Chuck Wagon Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Follow along slowly Chuck, I said the move would make sense if you had a pocket passer in tow like Romo etc. We don't have that, we can't even find that or make it happen under the cap. I didn't suggest signing him, I said that's what would justify overpaying for a pass blocking RT. The Bouye was in retort to Bandit taking about Gilmore. They both play CB right? I can't stand Gilmore, so I said Bouye. Hint hint they will both likely ink deals that are relatively close in dollars and the point was about positional value. I'm not going to keep going on this, he hasn't even signed and we still don't have an answer on TT. I just would not put enough value on Wagner and fall short at other positions, ecspecially while Taylor is behind that line. So a strong oline doesn't help a mobile QB? I'd think any QB or RB would benefit being behind a strong oline. Certainly helped a pair of rookies shine in Dallas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Yeah, like I said, they're just different philosophies. Obviously I disagree regarding good LT/serviceable RT. In fact, that's what most teams are doing now. You'll be hard-pressed to find any teams paying both tackles serious money. Where I think we differ the most is that I look at FA and the draft as mutually-exclusive team-building operations. I'm looking to fill holes in FA without any thought of what I'm doing in the draft. In that vein, I can more efficiently allocate resources to the combination of guys like Zach Brown, Bethea, Verner, and a situational pass rusher than I can to guys like Wagner and Juszczyk. I then go into the draft and take the best players at premium positions, without any regard of what I do in FA. Again, just my philosophy. This only works for teams who have the cap space to do that though and you're going to pay far less for a star RT than a star CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 They pick him up and they can dump Henderson. Pick up Juice they can dump Felton. Not going to be as expensive as we think. Henderson's release would only save $1.8M against the cap in 2017, and Felton is a UFA., so it's still pretty darn expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 I would find this to be a big mistake. I think Wagner is good, but paying big money for a RT is ill-advised IMO. fully agree. Not that he won't improve us but we have better options. The spin is already interesting. "Change of direct on". "Surprising". " new bold signing" .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodrigo Borgia Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 I would find this to be a big mistake. I think Wagner is good, but paying big money for a RT is ill-advised IMO. Which of these would you prefer: Jordan Mills starting at RT, drafting an unproven rookie like Ryan Ramcyzk in the 1st, or going with an established veteran who has worked with Juan Castillo in the past and would be, at least, somewhat familiar with Dennison's offense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan2313 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 They pick him up and they can dump Henderson. Pick up Juice they can dump Felton. Not going to be as expensive as we think. I think Felton is already a UFA? Good point on Henderson. Could save about 1.8 million cutting Henderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 This only works for teams who have the cap space to do that though and you're going to pay far less for a star RT than a star CB. Not really. Gilmore is apparently talking in the $13M AAV range, while we have reports that Wagner is going to "blow up" the RT market. Maybe these reports aren't considering Lane Johnson's deal because he's the eventual heir-apparent to Jason Peters at LT, but if I'm Wagner's agent I sure would be...so we're probably talking in the $11M AAV range for Wagner. And in my plan of signing the type of guys I mention, this team has more than enough cap space to bring in impact FAs at positions of need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Wyatt Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Henderson's release would only save $1.8M against the cap in 2017, and Felton is a UFA., so it's still pretty darn expensive. It is still savings which helps certainly, but we can structure his contract with a low cap number this year since he will be getting a signing bonus which is paid upfront so it wont really impact his earnings. Plus I read we have a lot of cap room for next year, why not use some of that to sure up the OL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 You build teams from the lines back. A good Oline enhances any offense, not just one with a pocket passer. We can agree to disagree, the line as a whole is already more than serviceable. The YPC numbers reflect that and Taylor is the king of broken plays. If we had a statue back there throwing lasers I'm all for building that wall. Our QB is at his best when the play is broken. An upgrade at RT, no doubt. The top RT on the market? Hrmm sure if you say so. Is this signing going to allow TT to anticipate his throws from the pocket? Or is the ball still going to come out late after he refuses to throw it and then goes into improv mode? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 My other counter point. Rookie QBs are very cheap. I'd certainly feel better about a rookie QB (or Cardale, another cheap option)'s chances of success behind a very good Oline. Signing Wagner could increase the comfort level of flipping Tyrod for a draft pick (if that option is on the table), freeing up another large chunk of cap space and moving forward with a more cost efficient higher upside option at QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Which of these would you prefer: Jordan Mills starting at RT, drafting an unproven rookie like Ryan Ramcyzk in the 1st, or going with an established veteran who has worked with Juan Castillo in the past and would be, at least, somewhat familiar with Dennison's offense? Neither. I wouldn't touch an OT in the first 2 rounds of this draft. I would kick the tires on a guy like Vollmer to see what's left in the tank, then look at a guy like Dawkins or Roderick Johnson in R3 to compete at RT. If worst came to worst, I'd explore moving Glenn to RT for a year and playing Kouandjio at RT. Let's remember, as we clamor for Wagner, that he was a 5th round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreddieJizzle22 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 We're going to give him Langston Walker money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Wyatt Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 We can agree to disagree, the line as a whole is already more than serviceable. The YPC numbers reflect that and Taylor is the king of broken plays. If we had a statue back there throwing lasers I'm all for building that wall. Our QB is at his best when the play is broken. An upgrade at RT, no doubt. The top RT on the market? Hrmm sure if you say so. Is this signing going to allow TT to anticipate his throws from the pocket? Or is the ball still going to come out late after he refuses to throw it and then goes into improv mode? We want more than, "more than serviceable" I think is the difference. We want dominant. That helps every part of the O. It makes DBs have to cover our WR's longer, we can be less predictable in the run game, and get a better push to pick up the 3rd and shorts. And think of this. Say it takes longer for the protection to break down now on a pass play, TT still has the ability to extend plays there, its not like his mobility is still not an asset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsherd Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 So when do we start hearing unofficial reports of which free agent is going where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Neither. I wouldn't touch an OT in the first 2 rounds of this draft. I would kick the tires on a guy like Vollmer to see what's left in the tank, then look at a guy like Dawkins or Roderick Johnson in R3 to compete at RT. If worst came to worst, I'd explore moving Glenn to RT for a year and playing Kouandjio at RT. Let's remember, as we clamor for Wagner, that he was a 5th round pick. I like the Kujo - LT / Cordy - RT formation, but I don't think Cordy does and if Kujo shines he's going to be very expensive to retain, so either you are starting over anyway or in the same position you argue against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Neither. I wouldn't touch an OT in the first 2 rounds of this draft. I would kick the tires on a guy like Vollmer to see what's left in the tank, then look at a guy like Dawkins or Roderick Johnson in R3 to compete at RT. If worst came to worst, I'd explore moving Glenn to RT for a year and playing Kouandjio at RT. Let's remember, as we clamor for Wagner, that he was a 5th round pick. They probably also feel that if they solidify the RT spot, they gain flexibility at the QB position (i.e., they can go with someone who is more of a statue than Tyrod)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 We want more than, "more than serviceable" I think is the difference. We want dominant. That helps every part of the O. It makes DBs have to cover our WR's longer, we can be less predictable in the run game, and get a better push to pick up the 3rd and shorts. And think of this. Say it takes longer for the protection to break down now on a pass play, TT still has the ability to extend plays there, its not like his mobility is still not an asset. His habit of leaving the pocket long before it breaks down was well documented last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Wyatt Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 (edited) His habit of leaving the pocket long before it breaks down was well documented last season. That could also be because we had Mills as our RT so he may have felt pressure that wasn't there (due to Mills being awful). Edited March 8, 2017 by Bray Wyatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 I like the Kujo - LT / Cordy - RT formation, but I don't think Cordy does and if Kujo shines he's going to be very expensive to retain, so either you are starting over anyway or in the same position you argue against. I don't see why Cordy would care--the big issue with not moving to RT is wanting to be paid like a LT, and Cordy already is. As for Kouandjio, I'm totally fine if he looks good and gets LT money in FA. That gives me a year to groom a mid-round pick to replace him, and also gives me a very likely 3rd round compensatory pick in 2019. They probably also feel that if they solidify the RT spot, they gain flexibility at the QB position (i.e., they can go with someone who is more of a statue than Tyrod)... True...I'm approaching the entire situation as though they're keeping Tyrod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 When you draft a rookie QB it is best to have a strong line and effective running game. Is this the Bills plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts