Gillislee visits Pats

[KollegeStudnet]

But but but we would get a 5th round pick back in return..... 😂

 

Is that....our comp pick in 2017 then? 😂

[RyanC883]

should have a higher tender on him. if he leaves we need to draft a RB.

[Mr. WEO]

should have a higher tender on him. if he leaves we need to draft a RB.

 

What about the DWI kid: "I was in the NFL draft..."?

[JM2009]

should have a higher tender on him. if he leaves we need to draft a RB.

Which is called "spinning wheels".

[Logic]

should have a higher tender on him. if he leaves we need to draft a RB.

Should probably wait until he actually LEAVES to make this assessment. Because if he DOESN'T leave, then it means Whaley played this exactly correctly. Just like he did with Groy.

[Kirby Jackson]

We are going into year five with him as GM and this roster is still full of holes and lacks good depth. He's part of why this playoff drought continues.

So no one is accountable then. Just horrible bad luck. I see.

No, don't you see that 3 months ago it was Rex, before him it was Marrone, Brandon, Nix, Marv, Guy, Modrak, Donahoe, Hackett, EJ, Tyrod, Fitz, Losman, Edwards, etc, etc, etc... It reminds me of the scene in Dark Knight Rises where we the fans are bringing asking if they want to be marooned or killed.

 

Bills fans are frustrated (and rightfully so) but have had their perception of reality altered. The Bills are not the Browns. They have been an average football team in Whaley's regime. Their current QB is 15-14. They were poorly coached in that period. We need to start judging everything on it's own merits. "Finally something he is good at" is just wrong. The guy signed 2 guys off the scrap heap last year that went to the Pro Bowl. He drafted Karlos and signed Gillislee who excelled in their roles. He has TT for less than market value and found an average starting QB out on the street. He let Byrd walk when against many people's wishes. He added Incognito off the street. When we think Whaley we shouldn't be talking about Mike Williams or Maybin or Losman. Let's judge the job that HE has done. The Bills don't have a lot of bad FA signings, or contracts. The drafts have been okay. There has been good and bad in his regime and that is why the Bills are an average football team (think that they are exactly .500 over the last 3 years). That isn't a reason for a parade but it isn't time to sharpen the pitchforks either. I am not trying to pick on you but this mentality on here has gotten completely ridiculous in the last couple of years.

Edited April 13, 2017 by Kirby Jackson

[YoloinOhio]

should have a higher tender on him. if he leaves we need to draft a RB.

has any team ever put a 1st or 2nd round tender on a backup RB? If not, why would the Bills? Their choices are no tender, original round (5th), 2nd, 1st.

 

We just went through this with Groy, another beloved backup. If the team is tying to sign a player to a multi-year deal (they are) and they place a 2nd or 1st round tender on him, you are telling the agent he is worth that and it hurts your negotiations. Neither of these players is worth that. Both are worth about a 5th.

Edited April 13, 2017 by YoloinOhio

[JM2009]

No, don't you see that 3 months ago it was Rex, before him it was Marrone, Brandon, Nix, Marv, Guy, Modrak, Donahoe, Hackett, EJ, Tyrod, Fitz, Losman, Edwards, etc, etc, etc... It reminds me of the scene in Dark Knight Rises where we the fans are bringing asking if they want to be marooned or killed.

 

Bills fans are frustrated (and rightfully so) but have had their perception of reality altered. The Bills are not the Browns. They have been an average football team in Whaley's regime. Their current QB is 15-14. They were poorly coached in that period. We need to start judging everything on it's own merits. "Finally something he is good at" is just wrong. The guy signed 2 guys off the scrap heap last year that went to the Pro Bowl. He drafted Karlos and signed Gillislee who excelled in their role. He has TT for less than market value and found an average starting QB out on the street. He let Byrd walk when against many people's wishes. He added Incognito off the street. When we think Whaley we shouldn't be talking about Mike Williams or Maybin or Losman. Let's judge the job that HE has done. The Bills don't have a lot of bad FA signings, or contracts. The drafts have been okay. There has been good and bad in his regime and that is why the Bills are an average football team (think that they are exactly .500 over the last 3 years). That isn't a reason for a parade but it isn't time to sharpen the pitchforks either. I am not trying to pick on you but this mentality on here has gotten completely ridiculous in the last couple of years.

His drafting isn't very good. He is average at best overall, which isn't good enough. A GM that said EJ had the "it" factor and wanted TT off the roster should not be GM.Still to many holes and lack of good depth on this roster. At the moment, if Watkins goes down, we have the worst WR group in the NFL.

[fridge]

His drafting isn't very good. He is average at best overall, which isn't good enough. A GM that said EJ had the "it" factor and wanted TT off the roster should not be GM.Still to many holes and lack of good depth on this roster. At the moment, if Watkins goes down, we have the worst WR group in the NFL.

 

If? Do we not currently have the worst WR group in the NFL?

[Kirby Jackson]

His drafting isn't very good. He is average at best overall, which isn't good enough. A GM that said EJ had the "it" factor and wanted TT off the roster should not be GM.Still to many holes and lack of good depth on this roster. At the moment, if Watkins goes down, we have the worst WR group in the NFL.

I totally agree on the QBs. That situation was beyond terrible.

 

The depth of the roster isn't an issue IMO but they are missing 4 starters. If they don't fill those than reserves get bumped to starters and scrubs to reserves. If they find a starting WLB, CB, WR and S the depth will be fine (especially if they sign Wright and Gillislee). They have a bunch of #3 - 7 type of receivers. They are missing a 2 so it looks thin. If you add Mike Williams (as an example) you receivers are better than last year. If you add Budda Baker (as an example) your S are better. LB could be better as well getting Ragland instead of ZB (especially if they add a decent player).

 

My whole point was to take the good with the bad. It was not directed at you specifically. This entire community has been so, so negative. Average is not good enough but that doesn't mean that everything is bad.

[cba fan]

If the Patriots signed Gillislee would we get the Patriots' 163rd pick or 183rd pick?

Pats would send their 2018 5th round pick. Don't worry though.

 

The odds of bellichick draft pick misers giving up a 5th for Gillislee are about as good as a board member having their way with Giselle Brady for one night.

[fridge]

I totally agree on the QBs. That situation was beyond terrible.

 

The depth of the roster isn't an issue IMO but they are missing 4 starters. If they don't fill those than reserves get bumped to starters and scrubs to reserves. If they find a starting WLB, CB, WR and S the depth will be fine (especially if they sign Wright and Gillislee). They have a bunch of #3 - 7 type of receivers. They are missing a 2 so it looks thin. If you add Mike Williams (as an example) you receivers are better than last year. If you add Budda Baker (as an example) your S are better. LB could be better as well getting Ragland instead of ZB (especially if they add a decent player).

 

My whole point was to take the good with the bad. It was not directed at you specifically. This entire community has been so, so negative. Average is not good enough but that doesn't mean that everything is bad.

 

I get what you're saying, and I agree that the crusade on Whaley is tiresome, but surely you can't be serious about depth.

 

We often blame our record on injuries and every year we end up playing games with inadequate starters at key positions because no one is "ready" to step up. I would argue that WR depth was TSW's favorite excuse for losses last season. We consistently neglect to groom our depth players into starter positions like better teams. We've had plenty of young safeties the last two or three years, and none of them emerged as anything.

 

The problem with evaluating this team is that the Rex Ryan hiring was so bad that it makes everything else seem inconsequential. I have no idea how to judge this roster or this coaching staff. When Marrone left it seemed like we had a great defensive roster and had a wonderful opportunity to bring in a solid coach and continue on with the plan. Bringing in Rex did not just ruin our team on the field, but on paper as well. If Whaley had a plan it was reversed. Our roster regressed and the team made terribly short-sided decisions.

[YoloinOhio]

Pats would send their 2018 5th round pick. Don't worry though.

 

The odds of bellichick draft pick misers giving up a 5th for Gillislee are about as good as a board member having their way with Giselle Brady for one night.

Its their 2017 pick, original 5th

[Kirby Jackson]

 

I get what you're saying, and I agree that the crusade on Whaley is tiresome, but surely you can't be serious about depth.

 

We often blame our record on injuries and every year we end up playing games with inadequate starters at key positions because no one is "ready" to step up. I would argue that WR depth was TSW's favorite excuse for losses last season. We consistently neglect to groom our depth players into starter positions like better teams. We've had plenty of young safeties the last two or three years, and none of them emerged as anything.

 

The problem with evaluating this team is that the Rex Ryan hiring was so bad that it makes everything else seem inconsequential. I have no idea how to judge this roster or this coaching staff. When Marrone left it seemed like we had a great defensive roster and had a wonderful opportunity to bring in a solid coach and continue on with the plan. Bringing in Rex did not just ruin our team on the field, but on paper as well. If Whaley had a plan it was reversed. Our roster regressed and the team made terribly short-sided decisions.

On the first bold, I am not sure which teams are grooming late round, young players into starters? We live in our bubble some but there aren't teams consistently turning their 4-UDFA players into starters. The roster that I know the most outside of the Bills is probably the Saints and theirs is like ours. It is full of early draft picks, signings and trades. We are like anyone else in that we have some (Seymour, Kyle, Seantrel) but for the most part it is comprised of early draft picks, trades and FA signings. If I look at the depth chart today:

 

LT: Glenn (2nd round)

LG: Richie (FA)

C: Wood (1st Round)

RG: Miller (3rd Round)

RT: Mills (FA)

QB: Tyrod (FA)

RB: Shady (Trade)

TE: Clay (FA)

WR1: Sammy (1st Round)

WR2: Holmes (FA)

​DE: Hughes (Trade)

DT: Dareus (1st Round)

DT: Kyle (5th Round)

DE: Shaq (1st Round)

LB: Preston Brown (3rd Round)

LB: Ragland (2nd Round)

LB: Alexander (FA)

CB: Darby (2nd Round)

CB: Seymour (6th Round)

S: Hyde (FA)

S: Poyer (FA)

 

I agree on everything Rex Ryan related. He set the team back. That was a monumental error and has prevented the team from taking the next step.

[YoloinOhio]

Not Gillislee's fault but I'm still bitter that ALynn didn't trust him with the ball at the end of the Miami game and gave it to !@#$ing Reggie Bush instead with playoffs on the line

[BillsVet]

He sucks at scrap heap free agents too!! He only had 2 of them go to the Pro Bowl last year. Whaley is so bad at his job!! I can't believe he brought us Maybin!!! The day he gets fired McDermott will be terrible at his, then it will be the next GM, etc... Someone needs to be accountable for the last 17 years!!!!!!!

 

No, don't you see that 3 months ago it was Rex, before him it was Marrone, Brandon, Nix, Marv, Guy, Modrak, Donahoe, Hackett, EJ, Tyrod, Fitz, Losman, Edwards, etc, etc, etc... It reminds me of the scene in Dark Knight Rises where we the fans are bringing asking if they want to be marooned or killed.

 

Bills fans are frustrated (and rightfully so) but have had their perception of reality altered. The Bills are not the Browns. They have been an average football team in Whaley's regime. Their current QB is 15-14. They were poorly coached in that period. We need to start judging everything on it's own merits. "Finally something he is good at" is just wrong. The guy signed 2 guys off the scrap heap last year that went to the Pro Bowl. He drafted Karlos and signed Gillislee who excelled in their roles. He has TT for less than market value and found an average starting QB out on the street. He let Byrd walk when against many people's wishes. He added Incognito off the street. When we think Whaley we shouldn't be talking about Mike Williams or Maybin or Losman. Let's judge the job that HE has done. The Bills don't have a lot of bad FA signings, or contracts. The drafts have been okay. There has been good and bad in his regime and that is why the Bills are an average football team (think that they are exactly .500 over the last 3 years). That isn't a reason for a parade but it isn't time to sharpen the pitchforks either. I am not trying to pick on you but this mentality on here has gotten completely ridiculous in the last couple of years.

 

Good old "Whales." The teflon GM. It's not his fault the fans are skeptical after all these years, 4 of which with him as GM. Or that he couldn't hire the last 3 HC's. Or that his drafts were pedestrian and included ill-advised trades up. Or that Overdorf signed those bad contracts. Or that they were limited in cap dollars because of the big spending in '15. Or that his QB didn't work out. Or that there were injuries to Watkins, Lawson, et al.

 

But look over there...we signed Lorenzo Alexander and Zack Brown!

 

He isn't totally at fault. But he shares in a large part of the blame, because he's the GM. The Whaley apology tour has lost a lot of its luster, particularly after that end of season PC.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

Good old "Whales." The teflon GM. It's not his fault the fans are skeptical after all these years, 4 of which with him as GM. Or that he couldn't hire the last 3 HC's. Or that his drafts were pedestrian and included ill-advised trades up. Or that Overdorf signed those bad contracts. Or that they were limited in cap dollars because of the big spending in '15. Or that his QB didn't work out. Or that there were injuries to Watkins, Lawson, et al.

 

But look over there...we signed Lorenzo Alexander and Zack Brown!

 

He isn't totally at fault. But he shares in a large part of the blame, because he's the GM. The Whaley apology tour has lost a lot of its luster, particularly after that end of season PC.

Shocked to see you chiming in!! They paid a QB a couple of million dollars a year for 47 TDs and 12 INTs. You wouldn't say that worked out?!?

 

In terms of "limited in cap dollars" no they weren't/aren't. They have restructures for Dareus and Glenn sitting in their back pocket. They have not had to pass on anyone because they couldnt afford them. They let some guys walk because they didn't think the value was there (like Byrd). I'm not sure who the salary cap cuts or FA that they passed on because they couldn't afford were. Feel free to share those names...

 

In terms of the drafts, I agree that they have been just okay. I'm not sure which bad contracts you are referring to? The guys making the most on the Bills are their best players. That's the goal. Whaley has done an okay job. That's not great or not terrible. That's been my point the whole time. I was responding to someone that said he's never done anything right. That just isn't true.

[without a drought]

He sucks at scrap heap free agents too!! He only had 2 of them go to the Pro Bowl last year. Whaley is so bad at his job!! I can't believe he brought us Maybin!!! The day he gets fired McDermott will be terrible at his, then it will be the next GM, etc... Someone needs to be accountable for the last 17 years!!!!!!!

I can't believe he wasted a first round pick on Tony Hunter.

[BillsVet]

Shocked to see you chiming in!! They paid a QB a couple of million dollars a year for 47 TDs and 12 INTs. You wouldn't say that worked out?!?

 

In terms of "limited in cap dollars" no they weren't/aren't. They have restructures for Dareus and Glenn sitting in their back pocket. They have not had to pass on anyone because they couldnt afford them. They let some guys walk because they didn't think the value was there (like Byrd). I'm not sure who the salary cap cuts or FA that they passed on because they couldn't afford were. Feel free to share those names...

 

In terms of the drafts, I agree that they have been just okay. I'm not sure which bad contracts you are referring to? The guys making the most on the Bills are their best players. That's the goal. Whaley has done an okay job. That's not great or not terrible. That's been my point the whole time. I was responding to someone that said he's never done anything right. That just isn't true.

Likewise I'm shocked to see you defending Whaley again. But you well know the TT acquisition was pushed by Rex while Whaley that off-season talked up EJM. Besides touchdown to interception ratio is still not wins and losses. Still, you push the narrative the GM wanted real competition for his 1st round pick.

 

Would Doug Whaley still have his job in 31 other front offices after 4 years of no playoffs? Because according to my research only one current general manager has gone that long without making the playoffs. And that is Dave Caldwell in Jacksonville, who now reports to Tom Coughlin.

 

The apologist tour...still running on funes...continues on!

[Rico]

Likewise I'm shocked to see you defending Whaley again. But you well know the TT acquisition was pushed by Rex while Whaley that off-season talked up EJM. Besides touchdown to interception ratio is still not wins and losses. Still, you push the narrative the GM wanted real competition for his 1st round pick.

 

Would Doug Whaley still have his job in 31 other front offices after 4 years of no playoffs? Because according to my research only one current general manager has gone that long without making the playoffs. And that is Dave Caldwell in Jacksonville, who now reports to Tom Coughlin.

 

The apologist tour...still running on funes...continues on!

Checkmate.