Good article on Bills front office purge

[Magox]

I just get the feeling that we finally have a vision moving forward. I don't just say this because of the article, it's just the sense that I get with the sort of decisions that we are making.

 

I feel good about McD

[YoloinOhio]

Just had a chance to read the article -- it made a lot of sense to me based on what I thought happened. McD didn't intend to push Whaley out the door unless he found it necessary after working with him ... and he realized after doing so that he didn't share the same team building vision. Pegula hadn't seen Whaley's team building succeed, regardless of the different factors that go into that, and the most important thing in building a successful team is cohesiveness between HC and GM. I think they are following the Falcons model --

http://www.myajc.com/sports/football/the-forced-marriage-quinn-and-dimitroff-blissful-union/cVvUForahqNls1QeuOXa9K/

[dubs]

I respect this opinion a lot. I like SM but I worry they may be putting him a position to fail. It's way too hard to coach and worry about personnel. It killed Chip Kelly.

 

I never thought guys like you and me would be doubters haha. Once Promo starts questioning decisions, all hope is gone.

 

Yeah, I agree as well. But I am hopeful that this is more of a "all hands on deck" situation in which once the GM comes on board, SMcD goes back to focusing on coaching duties.

[oldmanfan]

Interesting article. I will say I've never been that impressed with Lombardi, did a pretty bad job in Cleveland and I think he writes this kind of stuff just to keep his name out there as some sort of expert. But the underlying theme of a scout vs.GM is intriguing.

 

Much is being made of the Pegulas giving too much power to a new HC. But there's a couple things to consider. One is that the model works in places like Atlanta and Seattle. Whether McD is that caliber of HC remains an open question of course. But second, while I used to think you need to get the GM and have him pick his HC, that model may be antiquated. What is the most important thing is to have a GM and HC in complete synchrony over what kind of team to have and how to put that together. In that regard, McD will be sure to have a GM come n that he has that synchrony with, that he completely trusts with personnel, scouting, cap issues, etc. And regardless him coming first vs. the GM, that is what you need for sustained success.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I don't think what people are understanding is that McDermott isn't being given overriding power, or making a power grab. He's simply doing the things he needs to do to keep the ball rolling. I give him tons of credit for making it known to the Pegula's that he and Doug clearly aren't on the same page, they don't share football philosophies, and by in large, they can't build a TEAM together. The Pegula's like his vision more and here we are.

 

I think it's a little ironic that Doug probably "picked" McDermott for the HC candidate, like he would have "picked" a player, only to have it bite him in the behind because he didn't do his complete homework to know if they shared the same philosophies on building a football team.

 

I think when all the dust settles, we'll end up with two guys with equal "power" reporting to the Pegula's in complete partnership. -which is what they've wanted all along, but didn't know how to get there. McDermott turned on some lights. I think this part of the article speaks the lowdest to me, and where the Pegula's want to be:

 

"In football, a successful partnership between the head coach and GM starts with a philosophical connection. I was a more effective personnel man working for Patriots head coach Bill Belichick; we share the same vision for what it takes to win in the NFL. When I wasn’t with Bill, I was horrible working with … I’ll leave out the name, as it pains me to even remember. The cohesiveness between coach and GM is vital to an organization. Pete Carroll found it with John Schneider in Seattle, Ted Thompson found it with Mike McCarthy in Green Bay, and the Steelers have always had it with whoever is their GM — in this case, Kevin Colbert — and their head coach, Mike Tomlin."

Excellent! Great point that needed to be said.

Interesting article. I will say I've never been that impressed with Lombardi, did a pretty bad job in Cleveland and I think he writes this kind of stuff just to keep his name out there as some sort of expert. But the underlying theme of a scout vs.GM is intriguing.

 

Much is being made of the Pegulas giving too much power to a new HC. But there's a couple things to consider. One is that the model works in places like Atlanta and Seattle. Whether McD is that caliber of HC remains an open question of course. But second, while I used to think you need to get the GM and have him pick his HC, that model may be antiquated. What is the most important thing is to have a GM and HC in complete synchrony over what kind of team to have and how to put that together. In that regard, McD will be sure to have a GM come n that he has that synchrony with, that he completely trusts with personnel, scouting, cap issues, etc. And regardless him coming first vs. the GM, that is what you need for sustained success.

Great post!

Most power is taken and not given has been my experience in the business world. If Sean McD took power then it is to his credit.

Edited May 4, 2017 by horned dogs

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I like Lombardi but he's has a lot of misses in his career. Whaley had a top 5 defense and top 10 offense under his watch in 4 years without being able to pick a head coach.

 

Yes. Moreover, any credible assessment of the players Whaley drafted, must take into account that Whaley has had to try to build 3 teams for 3 head coaches with different offensive and defensive schemes.

I don't get the "drafting players, not building a team" line.

[iinii]

+1

Make that plus 2.

[oldmanfan]

 

Yes. Moreover, any credible assessment of the players Whaley drafted, must take into account that Whaley has had to try to build 3 teams for 3 head coaches with different offensive and defensive schemes.

I don't get the "drafting players, not building a team" line.

I understand where he's coming from there. Look at the Pats. Belichick has a definite type of player he needs to play the way he wants his team to play. So when drafting you need to have that paramount in your scouting, etc. sometimes a player with lesser apparent talent is the guy you want to draft because he's a better fit for what you want to achieve.

[BillsFan4]

https://theringer.com/nfl-buffalo-bills-gm-doug-whaley-fired-sean-mcdermott-d87e027bae86-d87e027bae86

 

"Good for the Bills. They may finally have a chance to catch the Pats. Not because Whaley was bad at his job, but rather because he was picking players, not building a team. Being a GM in the NFL is not like being a fantasy football owner. There has to be an understanding of the essentials needed for a team to succeed. And when the head coach and GM don’t agree on those essentials, there is chaos, followed by losing.[/size]

As Nantz told me years ago, no one cares who the GM is; if you’re winning, they care about only the head coach and quarterback. Now all the Bills need under Uncle Sean’s direction is a QB."

I thought that was an interesting read. Thanks for sharing.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just had a chance to read the article -- it made a lot of sense to me based on what I thought happened. McD didn't intend to push Whaley out the door unless he found it necessary after working with him ... and he realized after doing so that he didn't share the same team building vision. Pegula hadn't seen Whaley's team building succeed, regardless of the different factors that go into that, and the most important thing in building a successful team is cohesiveness between HC and GM. I think they are following the Falcons model --

http://www.myajc.com/sports/football/the-forced-marriage-quinn-and-dimitroff-blissful-union/cVvUForahqNls1QeuOXa9K/

 

I could be wrong but I had the impression that the seeds of Whaley's firing were laid back in November, and they were just waiting until after the draft to proceed *shrug*

 

I don't think one has to create narratives about it being "necessary" to push Whaley out the door or about "scouting not building a team". My personal thing is that the GM and coach usually come and go as a set. Give whichever one you hire first the partner he wants, and Ix Nay any down-the-road excuses.

[Buftex]

Hard to build a team when you have a different head coach and system to build for every 2 years. Like or hate Whaley, ignoring the fact that he wasn't allowed to pick his own coach and had 3 different coaches in his short time here is just wrong.

Exactly...the 2016 draft was all to support the Rex Ryans' vision...terrible coach, should have never been hired in the first place...but to just keep flipping coaches every two years is just bad. There was no coherent plan, because the GM, the one consistent, was hamstrung by coaches he didn't hire.

 

Fingers crossed they got it right this time, but it is hard not to have some doubts...

[Coach Tuesday]

"Whaley was all about scouting players; McDermott is about building a team. Scouts don’t always know how to build teams. They know only how to pick players. And a scout focused primarily on scouting players can succeed only in a fantasy draft."

Not to sound like BADOL - but this is what I have been saying about Whaley for YEARS...

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I understand where he's coming from there. Look at the Pats. Belichick has a definite type of player he needs to play the way he wants his team to play. So when drafting you need to have that paramount in your scouting, etc. sometimes a player with lesser apparent talent is the guy you want to draft because he's a better fit for what you want to achieve.

 

Except that the fingermarks of that have been all over the draft choices made - big hulking behemoth OL like Kouandjio, Cyrus Richardson when Marrone was here and that's what he wanted, DB like Russ Cockrell when Schwartz was here and that's what he wanted. Now Ryan is here and Cockrell doesn't fit, let him go play for playoff contender Pittsburgh, bring in smaller OL like Miller, a NT type, different profile of LB. The problem hasn't been that Whaley hasn't tried to bring in players that fit what the coach is trying to achieve; the problem is that Whaley has had to switch gears on what that is, every 2 years.

 

Something else. It's a mistake to characterize Belichick as having a "type" of player he needs. The only type of player Belichick needs is someone who will unswervingly "do your job" and do what is asked of them day in day out.

This can be seen by the way his D and his O both evolve to maximize the talent of the players they have. Example: look at 2011 when Brady had Welker, Gronkowski, Hernandez, and Branch as targets and passed for >5200 yds.

Now look at 2013, Hernandez in the pokey, Gronkowski in the trainer's room only starts 6 games, Amendola is not proving the Welker replacement they'd hoped for, Edelman does step up. Brady passes for 1000 less yards, they make up the difference with the rushing game, and the SOBs still win.

 

Bear this in mind, because if McWrestler truly needs a "type" of player to win we're not going forward much. I go with Wade Phillips who said if you can't fit good players and use them to good effect in your scheme, maybe you should look at whether your scheme is a problem.

[CommonCents]

"Whaley was all about scouting players; McDermott is about building a team. Scouts dont always know how to build teams. They know only how to pick players. And a scout focused primarily on scouting players can succeed only in a fantasy draft."

Not to sound like BADOL - but this is what I have been saying about Whaley for YEARS...

Haha that's exactly what I was saying! If we are patting our own backs, I'm down with it.

[oldmanfan]

 

Except that the fingermarks of that have been all over the draft choices made - big hulking behemoth OL like Kouandjio, Cyrus Richardson when Marrone was here and that's what he wanted, DB like Russ Cockrell when Schwartz was here and that's what he wanted. Now Ryan is here and Cockrell doesn't fit, let him go play for playoff contender Pittsburgh, bring in smaller OL like Miller, a NT type, different profile of LB. The problem hasn't been that Whaley hasn't tried to bring in players that fit what the coach is trying to achieve; the problem is that Whaley has had to switch gears on what that is, every 2 years.

 

Something else. It's a mistake to characterize Belichick as having a "type" of player he needs. The only type of player Belichick needs is someone who will unswervingly "do your job" and do what is asked of them day in day out.

This can be seen by the way his D and his O both evolve to maximize the talent of the players they have. Example: look at 2011 when Brady had Welker, Gronkowski, Hernandez, and Branch as targets and passed for >5200 yds.

Now look at 2013, Hernandez in the pokey, Gronkowski in the trainer's room only starts 6 games, Amendola is not proving the Welker replacement they'd hoped for, Edelman does step up. Brady passes for 1000 less yards, they make up the difference with the rushing game, and the SOBs still win.

 

Bear this in mind, because if McWrestler truly needs a "type" of player to win we're not going forward much. I go with Wade Phillips who said if you can't fit good players and use them to good effect in your scheme, maybe you should look at whether your scheme is a problem.

 

 

That's what I meant when referring to Belichick, and wasn't clear enough. Belichick wants a certain type of mentality would have been a better way of describing what I meant. You see hints of that in McD with the past draft. Rather than take the LB out of Bama, they chose the DB out of LSU with a solid four year record, valedictorian, good citizen, etc.

 

I have no idea how McD will do in the league as a HC. Look around the league and the vast majority of HCs are guys that were coordinators who then got their shot as HC. Some work out , some don't. I will say I like the approach thus far, and I am sure whomever comes in as GM will have a tightly shared visions of how to build a winning team and organization.

 

As for Whaley, I have commented before that he reminds me of the old company man of business back in the day. Do what the boss wants, don't make trouble, keep your head down and do your job. I wonder if Doug ever truly thought his job as GM was to articulate what he saw as a successful winning model that he'd fight for. Or did he view his job as the company man who does the bosses' bidding or HC in this case) and just get what the HC of the day wanted. I don't suppose we'll ever know, but I am sad it ended the way it did and I hoe he winds up running the personnel department for another team, because it may be a better fit for him.

[mbossman2]

Effective leaders operate under something called VSEM (Vision, Strategy, Execution, Metrics/Measurement). I am willing to bet that McDermott's pitch and interview hit on 3 or these (Metrics/Measurement are pretty self explanatory in a production environment) and those resonated with the Pegulas which is why they snapped him up.

[Gordio]

Effective leaders operate under something called VSEM (Vision, Strategy, Execution, Metrics/Measurement). I am willing to bet that McDermott's pitch and interview hit on 3 or these (Metrics/Measurement are pretty self explanatory in a production environment) and those resonated with the Pegulas which is why they snapped him up.

 

 

Yeah I am waiting to reserve judgment on this one. Pegs track record isn't the best & it is a great leap of faith to Mcd this kind of power when quite frankly he hasn't proven sh*t in this league except for the fact that he really can't be trusted if reports are true that he went to Pegs to get Whaley replaced. We will see if it works out, I doubt it will. My guess is 3 years from now we will be talking about a new regime that is in place.

[Shaw66]

Just discovered this duplicate thread, and this is one that seems to have legs, so I'll repost what I just said in the other thread.

 

I love hearing from the people who have been there. Now, I'm not sure how he knows the things he says and he knows, and in fact I suspect he can't prove much of what he says actually happened. I think he's speculating. But he's speculating from a perspective the rest of us don't have. He's been there and seen these dynamics up front and personal. So he's inclined to know even though he wasn't in the rooms at OBD.

Very interesting commentary, and believable. Thanks for posting.

[Guest NeckBeard]

https://theringer.com/nfl-buffalo-bills-gm-doug-whaley-fired-sean-mcdermott-d87e027bae86-d87e027bae86

 

"Good for the Bills. They may finally have a chance to catch the Pats. Not because Whaley was bad at his job, but rather because he was picking players, not building a team. Being a GM in the NFL is not like being a fantasy football owner. There has to be an understanding of the essentials needed for a team to succeed. And when the head coach and GM don’t agree on those essentials, there is chaos, followed by losing.

As Nantz told me years ago, no one cares who the GM is; if you’re winning, they care about only the head coach and quarterback. Now all the Bills need under Uncle Sean’s direction is a QB."

 

The last point is the worst. The team needs a QB, of course, but it's not like it's pristine otherwise. With passable QB play last year, what happened? 7-9. That's what.

[Kemp2Warlick]

Tyler Dunne‏Verified account @TyDunne 29m29 minutes ago

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