row_33 Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 The transgender military service issue isn't a social issue, it's mental health issue. You can't have individuals afflicted with a condition leading to a suicide rate of almost 40% in high stress combat situations. I've been told dozens of times that the mental health issue is those of us who don't understand that this is a vital matter that should occupy 95% of the time by the courts and the Oval Office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) Wounded Warrior J.R. Salzman HAMMERS purveyors of PC in the military President Trump announcing a ban on transgender people serving in the military has brought criticism from the likes of Chelsea Manning and George Takei, but veteran and Wounded Warrior J.R. Salzman has a few things to add: J.R. Salzman @jrsalzman And suddenly thousands of people who never served a day in the military will become experts. https://twitter.com/nbcnews/status/890198686164299776 … 9:59 AM - 26 Jul 2017 he continued in multiple posts. Wanna go through life confused about whether you're a man or a woman? Go for it. But you don't get to be a distraction in the military. There's no such thing as an army of one. You stow that individuality BS and become part of the team. You're either uniform or you're wrong. My air assault school. We were told men and women are equal, except when we're not. Now give a special one to the "woman" with the penis I served in Iraq in 2006. For the first five months I was on a 12 man firebase out in the middle of nowhere in the desert. Wake up and do the same patrols, the same shifts, every single day. It was so damn hot. 150° in the gun trucks. Now take someone confused about whether they are a man/woman. Take those psychological and emotional issues and put them in that environment Take someone who is right off the bat not uniform or part of the same team. Give them special treatment because of their identity. Now "Chelsea" had a tweet too Chelsea E. Manning ✔@xychelsea so, biggest baddest most $$ military on earth cries about a few trans people but funds the F-35? sounds like cowardice #WeGotThis 10:20 AM - 26 Jul 2017 Perhaps the 'transgender' soldier convicted of espionage is not the one to listen to ? Edited July 26, 2017 by B-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 The transgender military service issue isn't a social issue, it's mental health issue. You can't have individuals afflicted with a condition leading to a suicide rate of almost 40% in high stress combat situations. I was thinking along similar lines. Specifically with regard to the wisdom of training people with possible mental health issues to be killers, not just arming them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) Obama was a a commie jihadist sympathizer racist. And you're no better and probably worse than the hyperbole of the OP. The problem simple: as a man you can claim/be a woman (just by saying so) and the services have to hold you to the female standards for the physical testing. Meaning, men who weren't strong enough or fit enough to serve can get in by using the female standards. That's a rational argument that could of been laid out with other arguments to why transgenders shouldn't serve in the military in an official White House statement. Instead he announces a major policy decision on two tweets. Edited July 26, 2017 by Doc Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 I was thinking along similar lines. Specifically with regard to the wisdom of training people with possible mental health issues to be killers, not just arming them. That's certainly a major part of it as well, though I was more focused on situations where other soldiers lives were dependent on the mental health of other soldier in their squad or unit during combat operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 That's a rational argument that could of been laid out with other arguments to why transgenders shouldn't serve in the military in an official White House statement. Instead he announces a major policy decision on two tweets. I'm with you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 there is no reasoning about the topic who out there thinks the supporters would put up with one second of honest discussion about the matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Rand Corp. recently did a study and estimates there are approx. 1,300 - 6,600 transgender service members currently serving. Do we simply drum them out? And I thought Kristin Beck's comments on the matter were interesting especially as to how the issue relates to leadership. Apologies for not being able to link from a mobile device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Wounded Warrior J.R. Salzman HAMMERS purveyors of PC in the military President Trump announcing a ban on transgender people serving in the military has brought criticism from the likes of Chelsea Manning and George Takei, but veteran and Wounded Warrior J.R. Salzman has a few things to add: he continued in multiple posts. Wanna go through life confused about whether you're a man or a woman? Go for it. But you don't get to be a distraction in the military. There's no such thing as an army of one. You stow that individuality BS and become part of the team. You're either uniform or you're wrong. My air assault school. We were told men and women are equal, except when we're not. Now give a special one to the "woman" with the penis I served in Iraq in 2006. For the first five months I was on a 12 man firebase out in the middle of nowhere in the desert. Wake up and do the same patrols, the same shifts, every single day. It was so damn hot. 150° in the gun trucks. Now take someone confused about whether they are a man/woman. Take those psychological and emotional issues and put them in that environment Take someone who is right off the bat not uniform or part of the same team. Give them special treatment because of their identity. Now "Chelsea" had a tweet too Perhaps the 'transgender' soldier convicted of espionage is not the one to listen to ? Bradley needs to shut his !@#$ing pie hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Rand Corp. recently did a study and estimates there are approx. 1,300 - 6,600 transgender service members currently serving. Do we simply drum them out? And I thought Kristin Beck's comments on the matter were interesting especially as to how the issue relates to leadership. Apologies for not being able to link from a mobile device. For current enlistees, I'd say give them honorable discharges with full pensions when those pensions would have naturally matured through service time, and all other benefits associated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Rand Corp. recently did a study and estimates there are approx. 1,300 - 6,600 transgender service members currently serving. Do we simply drum them out? And I thought Kristin Beck's comments on the matter were interesting especially as to how the issue relates to leadership. Apologies for not being able to link from a mobile device. Just for the sake of clarifying my own position on this matter: I have no problem with anyone wanting to serve their country. So I don't say you drum them out. But this is war, which has no time or patience for PC culture. Prohibit transgenders from serving in combat positions unless they pass the physical requirements of their birth sex, which requires changing the current regulations, and I've got no complaints. The military is not an institution which should champion the "everyone can participate" mantra of this social struggle imo. Problem is those regs won't be changed without a serious political fight because doing so would be letting the service determine someone's sex. Which, in this current PC battle, is an anathema. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Just for the sake of clarifying my own position on this matter: I have no problem with anyone wanting to serve their country. So I don't say you drum them out. But this is war, which has no time or patience for PC culture. Prohibit transgenders from serving in combat positions unless they pass the physical requirements of their birth sex, which requires changing the current regulations, and I've got no complaints. The military is not an institution which should champion the "everyone can participate" mantra of this social struggle imo. Problem is those regs won't be changed without a serious political fight because doing so would be letting the service determine someone's sex. Which, in this current PC battle, is an anathema. So, no concerns at all surrounding the mental illness position, and the near 40% suicide rate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 And you're no better and probably worse than the hyperbole of the OP. That's a rational argument that could of been laid out with other arguments to why transgenders shouldn't serve in the military in an official White House statement. Instead he announces a major policy decision on two tweets. I'm sure there's a policy document floating around somewhere. Of all the criticisms I could levy against him, the above is probably the weakest. As I recall, Obama would announce major policy decisions with tweets. Just not exclusively, and everyone understood that it was a complementary, not primary, communications channel for him. What I like most about this decision is the gnashing of teeth and rending of garments over "Oh my God, Trump overturned Obama's policy with an executive decision! How unfair of him!" Well...yeah, Obama made the policy the same way. Why would this be surprising? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 So, no concerns at all surrounding the mental illness position, and the near 40% suicide rate? I wouldn't say no concerns, I just don't buy into the notion that being transgendered is a sign of mental illness by itself. 22 veterans take their own lives every day in this country sadly - whether they're transgendered or not. In 2014, veterans (who make up 9% of the population) accounted for 18% of the national suicide rate. That's alarming, for sure. But it has more to do with our poor treatment of veterans than it does their sexual identity politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Rand Corp. recently did a study and estimates there are approx. 1,300 - 6,600 transgender service members currently serving. Do we simply drum them out? No but for there safety let them have surgery and fully transform in a safe place of duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 I'm sure there's a policy document floating around somewhere. Of all the criticisms I could levy against him, the above is probably the weakest. As I recall, Obama would announce major policy decisions with tweets. Just not exclusively, and everyone understood that it was a complementary, not primary, communications channel for him. What I like most about this decision is the gnashing of teeth and rending of garments over "Oh my God, Trump overturned Obama's policy with an executive decision! How unfair of him!" Well...yeah, Obama made the policy the same way. Why would this be surprising? Good. Show me that first Trump. Better yet, have Mattis give a press conference explaining why they made this decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 I wouldn't say no concerns, I just don't buy into the notion that being transgendered is a sign of mental illness by itself. It's in the DSM-5. You can quibble over the terminology but in essence that's what they're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 I wouldn't say no concerns, I just don't buy into the notion that being transgendered is a sign of mental illness by itself. 22 veterans take their own lives every day in this country sadly - whether they're transgendered or not. In 2014, veterans (who make up 9% of the population) accounted for 18% of the national suicide rate. That's alarming, for sure. But it has more to do with our poor treatment of veterans than it does their sexual identity politics. Greg, that's a major concern, but is a non-sequitur. The suicide rate among transgendered individuals is approaching the suicide levels of Jews in Auschwitz. A rate of almost 40%. 4 out of 10, Greg. That's staggering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 It's in the DSM-5. You can quibble over the terminology but in essence that's what they're talking about. Greg, that's a major concern, but is a non-sequitur. The suicide rate among transgendered individuals is approaching the suicide levels of Jews in Auschwitz. A rate of almost 40%. 4 out of 10, Greg. That's staggering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Good. Show me that first Trump. Better yet, have Mattis give a press conference explaining why they made this decision. Mattis is on vacation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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