Bills do a poor job of keeping draft picks on their roster.

[4_kidd_4]

This sounds similar to when everyone was convinced Rex is a better coach than Marrone.

 

Only time will tell, but I dont think we should assume anything.

Yep. I don't buy any hype anymore.

 

Only time will tell.

[DJB]

We have had too much front office turnover and coaching changes on both sides of the ball. Not surprised we rank last.

 

I expect this trend to improve dramatically with Bean

[Fan in San Diego]

We have had too much front office turnover and coaching changes on both sides of the ball. Not surprised we rank last.

 

I expect this trend to improve dramatically with Bean

Bill Polian said this as well. When you keep turning over the coaching staff and GM's, expect to be in the basement.

[Real McClappy]

Yep. I don't buy any hype anymore.

 

Only time will tell.

100% in the same boat. This coaching staff honestly means nothing to me at this point and time, and will remain so until we start consistently winning or at least playing fully competitive games without the boneheaded mistakes.

 

Accountability, proper play calling, clock management and situational "spot on" football decisions are all that matter to me.

 

People already raising the cup for a rookie HC and GM are really head scratching to me at this point and time knowing what this club has endured through the years. I guess I lost my full optimism in this team until we have a real QB. This coaching staff will be handed the same fate as all prior unless TT magically turns into a pocket QB or we get one.

[John from Riverside]

This coincides directly with front office change.....if we can get any kind of stability going with McD and Beane......we will see more draft picks resigned.

[JM2009]

This coincides directly with front office change.....if we can get any kind of stability going with McD and Beane......we will see more draft picks resigned.

True. And better overall drafting will mean more success.This last draft seemed like a smart draft.

[Orlando Tim]

I disagree on this being such a big deal. I would be much more interested in what percent of guys are still in league. If we decide not to make a CB the highest paid ever does that make him a bad pick? we received good value for Gilmore. Now Mike Williams(the OT) was a terrible pick we received no value. Robert Woods is gone but I think for what he cost we did well. I think this is kind of info is much more important.

[SoCal Deek]

Or how about the Bills actually string together a couple of winning seasons, playoff appearances and show an upward trajectory and then see how the Draft Puck retention rate changes?

 

The question is one of cause and effect. IMHO the guys are leaving because the team 'has been' going nowhere!

 

Let's hope that changes.

 

GO BILLS

[Fan boy '92]

Saw this article on Twitter yesterday. It was a very red pill moment.

[mjt328]

Many of us have been pointing this out for the last 2-3 years. While Doug Whaley was certainly good at picking up veteran talent, his drafts were just not good enough.

 

I do believe that some of this can be attributed to coaching turnover. But not all of it. At some point, a GM must be able to just find good players that can fit any scheme.

 

Hopefully this changes with the new regime.

[Rubes]

Interesting to see who was dead last from 2014-16.

[SoTier]

agreed. the issue isn't retaining them its picking players worth retaining

 

I totally agree. The idea that the Bills' low talent retention rate is because of anything except the product of FO incompetence doesn't fit the facts. The Bills have sucked at drafting, especially in the first two rounds, since John Butler and AJ Smith left for San Diego after the 2000 draft. It has absolutely nothing to do with changing coaching schemes sending lower round picks packing.

 

The Bills have drafted the following in the first and second rounds since 2001:

 

2001: 1- Nate Clements (#21), 2- Aaron Schobel (#46)

2002 1- Mike Williams (#4), 2- Josh Reed (#36)

2003 1- Willis McGahee (#23), 2- Chris Kelsay (#48)

2004 1- Lee Evans (#13), 1 - JP Losman (#22)

2005 2 - Roscoe Parrish (#55)

2006 1 - Donte Whitner (#8), 1- John McCargo (#26)

2007 1 - Marshawn Lynch (#12), 2 - Paul Posluszny (#34)

2008 1 - Leodis McKelvin (#11), 2- James Hardy (#41)

2009 1 - Aaron Maybin (#11), 1 - Eric Wood (#28), 2 - Jairus Byrd (#42), 2 - Andy Levitre (#51)

2010 1 - CJ Spiller (#9), 2 - Torrell Troup (#41)

2011 1 - Marcell Dareus (#3), 2 - Aaron Williams (#34)

2012 1 - Stephon Gilmore (#10), 2 - Cordy Glenn (#41)

2013 1 - EJ Manuel (#13), 2 - Robert Woods (#41), 2 - Kiko Alonso (#46)

2014 1 - Sammy Watkins (#4), 2 - Cyrus Kouandijo (#44)

2015 2 - Ronald Darby (#50)

2016 1 - Shaq Lawson (#19), 2 - Reggie Ragland (#41)

The outright busts: Williams, Losman, McCargo, Hardy, Maybin, Troup, Manuel, Kouandijo. That's 8 total wastes from 30 picks in Rounds 1 & 2 between 2001 and 2014, which is almost 27%. That, boys and girls, is abysmal drafting.

 

One striking thing about the list is the number of players who had physical questions about their health when they were drafted. Mcgahee, McCargo, Troup, Kouandijo, and Lawson all fit that category. Of the veterans, only Mcgahee worked out. We'll see about Lawson.

 

Another striking fact is how many of the guys who actually did work out, some of them Pro Bowl players, the Bills either let walk or sent packing in their primes. That would include Clements, McGahee, Lynch, Posluszny, Byrd, Levitre, Gilmore, and Woods. Certainly the most egregious example of this is Marshawn Lynch.

 

If you think that the Bills haven't made the playoffs in 17 years for any reason other than front office incompetence, I have a sllightly used but recently rehabbed bridge over Chautauqua Lake that I'd like to sell you.

 

As for the new administration, they'll have to prove themselves before I fall for OBD's shell game again.

Edited May 26, 2017 by SoTier

[Real McClappy]

 

I totally agree. The idea that the Bills' low talent retention rate is because of anything except the product of FO incompetence doesn't fit the facts. The Bills have sucked at drafting, especially in the first two rounds, since John Butler and AJ Smith left for San Diego after the 2000 draft. It has absolutely nothing to do with changing coaching schemes sending lower round picks packing.

 

The Bills have drafted the following in the first and second rounds since 2001:

 

2001: 1- Nate Clements (#21), 2- Aaron Schobel (#46)

2002 1- Mike Williams (#4), 2- Josh Reed (#36)

2003 1- Willis McGahee (#23), 2- Chris Kelsay (#48)

2004 1- Lee Evans (#13), 1 - JP Losman (#22)

2005 2 - Roscoe Parrish (#55)

2006 1 - Donte Whitner (#8), 1- John McCargo (#26)

2007 1 - Marshawn Lynch (#12), 2 - Paul Posluszny (#34)

2008 1 - Leodis McKelvin (#11), 2- James Hardy (#41)

2009 1 - Aaron Maybin (#11), 1 - Eric Wood (#28), 2 - Jairus Byrd (#42), 2 - Andy Levitre (#51)

2010 1 - CJ Spiller (#9), 2 - Torrell Troup (#41)

2011 1 - Marcell Dareus (#3), 2 - Aaron Williams (#34)

2012 1 - Stephon Gilmore (#10), 2 - Cordy Glenn (#41)

2013 1 - EJ Manuel (#13), 2 - Robert Woods (#41), 2 - Kiko Alonso (#46)

2014 1 - Sammy Watkins (#4), 2 - Cyrus Kouandijo (#44)

2015 2 - Ronald Darby (#50)

2016 1 - Shaq Lawson (#19), 2 - Reggie Ragland (#41)

The outright busts: Williams, Losman, McCargo, Hardy, Maybin, Troup, Manuel, Kouandijo. That's 8 total wastes from 30 picks in Rounds 1 & 2 between 2001 and 2014, which is almost 27%. That, boys and girls, is abysmal drafting.

 

One striking thing about the list is the number of players who had physical questions about their health when they were drafted. Mcgahee, McCargo, Troup, Kouandijo, and Lawson all fit that category. Of the veterans, only Mcgahee worked out. We'll see about Lawson.

 

Another striking fact is how many of the guys who actually did work out, some of them Pro Bowl players, the Bills either let walk or sent packing in their primes. That would include Clements, McGahee, Lynch, Posluszny, Byrd, Levitre, Gilmore, and Woods. Certainly the most egregious example of this is Marshawn Lynch.

 

If you think that the Bills haven't made the playoffs in 17 years for any reason other than front office incompetence, I have a sllightly used but recently rehabbed bridge over Chautauqua Lake that I'd like to sell you.

 

As for the new administration, they'll have to prove themselves before I fall for OBD's shell game again.

You realize almost 70% of players drafted miss right? My biggest problem with your list is the high draft picks we used and later let walk whom were good that sets everything back further and further. You have to waste more high picks to replace them. See Gilmore... the cycle goes on and on.

 

http://www.dailynorseman.com/2017/4/12/15274148/most-nfl-draft-picks-are-busts

Edited May 26, 2017 by Real McCoy

[Buftex]

When you have 3 head coaches in a 4 year run-- draft picks get wasted.

 

Late picks are often very scheme specific guys that don't transition well and we've been a mixed bag on the top of the draft guys that should be around more often than not.

100%

Edited May 26, 2017 by Buftex

[DrDawkinstein]

When you have 3 head coaches in a 4 year run-- draft picks get wasted.

 

Late picks are often very scheme specific guys that don't transition well and we've been a mixed bag on the top of the draft guys that should be around more often than not.

 

 

Correct.

 

Drafting for a different defensive scheme every year will result in high turnover.

 

 

This.

 

Even if Whaley wasn't in charge of this draft, it was his 5th DC in less than 4 years on the job. Who could possibly draft for that?

Edited May 26, 2017 by DrDareustein

[JM2009]

 

I totally agree. The idea that the Bills' low talent retention rate is because of anything except the product of FO incompetence doesn't fit the facts. The Bills have sucked at drafting, especially in the first two rounds, since John Butler and AJ Smith left for San Diego after the 2000 draft. It has absolutely nothing to do with changing coaching schemes sending lower round picks packing.

 

The Bills have drafted the following in the first and second rounds since 2001:

 

2001: 1- Nate Clements (#21), 2- Aaron Schobel (#46)

2002 1- Mike Williams (#4), 2- Josh Reed (#36)

2003 1- Willis McGahee (#23), 2- Chris Kelsay (#48)

2004 1- Lee Evans (#13), 1 - JP Losman (#22)

2005 2 - Roscoe Parrish (#55)

2006 1 - Donte Whitner (#8), 1- John McCargo (#26)

2007 1 - Marshawn Lynch (#12), 2 - Paul Posluszny (#34)

2008 1 - Leodis McKelvin (#11), 2- James Hardy (#41)

2009 1 - Aaron Maybin (#11), 1 - Eric Wood (#28), 2 - Jairus Byrd (#42), 2 - Andy Levitre (#51)

2010 1 - CJ Spiller (#9), 2 - Torrell Troup (#41)

2011 1 - Marcell Dareus (#3), 2 - Aaron Williams (#34)

2012 1 - Stephon Gilmore (#10), 2 - Cordy Glenn (#41)

2013 1 - EJ Manuel (#13), 2 - Robert Woods (#41), 2 - Kiko Alonso (#46)

2014 1 - Sammy Watkins (#4), 2 - Cyrus Kouandijo (#44)

2015 2 - Ronald Darby (#50)

2016 1 - Shaq Lawson (#19), 2 - Reggie Ragland (#41)

The outright busts: Williams, Losman, McCargo, Hardy, Maybin, Troup, Manuel, Kouandijo. That's 8 total wastes from 30 picks in Rounds 1 & 2 between 2001 and 2014, which is almost 27%. That, boys and girls, is abysmal drafting.

 

One striking thing about the list is the number of players who had physical questions about their health when they were drafted. Mcgahee, McCargo, Troup, Kouandijo, and Lawson all fit that category. Of the veterans, only Mcgahee worked out. We'll see about Lawson.

 

Another striking fact is how many of the guys who actually did work out, some of them Pro Bowl players, the Bills either let walk or sent packing in their primes. That would include Clements, McGahee, Lynch, Posluszny, Byrd, Levitre, Gilmore, and Woods. Certainly the most egregious example of this is Marshawn Lynch.

 

If you think that the Bills haven't made the playoffs in 17 years for any reason other than front office incompetence, I have a sllightly used but recently rehabbed bridge over Chautauqua Lake that I'd like to sell you.

 

As for the new administration, they'll have to prove themselves before I fall for OBD's shell game again.

Good post.

[JM2009]

You realize almost 70% of players drafted miss right? My biggest problem with your list is the high draft picks we used and later let walk whom were good that sets everything back further and further. You have to waste more high picks to replace them. See Gilmore... the cycle goes on and on.

 

http://www.dailynorseman.com/2017/4/12/15274148/most-nfl-draft-picks-are-busts

True also. Spinning wheels.

[Peevo]

 

I totally agree. The idea that the Bills' low talent retention rate is because of anything except the product of FO incompetence doesn't fit the facts. The Bills have sucked at drafting, especially in the first two rounds, since John Butler and AJ Smith left for San Diego after the 2000 draft. It has absolutely nothing to do with changing coaching schemes sending lower round picks packing.

 

The Bills have drafted the following in the first and second rounds since 2001:

 

2001: 1- Nate Clements (#21), 2- Aaron Schobel (#46)

2002 1- Mike Williams (#4), 2- Josh Reed (#36)

2003 1- Willis McGahee (#23), 2- Chris Kelsay (#48)

2004 1- Lee Evans (#13), 1 - JP Losman (#22)

2005 2 - Roscoe Parrish (#55)

2006 1 - Donte Whitner (#8), 1- John McCargo (#26)

2007 1 - Marshawn Lynch (#12), 2 - Paul Posluszny (#34)

2008 1 - Leodis McKelvin (#11), 2- James Hardy (#41)

2009 1 - Aaron Maybin (#11), 1 - Eric Wood (#28), 2 - Jairus Byrd (#42), 2 - Andy Levitre (#51)

2010 1 - CJ Spiller (#9), 2 - Torrell Troup (#41)

2011 1 - Marcell Dareus (#3), 2 - Aaron Williams (#34)

2012 1 - Stephon Gilmore (#10), 2 - Cordy Glenn (#41)

2013 1 - EJ Manuel (#13), 2 - Robert Woods (#41), 2 - Kiko Alonso (#46)

2014 1 - Sammy Watkins (#4), 2 - Cyrus Kouandijo (#44)

2015 2 - Ronald Darby (#50)

2016 1 - Shaq Lawson (#19), 2 - Reggie Ragland (#41)

The outright busts: Williams, Losman, McCargo, Hardy, Maybin, Troup, Manuel, Kouandijo. That's 8 total wastes from 30 picks in Rounds 1 & 2 between 2001 and 2014, which is almost 27%. That, boys and girls, is abysmal drafting.

 

One striking thing about the list is the number of players who had physical questions about their health when they were drafted. Mcgahee, McCargo, Troup, Kouandijo, and Lawson all fit that category. Of the veterans, only Mcgahee worked out. We'll see about Lawson.

 

Another striking fact is how many of the guys who actually did work out, some of them Pro Bowl players, the Bills either let walk or sent packing in their primes. That would include Clements, McGahee, Lynch, Posluszny, Byrd, Levitre, Gilmore, and Woods. Certainly the most egregious example of this is Marshawn Lynch.

 

If you think that the Bills haven't made the playoffs in 17 years for any reason other than front office incompetence, I have a sllightly used but recently rehabbed bridge over Chautauqua Lake that I'd like to sell you.

 

As for the new administration, they'll have to prove themselves before I fall for OBD's shell game again.

 

 

This is hard to argue with. Great job. Let's see the apologists try their hands at defending this one.

[wilcoam]

I will absolutely be one of those apologists...

 

Lack of player retention is not just attributed to quality of drafting and or the GM, if you continually change coaching, and schemes, players don't get retained, in this regard, Rex Ryan was a disaster for us, especially on D, he outright released Cockrell, and was instrumental in not trying to resign both Searcy and Bradham, 3 players who didn't fit his scheme, we could all really use this year

 

NO offense to HC Sean, but he just did the same thing with our impending FA's this off season, min 3 of em were draft picks, so another change in coaching isn't helping that stat, time will tell if he's right or wrong

 

That being said, yes DW had some misses draft wise which helped that stat, including busts, and a tendency to draft players with health and off field issues, with were contributory

 

Ownership should have take their share of blame, Wilson didn't wanna pay em, Pegs hired Rex, and created a structure whereas he gives the HC more license than usual to turn over roster, that creates a year to retention problem beyond just draft picks, the last couple of years has been roster crazy, we have gone through 2 D scheme player makeovers, its the offense which has stayed consistant player wise

 

jc

[Sandy McFiddish]

I think we will dramatically improve on this aspect with DW gone. I do give Doug credit for still helping with the draft, fully knowing he is being fired, and kept it classy on the way out.