NoSaint Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 Foster's shoulder is a mess. You want another Reggie Ragland pick? Those are very different injuries. But tell me more about the details of his shoulder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurricane Marv Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 (edited) Gaining a 1st round pick while addressing a position of need is not a Buffalo Bills cyclical drafting habit, or whatever people are saying. It's that simple. Edited April 28, 2017 by Hurricane Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 Bills wanted Lattimore before the Chiefs trade (according to multiple sources). So, would you rather have Lattimore or White plus next year's 1st from the Chiefs and an extra 3rd round pick? I would rather have Foster and be doing cartwheels tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 White, unlike Gilmour will not screw you in pass defense. he's a solid corner, not flashy just gets the job done. I'll take him and another first and 3rd this year. It was a good call. Tim- I'm in full agreement. I think people are going to really take to this kid once they see him in action. There's no data that supports this. It's been talked about on here quite a bit that the perception doesn't actually match the amount of draft capital the Bills have spent on certain positions compared to other teams. This iteration of the franchise is not even 4 years old. How about we re-set the history with the Pegula's purchase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 If the pick was Lattimore, great move down. The question is why leave Reuben Foster on the board ? Take him and get a DB in round two that's just about as good as TW. This team needs difference makers in the front seven and solid players in the secondary. Set themselves up well, then screwed the pooch taking a CB and not a stud like Foster. A tweet about SEA (you know a team with a top end Def and needing LBer) Man, how unimpressed must John Schneider be with Reuben Foster to not only pass on him at No. 31 -- but hand him over to a division rival? Those are very different injuries. But tell me more about the details of his shoulder https://alabama.rivals.com/news/reuben-foster-explains-failed-drug-test-gives-update-on-injured-shoulder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D521646 Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 Already chalking him up better than Gilmore? Optimistic Not so much that, but when you factor in we have a 3rd this year and a first next year, and a whole ton of cash to sign other needs, if someone came to Whaley at the end of 2015 and offered that up, would you take it with one year left on SG contract? You get White (hypothetically speaking) 3rd, and 1st, and save 13m in cap.. So the question is, is Gilmour THAT much better? I don't think so, not even close. White is solid, he may not win games on his own, but he won't lose any either. Tim- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Kevi Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 For some of us, this argument does nothing to address the real frustration we have with this frustration: The cyclical drafting habits and lack of a long term plan. It's nice value, sure. I'm happy they got what they wanted and all that, but there is a real lack of planning going on here. Whaley drafted Gilmore, decided not to re-sign him, but then waited until after he didn't re-sign him to draft his replacement. I'm not sure what the plan was with that exactly. Waste a top 10 pick on Gilmore and go all-in with that for four years? What was the point - there's still no resolution at QB? It's a waste. It's all been a waste. It shows no foresight and don't tell me I haven't been saying this since the Winfield > Clements > Greer carousel started. This franchise has overvalued CB and RB in the draft and has suffered tremendously for nearly 20 years because they haven't had a consistent plan. If Tyrod Taylor really is the plan, then call me in three years and let's talk about how many playoff games we've won. Andy Reid could have been wrong about Mahomes, I don't know... I didn't follow the draft as closely this year, but if he's right it will just be another classic Bills draft hilarity. So you are upset for lack of a 20 year plan that spans 2 different owners, 6 GM's, and 10 HC's? Would be quite the logistical nightmare to coordinate this plan. Also, not overpaying talent, replacing them with young talent, at a much more manageable cap number, and two extra picks to boot seems pretty conventionally appealing. Just the type of thing that great teams do. We aren't a great team yet that is no doubt, but this is a great team type move. Not so much that, but when you factor in we have a 3rd this year and a first next year, and a whole ton of cash to sign other needs, if someone came to Whaley at the end of 2015 and offered that up, would you take it with one year left on SG contract? You get White (hypothetically speaking) 3rd, and 1st, and save 13m in cap.. So the question is, is Gilmour THAT much better? I don't think so, not even close. White is solid, he may not win games on his own, but he won't lose any either. Tim- Well put. Plus he, you know.... tackles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 So you are upset for lack of a 20 year plan that spans 2 different owners, 6 GM's, and 10 HC's? Would be quite the logistical nightmare to coordinate this plan. Also, not overpaying talent, replacing them with young talent, at a much more manageable cap number, and two extra picks to boot seems pretty conventionally appealing. Just the type of thing that great teams do. We aren't a great team yet that is no doubt, but this is a great team type move. No, you're right. The team has been managed expertly for the last 20 years. It's a real shock that they've missed the playoffs so consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcoam Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 I don't think 6-9 win teams should ever be trading up period for anybody unless its for a QB So IMO trading up for Sammy, Ragland, everyone else, was a bad idea This time they got it right I easily take the 3rd-5th best CB and all the picks over the best one Even the savings in cap hit, bonus, and 4 years salary benefits our Bills, short term, by trading down But that's just my opinion... jc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 For some of us, this argument does nothing to address the real frustration we have with this frustration: The cyclical drafting habits and lack of a long term plan. It's nice value, sure. I'm happy they got what they wanted and all that, but there is a real lack of planning going on here. Whaley drafted Gilmore, decided not to re-sign him, but then waited until after he didn't re-sign him to draft his replacement. I'm not sure what the plan was with that exactly. Waste a top 10 pick on Gilmore and go all-in with that for four years? What was the point - there's still no resolution at QB? It's a waste. It's all been a waste. It shows no foresight and don't tell me I haven't been saying this since the Winfield > Clements > Greer carousel started. This franchise has overvalued CB and RB in the draft and has suffered tremendously for nearly 20 years because they haven't had a consistent plan. If Tyrod Taylor really is the plan, then call me in three years and let's talk about how many playoff games we've won. Andy Reid could have been wrong about Mahomes, I don't know... I didn't follow the draft as closely this year, but if he's right it will just be another classic Bills draft hilarity. Excellent take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 You got to ask yourself one question, 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya? Punk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBud420 Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 Neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocemur Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 I think the lack of a long term plan is the result in turnover at the Head Coach position. The GM is hopefully trying to support what the HC is doing. Keep changing HC and the GM has to go back to square one and retool. Marrone quit, and Rex needed to go. I don't like it, but those are the facts. I'm not a fan of the organizational structure chosen by the Pegulas, either. The Gilmore to White transition just seems like normal business in the NFL. The fact that we got a first next year seems the opposite of business as usual for the Bills as it seems to be a move with an eye at the future, instead of giving up the future for the present like the Sammy trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 Looks like a plan to me...we had Gilmore for 4 years...he was decent...now we don't have to pay him top dollar and we draft his replacement. And pick up a first and a 3rd while doing it. Do you guy not get we just picked up 3 players for trading back 17 spots? You are missing the point. The point is we clearly value DBs enough to use high draft resources on them, but we don't value them enough to pay them. Are we going to extend Darby here soon, or are we going to let him walk and use another high draft pick too? It's been the same formula the last 20 years, either you value DBs enough to draft them highly and you pay the ones who can play, or you don't and you find guys with later draft picks. It's inconsistency in the approach. But again, it wouldn't be a massive deal if we weren't on 20 years of no playoffs, 20 years of garbage at RT, 20 years of garbage at QB, 15 years of only 1 good WR. We let Gilmore walk, basically so we could sign Andre Holmes, Patrick DiMarco and resign Jordan Mills. We received no compensation for Gilmore. We used a high 1st round pick to replace him. I know people were done with Gilmore because he didn't smile when he got drafted and he missed some tackles (FYI, White isn't a hitter either), but I don't understand why people feel the need to defend every decision by a franchise with a 20 year track record of making the wrong ones, or not making enough right ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 Bills wanted Lattimore before the Chiefs trade (according to multiple sources). So, would you rather have Lattimore or White plus next year's 1st from the Chiefs and an extra 3rd round pick? The Bills needed a CB, WR, TE, LBer, RT. This draft is supposedly very deep in defensive talent. From my point of view, the Bills did okay in trading back to pick up an extra 3rd rounder this year and a first-rounder next year. I know I'd think better of this trade had the Bills picked up another late round pick like a 5th either this year or next. Anyway, what do we know about this teams/GM's ability to evaluate talent? IMO they wouldn't know an elite QB prospect from a scrub even if the elite guy came up and slapped them in the face. Although, Whaley has done really well in drafting defensive players like Darby. First, it sucks that all the top WR's were gone by the #10 pick. Then, OJ Howard has bee compared to Eric Ebron by some and we all know how much he has done with Lions. Second, most scouts were saying that this year's draft class of QB's all needed developmental time before starting which means none had a very high grade as an impact starter. Besides, would you trust this team to develop a QB that needed a year or more to develop properly? Heck. even if Andy Reid does manage to develop Mahomes properly into a viable starter at some point. (and he certainly has his work cut out for him in going from a WC offense to a gunslinger who often has some WTF moments during games.)Why would Bills fans think he would get that same developmental process in Buffalo? This Bills picked a very solid player at CB in the first which filled a big need. Now they still need to find that WR, TE, LBer and right tackle. I'm thinking they find a starting quality LBer and not so much the WR, TE, RT. I'm fine with the trade and that first from the Chiefs next year will make up a bit for that lost 2015 first rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 I would rather have Foster and be doing cartwheels tonight. I didn't want Foster- bad shoulder - 3 concussions - tossed out of the combine - failed a drug test No thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 How many games did Lattimore miss because of hamstring issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 Not so much that, but when you factor in we have a 3rd this year and a first next year, and a whole ton of cash to sign other needs, if someone came to Whaley at the end of 2015 and offered that up, would you take it with one year left on SG contract? You get White (hypothetically speaking) 3rd, and 1st, and save 13m in cap.. So the question is, is Gilmour THAT much better? I don't think so, not even close. White is solid, he may not win games on his own, but he won't lose any either. Tim- You do realize we could trade back even (especially!) if we kept Gilmore, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcoam Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 Great Post Chuck Wagon, my criticism of the new mgmt team is not so much about letting Gilmore walk, trading down, and or selecting White, I actually like all 3 moves, and I think they are more financially prudent, with not that much of a talent drop-off Its A, what our Bills did with the savings, they didn't go out and sign anybody really interesting this year in FA, didn't sign a single player in the top 250, and instead signed a bunch of depth role players, maybe excepting Hyde and Dimarco, that negated getting valuable draft compensation for losing Gilmore If the plan is to acquire more draft picks, stop trading up, and trading them away, wonderful, but then we could really us that free 3rd and or 4th round comp picks next year on top of the extra first, do get proper compensation for having lost Gilmore, Woods, and Brown I just don't think much of what we signed in FA, it certainly doe snot point to winning 10 games this year, alas, I hope we do better in the draft, but then I remind folks, all the other teams greatly improve as well, we still have to improve more than them, to win those 10 games plus.... jc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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