Gugny Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Does the Miami game count as a shootout/being able to pass the ball when needed? In a loss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Does the Miami game count as a shootout/being able to pass the ball when needed? In a loss? what he said. They need to be able to WIN. OK, you mentioned the Miami game. Any more? Some might say that one game a season is a fluke. Lol. Yes a loss in a game that could've gone either way if not for some questionable calls(reverse to Reggie) and a missed chip shot FG. I'm not really sure what he means to begin with. Nothing changes until we win a shootout? What does that even mean? It means the Bill will continue to suck forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 (edited) Lol. Yes a loss in a game that could've gone either way if not for some questionable calls(reverse to Reggie) and a missed chip shot FG. I'm not really sure what he means to begin with. Nothing changes until we win a shootout? What does that even mean? I was just busting balls. I think what he meant was we need to be able to successfully pass the ball when the defense knows it's coming. I think OCs of the past couple years have been hesitant to let Tyrod pass on what would be a passing down for at least 29 other teams. That's just my interpretation. *** EDIT - Or he could just mean that the Bills will suck forever. *** EDIT 2 - It wasn't a fluke. Tyrod actually had two good games (SEA) last year. Edited July 5, 2017 by Gugny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 (edited) w/o a talented passer the drought continues. It's not that difficult to understand. How's this as an alternate - Until the Bills offense proves it can win against playoff caliber teams nothing will change. or this Until the Bills offense proves it can overcome a middling to bad defense nothing will change. Edited July 5, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseTooth Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 https://www.buffalor...n-metric-stupid "The correlation coefficient between a team’s preseason strength of schedule and their eventual winning percentage is -0.0861. If you want mathematical proof that the slate for a team going into a season has almost nothing to do with how the season will turn out, well, there you go." Meaning there is absolutely NO---let me say that again for all thsoe "off season schedule readers" out there---NO!!! correlation to a "tough" schedule before the season starts to a tough schedule when the season is playing out. In fact, if anything, it shows there might be a correlation to it being the OPPOSITE----teams with alledgedly hard schedules end up with easier schedules than thought, and vise versa So let's stop talking about the how "tough" the schedule looks because as I have been saying for years, it's BS, and analytics just proved it. You are literally using analytics to disprove analysis The schedule is hard when you play NE twice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 A talented passer is the easiest path to the playoffs I agree. It's not exactly easy to accomplish. They aren't a dime a dozen. They should keep drafting QBs until they have a stud. However, It's not the only way to win in this league as many on here seem to think. It is possible to be a good team with all 3 units of the game contributing you know? Not just the QB carrying the team. Tyrods a decent player. He isn't going to carry a team, but you can win with him as your QB. Agreed its not, but Agreed Agreed its not, but it has better odds. Agreed Agreed I was just busting balls. I think what he meant was we need to be able to successfully pass the ball when the defense knows it's coming. I think OCs of the past couple years have been hesitant to let Tyrod pass on what would be a passing down for at least 29 other teams. That's just my interpretation. *** EDIT - Or he could just mean that the Bills will suck forever. *** EDIT 2 - It wasn't a fluke. Tyrod actually had two good games (SEA) last year. 2 games out of 6 losses (JETS #2 doesn't count) Give me 3 of 6 or 4 of 6 and I'd feel much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EersN'Bills Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 I think Miami is due for a down year. Teams will be focused on Ajayi and they'll have to play all the other #2 teams in the AFC. I doubt Ajayi gets 200 yards twice against Buffalo again, which Miami needed just to get past them both times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Agreed its not, but Agreed Agreed its not, but it has better odds. Agreed Agreed 2 games out of 6 losses (JETS #2 doesn't count) Give me 3 of 6 or 4 of 6 and I'd feel much better. The sooner you embrace Tyrod as your starter, the better off you're going to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 The sooner you embrace Tyrod as your starter, the better off you're going to be. You assumed poorly Gug. Please don't be a jm2009. I can embrace TT. My doing so won't make him any better. Only he can make himself better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 You assumed poorly Gug. Please don't be a jm2009. I can embrace TT. My doing so won't make him any better. Only he can make himself better. Two Pro Bowls. Voted the most mobile QB in football. And he doesn't turn the ball over. How much better do you want him to be??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 In a loss? To me it comes down to close games... We need to start winning close games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Two Pro Bowls. Voted the most mobile QB in football. And he doesn't turn the ball over. How much better do you want him to be??? Read what Scott posted. It's all there. I want a reliable QB who can read the field, get off quick passes, and pass with anticipation. Things TT has yet to prove he can do. It's been proven many more times than not that - if you can stop the Bills run game you can defeat the Bills. Where was the shootout in the 2nd half of the Raiders game? Or a shootout in the real NE game? In order to succeed we need a QB that can carry the team. I embrace TT in 2017. After that we'll see And FWIW, the Pro Bowl is but a shadow of what is was meant to represent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Read what Scott posted. It's all there. I want a reliable QB who can read the field, get off quick passes, and pass with anticipation. Things TT has yet to prove he can do. It's been proven many more times than not that - if you can stop the Bills run game you can defeat the Bills. Where was the shootout in the 2nd half of the Raiders game? Or a shootout in the real NE game? In order to succeed we need a QB that can carry the team. I embrace TT in 2017. After that we'll see And FWIW, the Pro Bowl is but a shadow of what is was meant to represent. If it wasn't for the defense, he'd be able to do all of these things!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 (edited) If it wasn't for the defense, he'd be able to do all of these things!! And there lies the problem of those who wish not to grasp what is. What's the excuse for bad defense for the Raiders? Falcon's? Packers? Dolphins? or Chiefs? All of those *Playoff* teams have a Defense rated lower then the Bills @ 19. Defenses also ranked lower than the Bills Tennessee (9-7) Tampa (9-7) The common denominator is ????? Edited July 5, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 And there lies the problem of those who wish not to grasp what is. What's the excuse for bad defense for the Raiders? Falcon's? Packers? Dolphins? or Chiefs? All of those *Playoff* teams have a Defense rated lower then the Bills @ 19. Defenses also ranked lower than the Bills Tennessee (9-7) Tampa (9-7) The common denominator is ????? So tell me, did Tyrod Taylor give up almost 1,000 rushing yards in 3 games against Miami and Pittsburgh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 (edited) So tell me, did Tyrod Taylor keep the Bills offense on the field long enough to keep the other teams offense off of the field? Look this up, Miami (maybe another team) had in years past rushed for 200 yards against the Bills yet the Bills won the game. Does playing it safe guarantee wins? No it doesn't Not much else to say. Edited July 5, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 So tell me, did Tyrod Taylor keep the Bills offense on the field long enough to keep the other teams offense off of the field? Look this up, Miami (maybe another team) had in years past rushed for 200 yards against the Bills yet the Bills won the game. Does playing it safe guarantee wins? No it doesn't Not much else to say. Tyrod Taylor led a quick-strike offense. It's not his fault that the defense couldn't hold up their end of the bargain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 (edited) And there lies the problem of those who wish not to grasp what is. What's the excuse for bad defense for the Raiders? Falcon's? Packers? Dolphins? or Chiefs? All of those *Playoff* teams have a Defense rated lower then the Bills @ 19. Defenses also ranked lower than the Bills Tennessee (9-7) Tampa (9-7) The common denominator is ????? Those teams were in the top 5 in turnover diff.... They either dont turn it over much - GB, or ATL - Or have a huge number of takeaways - KC and OAK. Miami... i dunno luck? They were bad by like every metric. Jets, Rams, Chargers, 49ers... they probably should have lost all of those games. Buffalo wasn't great in turnover diff because we didn't take the ball away very much. So tell me, did Tyrod Taylor keep the Bills offense on the field long enough to keep the other teams offense off of the field? Look this up, Miami (maybe another team) had in years past rushed for 200 yards against the Bills yet the Bills won the game. Does playing it safe guarantee wins? No it doesn't Not much else to say. Running the ball is important. It keeps the chains moving, sets up play action, and is a classic, beat the man in front of you scenario. Edited July 5, 2017 by dneveu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 So tell me, did Tyrod Taylor keep the Bills offense on the field long enough to keep the other teams offense off of the field? Look this up, Miami (maybe another team) had in years past rushed for 200 yards against the Bills yet the Bills won the game. Does playing it safe guarantee wins? No it doesn't Not much else to say. The Bills were 18th in the NFL in TOP/Drive (2:43). Ahead of the Seahwaks, Giants, Raiders and Dolphins (1/3 of the Playoff Teams). Patriots* - 2:51 Chiefs - 2:51 Steelers - 2:48 Texans - 2:50 Raiders - 2:40 Dolphins - 2:30 Cowboys - 3:03 Packers - 2:58 Falcons - 2:54 Seahawks - 2:39 Giants - 2:26 Lions - 3:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 The Bills were 18th in the NFL in TOP/Drive (2:43). Ahead of the Seahwaks, Giants, Raiders and Dolphins (1/3 of the Playoff Teams). Patriots* - 2:51 Chiefs - 2:51 Steelers - 2:48 Texans - 2:50 Raiders - 2:40 Dolphins - 2:30 Cowboys - 3:03 Packers - 2:58 Falcons - 2:54 Seahawks - 2:39 Giants - 2:26 Lions - 3:10 You can't have two units that have multiple melt-down games and expect to be in the playoffs. We were 0-5 when we had a bad game running the ball (sub 100 yards) - that should be a major concern for Tyrod. He needs to be better in games when we can't run. There is no denying that fact. We were also 0-3 when we gave up 200+ rushing (big surprise. We also had 7 weeks with no takeaways. Lost 5 of those, and the 2 wins were against JAX and CLE. 4-8 when we had 1 or fewer takeaway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 To become the best you have to beat the best and to me hard schedule equates to a very exciting season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 (edited) The Bills were 18th in the NFL in TOP/Drive (2:43). Ahead of the Seahwaks, Giants, Raiders and Dolphins (1/3 of the Playoff Teams). Patriots* - 2:51 Chiefs - 2:51 Steelers - 2:48 Texans - 2:50 Raiders - 2:40 Dolphins - 2:30 Cowboys - 3:03 Packers - 2:58 Falcons - 2:54 Seahawks - 2:39 Giants - 2:26 Lions - 3:10 TOP per drive? Per Drive? JHFC More stats - how many of those drives led to ZERO points? The run game is supposed to eat up the clock and increase the TOP. The #1 Run offense should be in the top 5 then, no? 18th out of 32 hmmm abut average. That is still 6 places below a WC teams ranking in each div. meaning Not Good Enough Edited July 5, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 You can't have two units that have multiple melt-down games and expect to be in the playoffs. We were 0-5 when we had a bad game running the ball (sub 100 yards) - that should be a major concern for Tyrod. He needs to be better in games when we can't run. There is no denying that fact. We were also 0-3 when we gave up 200+ rushing (big surprise. We also had 7 weeks with no takeaways. Lost 5 of those, and the 2 wins were against JAX and CLE. 4-8 when we had 1 or fewer takeaway. to your point (and mine as well) Losses 65 yds v Balto 86 yds v Jets #1 67 yds v Miami #1 67 yds v Steelers Improving the defense will help the team, but a better defense won't fix TT's lack of passing yards or attempts per game. 2 of 12 (is it) when passing for more than 30 times per game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 TOP per drive? Per Drive? JHFC More stats - how many of those drives led to ZERO points? The run game is supposed to eat up the clock and increase the TOP. The #1 Run offense should be in the top 5 then, no? 18th out of 32 hmmm abut average. That is still 6 places below a WC teams ranking in each div. meaning Not Good Enough Shady I think your missing the point No it wasnt good enough to cover up a D that couldnt stop anybody BUT THAT IS NOT HOW THIS TEAM WAS BIULT......it was not supposed to be a offensive powerhouse that overcame defensive liabilities....it was biult to have a suffocating defense that could allow our ball control offense to score enough points to win games. One side did that.....the other did not Im not argueing whether it fits the modern day NFL......Im just saying that was obviously the plan. The fall off from a top 5 defense really hurt this team from a team philosophy standpoint. The offense was not supposed to be this good The defense was not supposed to be this bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 (edited) I don't give a f@#$ what that guy says. We don't have to wonder about what analytics says regarding cutting your own hair vs. paying for haircuts. I think that says everything you need to know about analytics and ol' khaki pants. Edited July 5, 2017 by Jauronimo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Shady I think your missing the point No it wasnt good enough to cover up a D that couldnt stop anybody BUT THAT IS NOT HOW THIS TEAM WAS BIULT......it was not supposed to be a offensive powerhouse that overcame defensive liabilities....it was biult to have a suffocating defense that could allow our ball control offense to score enough points to win games. One side did that.....the other did not Im not argueing whether it fits the modern day NFL......Im just saying that was obviously the plan. The fall off from a top 5 defense really hurt this team from a team philosophy standpoint. The offense was not supposed to be this good The defense was not supposed to be this bad A systemic failure all around. Will the same happen again this season? If McD can't get a top 10 defense then we need the passing game to step up. Can TT get it done? Stop the run force the pass. The pass defense was ranked 10 to 13? The run d near last but was that due to those 3 200 yard games? Relying on the run alone is one dimensional and imo that's a recipe for failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 If McD can't get a top 10 defense then we need the passing game to step up. I believe both happen. but hey, I just cleaned my lenses and added an extra half cup of sugar, so there is that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 TOP per drive? Per Drive? JHFC More stats - how many of those drives led to ZERO points? The run game is supposed to eat up the clock and increase the TOP. The #1 Run offense should be in the top 5 then, no? 18th out of 32 hmmm abut average. That is still 6 places below a WC teams ranking in each div. meaning Not Good Enough What? You don't think the number of drives effects the total TOP? We scored 0.264 TDs/Drive (6th) and 0.109 FGs/Drive (28th). We also scored 2.18 Points per Drive. As far as drive killers go, we had 0.218 3&Outs per Drive (20th) & we had 0.069 Turnovers per Drive (3rd). Added together that's 0.287 Drive Killers per Drive (4th). So yes, we held onto the ball pretty well relative to the league. I wonder how much the FG rank moves if we factor out misses for everyone, but I don't feel like doing the work right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Didnt realize we were running the Navy offense. They don't rely just on the run, but it's a common fallacy around here as if Tyrod Taylor is Tim Tebow. I believe TT has passed for over 6000 yards in 29 games. Doesn't turn the ball over. He's efficient. He needs a healthy Watkins for 16 games this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 When you're a non playoff team every area of the team can improve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 A systemic failure all around. Will the same happen again this season? If McD can't get a top 10 defense then we need the passing game to step up. Can TT get it done? Stop the run force the pass. The pass defense was ranked 10 to 13? The run d near last but was that due to those 3 200 yard games? Relying on the run alone is one dimensional and imo that's a recipe for failure. The honest answer is I dont know but Im hopeful for a defensive resergence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 I don't give a f@#$ what that guy says. We don't have to wonder about what analytics says regarding cutting your own hair vs. paying for haircuts. I think that says everything you need to know about analytics and ol' khaki pants. It's posters like you, who can't engage in a serious conversation about the Bills, who ruin this site. Go flip your burgers and get a life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 IMO, what this shows is simply that we suck at predicting strength of schedule, not that strength of schedule variations do not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweats Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Aw, every year the fans are complaining about how tough the schedule is. I think its just an involuntary reflex to prepare ourselves for another dismal season, honestly...........its easier to blame the strength of the schedule for our seasonally demise, than to place it where it belongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 So the very idea that there is a system for success in professional football, analytics, is really a bogus idea. Like gambling, you can increase the odds of success POSSIBLY, but the odds are still the odds. You can never predict whether or not you get a Curtis Martin or a Shawne Merriman... a Warren Sapp or an Albert Haynesworth... an Andrew Luck or a JaMarcus Russell. Injuries... mental issues... drug issues... it just cannot be defined to be sure. Because something in the future can not be predicted with one hundred percent accuracy in NO WAY means that the idea of a system for success in football is bogus. There pretty much in human interaction is nothing that can be predicted with absolute accuracy. Doesn't mean there aren't ways to improve your chances. And that's what successful systems do, they consistently improve your chances, not just in football but in life. People often say the draft is a coin flip, that it's complete chance, and that simply isn't true. If it were pure chance, there would be as large a percentage of successful 7th rounders as there are successful 1st rounders. Good teams work little tiny advantages to improve their chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 And there lies the problem of those who wish not to grasp what is. What's the excuse for bad defense for the Raiders? Falcon's? Packers? Dolphins? or Chiefs? All of those *Playoff* teams have a Defense rated lower then the Bills @ 19. Defenses also ranked lower than the Bills Tennessee (9-7) Tampa (9-7) The common denominator is ????? That their offenses were pretty good? Quick quiz question: what do these teams have in common? The Texans, Chiefs, Dolphins, Giants, and Lions? They are the five playoff teams whose OFFENSE was ranked lower than the Bills at #16. As did the non-playoff 9-7 Broncos and 9-7 Buccaneers. I'll tell you what else all those teams had in common. They didn't win the Super Bowl. When you're a non playoff team every area of the team can improve Generally true, but I honestly don't know if our run game could improve. They were insanely good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Two Pro Bowls. Voted the most mobile QB in football. And he doesn't turn the ball over. How much better do you want him to be??? Pro Bowls - as an alternate - mean very little these days. When they held it in Hawaii guys wanted to go but these days guys discover dangerous cuticle injuries that prevent them from playing. Can't speak for Gugny, but I personally want him to be a top ten to twelve passing QB. Because teams with guys like that behind center are overwhelmingly the teams that win Super Bowls. That's how much better I want him or the next Bills QB to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted July 6, 2017 Author Share Posted July 6, 2017 And there lies the problem of those who wish not to grasp what is. What's the excuse for bad defense for the Raiders? Falcon's? Packers? Dolphins? or Chiefs? All of those *Playoff* teams have a Defense rated lower then the Bills @ 19. Defenses also ranked lower than the Bills Tennessee (9-7) Tampa (9-7) The common denominator is ????? They were among the least injured teams in the NFL. Lack of injuries does not carry over from year to year and is highly variable....if Tampa Bay or Tennessee thinks they are going to get injury luck again this year, they'd better think again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Respect? Sure, but automatic loss? No way. The games in Buffalo and both Lynch and Siemon(who I think is average at best) are question marks. Plus Wade is gone. Huge loss, IMO. Automatic loss, no. Quite likely loss to Denver, yeah, I think so and so do most. Siemian was average, I'd agree, but in his second year in the league. He's likely to be improved and so is Lynch. I agree that Wade was a loss, but IMHO not a huge one. They have the personnel on defense to yet again be very very good. And they promoted from within which means a scheme change will not be necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Automatic loss, no. Quite likely loss to Denver, yeah, I think so and so do most. I think we will beat Denver. It is one of our most winnable games IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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