the team echoing his health statements was an attempt to allay suspicions and bolster his value? The first 3 plays last Thursday sure looked like a showcase to me.

[NoSaint]

Bad post

Come on, "potentially marginally worse this year" as the downside is definitely carrying water for the team

[Boatdrinks]

I see the logic as poor.

I'd rather roll the dice on a player of Watkins caliber being past the foot injury and realizing his potential over getting a lousy return while you let a star WR walk.

This move reeks of this staff wanting their guys and draft picks over true talent.

I am now highly skeptical of Beane and McDermott.

Precisely how this move looks. There wasn't a whole lot of risk in picking up the option or simply seeing what happened in 2017. Not vs the potential payoff. A bad move on a team bereft of star level talent. Seems many Bills fans are conditioned to believe that letting talented players walk over a few $$ is good management.

[Dr. Who]

Darby for Matthews and a third seems like a reasonable return. Watkins for Gaines and a second seems too light.

It really depends on whether Watkins can stay healthy. If he can, I don't see how the Bills win the trade. I also don't see them making the trade unless they had continuing reservations about Watkins. Sammy was my favorite player on the team, so I am biased. He is elite level talent. I don't think you trade those kind of players unless you are getting elite level back. On the plus side, April 2018 should be interesting and we now have the ammo to go get a top qb if necessary (and I think odds are it will be.)

[Magox]

Come on, "potentially marginally worse this year" as the downside is definitely carrying water for the team

 

How do you figure?

 

You are assuming that Watkins will play a whole season which he has yet to do in his professional career. To not acknowledge this fact clearly indicates an agenda not driven by facts.

 

On the other hand, I believe Boldin or Matthews haven't missed a single game over the past three years and they have been consistent performers.

 

I would argue that there is more than 50/50 chance that we could see more consistent performance from Boldin and Matthews than what we'll see from Watkins and I'd have history on my side to make that argument.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Magox

[26CornerBlitz]

 

How do you figure?

 

You are assuming that Watkins will play a whole season which he has yet to do in his professional career. To not acknowledge this fact clearly indicates an agenda not driven by facts.

 

On the other hand, I believe Boldin or Matthews haven't missed a single game over the past three years and they have been consistent performers.

 

I would argue that there is more than 50/50 chance that we could see more consistent performance from Boldin and Matthews than what we'll see from Watkins and I'd have history on my side to make that argument.

 

Except when he did his rookie season.

29 of 32 games started in his 1st two seasons.

[NoSaint]

 

How do you figure?

 

You are assuming that Watkins will play a whole season which he has yet to do in his professional career. To not acknowledge this fact clearly indicates an agenda not driven by facts.

 

On the other hand, I believe Boldin or Matthews haven't missed a single game over the past three years and they have been consistent performers.

 

I would argue that there is more than 50/50 chance that we could see more consistent performance from Boldin and Matthews than what we'll see from Watkins and I'd have history on my side to make that argument.

We had boldin regardless. He was on the roster with Sammy two days ago.

 

And how would you describe the differential in 2017 if Sammy plays 16 games to his potential- that's "marginally worse" as the potential downside in 2017?

[teef]

I see the logic as poor.

 

I'd rather roll the dice on a player of Watkins caliber being past the foot injury and realizing his potential over getting a lousy return while you let a star WR walk.

 

This move reeks of this staff wanting their guys and draft picks over true talent.

 

I am now highly skeptical of Beane and McDermott.

i really liked watkins. i thought it was kinda nuts that they didn't pick up his option. i mean...why use all of that currency to get him and not follow through (i get he was a different gm's guy). that being said, what if production next year doesn't warrant the pay watkins wants? i've asked this twice and no one answered. what if watkins has a 900-950 yard type season, 9 tds, misses a couple of games, etc..? is he worth the money? let's face it, that's not an unlikely scenario at all.

[Magox]

We had boldin regardless. He was on the roster with Sammy two days ago.

 

And how would you describe the differential in 2017 if Sammy plays 16 games to his potential- that's "marginally worse" as the potential downside in 2017?

 

That's not in the context of the argument I was having with 4merper. We were discussing whether or not the Bills were "throwing in the towel", which I countered that the Boldin signing essentially disproves that theory.

 

In regards to your last question, I suppose it all depends on the production Sammy puts up relative to Boldin and Matthews and more importantly what the direction of the team was heading towards the end of the season.

[NoSaint]

i really liked watkins. i thought it was kinda nuts that they didn't pick up his option. i mean...why use all of that currency to get him and not follow through (i get he was a different gm's guy). that being said, what if production next year doesn't warrant the pay watkins wants? i've asked this twice and no one answered. what if watkins has a 900-950 yard type season, 9 tds, misses a couple of games, etc..? is he worth the money? let's face it, that's not an unlikely scenario at all.

The points been addressed- you look at his value based on how he plays and what the market would bear. If injury lingers and he plays "meh" then he isn't getting the mega deal anywhere. You consider him at a lesser value and perhaps settle for comp pick compensation hopefully

 

If he plays great but is hamstrung by qb play you pay him and go get a qb

 

That's not in the context of the argument I was having with 4merper. We were discussing whether or not the Bills were "throwing in the towel", which I countered that the Boldin signing essentially disproves that theory.

 

In regards to your last question, I suppose it all depends on the production Sammy puts up relative to Boldin and Matthews and more importantly what the direction of the team was heading towards the end of the season.

You don't need to include boldin in this though, is a point I'll maintain. The rams pull the offer and we have both those guys on our roster. At WR it's Sammy vs Matthews. Boldin isn't in there.

Edited August 12, 2017 by NoSaint

[RoyBatty is alive]

I like the moves, esp Watkins, it was the smart long term business/football decision.

 

It appears as though the Pegula's/Brane/McDermott have a long term plan and it will require patience, esp from the fans.

 

Yes it is unfortunate Watkins has moved on but one could argue he is injury prone, thus far ribs, hip and foot twice have kept him out of games. Th Bills werent realistically going to the playoffs this is so moving Watkins might cost us what, one game, maybe. So we go from 6-10 to 5-11, so what. If by some miracle Watkins doesnt get hurt this year and has a breakout season, so what, under that sceanrio, we would have to pay a huge tab to retain him here. Would Watkins give us a material home team discount, zero indication he would. We got something for Watkins and miss him one more meaningless season in terms of making the playoffs.

[Magox]

 

You don't need to include boldin in this though, is a point I'll maintain. The rams pull the offer and we have both those guys on our roster. At WR it's Sammy vs Matthews. Boldin isn't in there.

 

You responded to my retort of 4merper, so it was pertinent to the discussion.

 

If you are going to talk strictly on the basis of the trade in itself if it is going to make us better for 2017, then no. It does not make us better for 2017, unless of course Watkins gets injured. But the trade in itself was all about building for the future and them coming to the realization that they did not want to take the financial risk to maintain Watkins due to the reasons that we've discussed ad nauseum.

[Scott7975]

I voted yes. Not really sure that I like them but I dont hate them. I didnt like trading up for Sammy to begin with. For me, i guess it all depends on how things work out down the road.

 

This team was never built right. Money wasted in FA. Reckless spending of draft picks. Terrible draft picks for the most part. I'm game to see how Beane/McDermit build this team. So far they seem to be heading the right direction. Getting draft stock is always a good thing. Especially when you have holes all over your team, high salaries, and no franchise QB. This season might suck, but hopefully our future heads in the right direction and we build the dynasty we have been lacking since the 90's.