#34fan Posted June 26, 2017 Author Share Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) Why use the Cheaters as an example? They're the exception and not even close to the rule. They can have JAG's at WR and still have a productive offense, and Belichick can piece together a defense from nothing. I used them because they're a reliable playoff presence year after year... If we're stealing blueprints to playoff teams, I'd prefer it be someone that owns a proven formula.. Don't say Belly is great. -We know... Same goes for TB.... Lets look at what they do right apart from acquiring those two, and copy it. Edited June 26, 2017 by #34fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 So you think they'll miss the Ryan brothers? How the f**k did you get that out of what I wrote? The Ryan's were a freaking train wreck. I have high hopes for McD & Co., but they're looking longterm, they aren't trying to maximize wins in 2017. I'm good with that, but I'm not going to pretend it's something it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 I used them because they're a reliable playoff presence year after year... If we're stealing blueprints to playoff teams, I'd prefer it be someone that owns a proven formula.. Don't say Belly is great. -We know... Same goes for TB.... Lets look at what they do right apart from acquiring those two, and copy it. Those 2 are what make that team go. And the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. There's no proven formula there, much less one that can be re-created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted June 26, 2017 Author Share Posted June 26, 2017 Those 2 are what make that team go. And the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. It can't be both, can it? Elite veteran players buoy a teams production at key positions... This thread is about the means of acquiring those elite veterans... IMO, nabbing them as rookies is desirable. Regardless of what round you score talent in, If you amass 1st round picks your odds of striking it rich should improve... To that end, mailing in a season could help the big picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 It can't be both, can it? Elite veteran players buoy a teams production at key positions... This thread is about the means of acquiring those elite veterans... IMO, nabbing them as rookies is desirable. Regardless of what round you score talent in, If you amass 1st round picks your odds of striking it rich should improve... To that end, mailing in a season could help the big picture. or create a losing culture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 How the f**k did you get that out of what I wrote? The Ryan's were a freaking train wreck. I have high hopes for McD & Co., but they're looking longterm, they aren't trying to maximize wins in 2017. I'm good with that, but I'm not going to pretend it's something it's not.I don't believe for a second that they "aren't trying to maximize wins in 2017". There is zero evidence of that, and if they aren't tying to maximize wins in 2017 (at least at this point) then everyone should be fired. They were in the mix for a playoff spot last year with the worst HC in the league. If McD is only average, it would result in another two wins right there. Tanking is not part of the plan, nor should it be. Now, if they start 1-7.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan of St Augustine Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) Tanking doesn't add up for me, but cutting Clay most certainly does... Knee is a concern and he has had only a few flashes of brilliance to justify the big bucks. How can we tank when the Jets are certain to do so? I guess we split the series? Edited June 26, 2017 by Bills Fan of Maryland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 It can't be both, can it? Elite veteran players buoy a teams production at key positions... This thread is about the means of acquiring those elite veterans... IMO, nabbing them as rookies is desirable. Regardless of what round you score talent in, If you amass 1st round picks your odds of striking it rich should improve... To that end, mailing in a season could help the big picture. It could. But it's mostly about the QB. Lets say Darnold looks like the next great QB and the Bills tank and get the 1st overall in 2018. Maybe he says "I'd rather play for anyone than Buffalo and the odds of them having the 1st overall two years in a row are slim so I'll stay in school." What then? You keep tanking until he has no more eligibility? And how do you acquire more 1st round picks without doing what the Bills did this year, and how many years can you do that? As for drafting elite veterans, you also have to keep them. The only elite player the Bills lost was arguably Gilmore. I agreed that he wasn't worth $12M/year much less $50M guaranteed. The Cheaters felt otherwise. So the Bills drafted his replacement and ideally he makes up forget Gilmore. That's sometimes how it goes. Tanking doesn't add up for me, but cutting Clay most certainly does... No it doesn't. It would cost $9M against the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted June 26, 2017 Author Share Posted June 26, 2017 It could. But it's mostly about the QB. Lets say Darnold looks like the next great QB and the Bills tank and get the 1st overall in 2018. Maybe he says "I'd rather play for anyone than Buffalo and the odds of them having the 1st overall two years in a row are slim so I'll stay in school." What then? You keep tanking until he has no more eligibility? And how do you acquire more 1st round picks without doing what the Bills did this year, and how many years can you do that? One year could be enough... I don't think Darnold would say that, but even if he did, so what? -Trade the pick to someone else for multiple chances to score in later rounds... To me, it's the first round opportunity that's valuabe... Not the kid who thinks he's hot s#!%.... The pick could get us a better DE than Lawson... Maybe a stud ILB or TE... If a tank puts us in that position, isn't it worth it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 One year could be enough... I don't think Darnold would say that, but even if he did, so what? -Trade the pick to someone else for multiple chances to score in later rounds... To me, it's the first round opportunity that's valuabe... Not the kid who thinks he's hot s#!%.... The pick could get us a better DE than Lawson... Maybe a stud ILB or TE... If a tank puts us in that position, isn't it worth it? I wouldn't be able to tell you until I'd seen the kid play. Do you think it was worth the Browns tanking to land Myles Garrett? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 You only take a QB high when there is a QB worth taking high. Hopefully this is the year and we get a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 One year could be enough... I don't think Darnold would say that, but even if he did, so what? -Trade the pick to someone else for multiple chances to score in later rounds... To me, it's the first round opportunity that's valuabe... Not the kid who thinks he's hot s#!%.... The pick could get us a better DE than Lawson... Maybe a stud ILB or TE... If a tank puts us in that position, isn't it worth it? No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted June 26, 2017 Author Share Posted June 26, 2017 I wouldn't be able to tell you until I'd seen the kid play. Do you think it was worth the Browns tanking to land Myles Garrett? With the other pieces they've assembled on that Defense? (Peppers etc) -Absolutely! Still, as another poster pointed out, you can find elite players in the 7th... They wanted Garett, but they could have parlayed their position into other desirable picks... or create a losing culture We did that YEARS ago... 3-13 could offer a way forward... What's one more year after the last 17? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 This reporters age could be 9, and we wouldn't know. BTW, I didn't click as that's my general rule. Good rule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted June 26, 2017 Author Share Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) The next two drafts could feature some pretty good unknown QB's.. Kids like Brett Rypien, and Will Grier..... I'm hopeful that we'll be able to score some talent at that position in '18-'19. Edited June 26, 2017 by #34fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Let's play the season and see what everything looks like before we think about 18/19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted June 26, 2017 Author Share Posted June 26, 2017 Let's play the season and see what everything looks like before we think about 18/19 And this kid Da'ron Payne out of Alabama... 2018 First round DT potential for sure... I'd want a shot at him before KW got TOO old... If we go 8-8, there's no way.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick the Greek Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Maybe they will tank, but it certainly won't be in purpose. These are the Bills.. a tank job is just a way of life. Get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 From the Buffalo News... Kinda explains the cold-shoulder to guys like Maclin and Decker... I personally don't think Darnold or Rosen are worth it. http://buffalonews.com/2017/06/24/jay-skurskis-bills-mailbag-buffalo-super-bowl-one-day-charles-clay-get-cut-controls-53-man-roster-anyway/ The salary cap explains the Maclin and Decker situations. If we were rebuilding we wouldn't have kept Tyrod. Those 2 are what make that team go. And the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. There's no proven formula there, much less one that can be re-created. There absolutely is a formula there. Hard to re-create? If you want to re-create 100% of it, yeah, it's impossible, same as re-creating any formula 100%. But getting a good QB and a good coach are reproducible. Not easily but it can be done. And here are other bits we could and absolutely without question should re-create. Particularly their way of consistently acquiring more draft picks. They've then done many things with those picks, including trading them for established players at a time when their QB is approaching an age where every year could possibly be his last even though he doesn't think so. But that's the Pats, acquire picks. Do it with comp picks, do it with trading down but acquire picks. And don't be irresponsible about the salary cap. Spend money carefully on an extremely consistent basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) I wouldn't be able to tell you until I'd seen the kid play. Do you think it was worth the Browns tanking to land Myles Garrett? If all they'd acquired was Myles Garrett, maybe no. But instead they've also got two 1sts and three 2nds in next year's draft. That answer about whether what they've done is worth it is getting more and more likely to be a resounding yes in the not so terribly distant future. It'd be affective at the least. Maybe we can trade clay too. Not saying I'm for it, but is possible. Not with $13.5 mill in dead cap if we did it, it's not. They filled them with similar replacements. Again with Gilmore being the only real loss unless/until White shows he's up to the task. Zach Brown, Woods and Robey-Coleman for three are losses on top of Gilmore. We don't have any LBs athletic enough to replace Zach, rookie WRs often take a long time to get going. We're going to have to prove our ability to replace Gillislee as well. Those replacements have a long way to go to prove that they're equal. And we dropped a bunch of depth as well, DL depth, and a bunch of other spots. Not that this shows we're tanking. We're clearly not when we're bringing back Tyrod and Kyle Williams. But our salary cap problems have constrained us seriously. We look weaker in a number of areas this year. Edited June 26, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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