Romo to KC rumor could make Bills landing spot for A. Smith

[aristocrat]

Derek.

 

well they made him look like david...but yea mind fart

[GunnerBill]

Tyrods no franchise QB. But either is Smith. If I had to choose between Smith or Tyrod I'd choose Tyrod at this point in their careers.

So would I at cost neutral or near to. The only reason this is a debate is that Smith has no dead money if you have him for 2017 then move on whereas Tyrod has enough to stop that being an option.

[Mr. WEO]

 

What an odd way to cut the stats. I could understand if you want to look at him just in KC.... but to ignore his first play-off game there for no good reason is odd. Is it because he threw for 378, 4TDs and 0INTs? I'm not a huge Alex Smith fan but if you are going to try and knock him down on stats let's at least have a fair consideration of what he has done.

 

Because he hasn't done anything like that since that lone playoff game you cite from 4 years ago. It's not representative of his current playoff performance.

 

I didn't think it was odd way to make this point.

[section122]

Winning is the point, and he pantsed Tyrod last time they played each other.

 

No Maclin, no Jamal Charles = still winning

 

Tyrod > cousins smith romo Watson Trubisky tho

 

The last time they played:

 

Tyrod - 21-38 for 291, 3tds and 0 ints, 46 rushing yards against the 7th ranked defense by yards, 3rd ranked scoring defense

 

Smith 19-30 for 255, 2tds and 0 ints, 35 rushing yards against the 19th ranked defense by yards, 15th ranked scoring defense

 

So Tyrod put up better stats against a better defense. Not exactly the pantsing you described...

[Maury Ballstein]

The last time they played:

 

Tyrod - 21-38 for 291, 3tds and 0 ints, 46 rushing yards against the 7th ranked defense by yards, 3rd ranked scoring defense

 

Smith 19-30 for 255, 2tds and 0 ints, 35 rushing yards against the 19th ranked defense by yards, 15th ranked scoring defense

 

So Tyrod put up better stats against a better defense. Not exactly the pantsing you described...

Did you watch the 2nd half ? Sammy was torching double teams and had over 100 yards and 2 Td's at the half iirc.

 

Tyrod stopped throwing to Sammy and Smith pantsed him. 6 point second half ain't gonna get it done, this is Tyrod's main problem. Zero consistency

Edited February 23, 2017 by Ryan L Billz

[ndirish1978]

Did you watch the 2nd half ? Sammy was torching double teams and had over 100 yards and 2 Td's at the half iirc.

 

Tyrod stopped throwing to Sammy and Smith pantsed him. 6 point second half ain't gonna get it done

 

THIS. Stats are worthless unless you also consider the in-game situation. Tyrod doesn't throw INTs but he also doesn't move the ball when we need him to. When the team's back has been against the wall he has consistently failed to move them down the field for a score. It doesn't matter if you throw for 50 TDs in the first half if you're down by 4 and have one drive to score and you go 3 and out.

Edited February 23, 2017 by ndirish1978

[section122]

Did you watch the 2nd half ? Sammy was torching double teams and had over 100 yards and 2 Td's at the half iirc.

 

Tyrod stopped throwing to Sammy and Smith pantsed him. 6 point second half ain't gonna get it done, this is Tyrod's main problem. Zero consistency

 

I did indeed watch that game. You stated that Tyrod got pantsed by Smith and the numbers show that not to be true. Tyrod played a good overall game in a tough environment. He did indeed not play as well in the second half as the first but he didn't get pantsed by Smith as you supposed.

 

 

THIS. Stats are worthless unless you also consider the in-game situation. Tyrod doesn't throw INTs but he also doesn't move the ball when we need him to. When the team's back has been against the wall he has consistently failed to move them down the field for a score. It doesn't matter if you throw for 50 TDs in the first half if you're down by 4 and have one drive to score and you go 3 and out.

 

In the Miami game he did just this. Defense gave up 34 points

 

Against Seattle he did just this. The o-line gave up a terrible sack and they didn't convert on 4th and 15. Defense gave up 31 points

 

In the first Jets game he did march them down for a score at the end of the game. They ran out of time to do so again. Defense gave up 37 points.

 

That's 3 of the 8 losses, 3 more losses the d gave up 200+ yards rushing, so we are at 6 of 8. Leaves us with the 2nd Pats game and and the Raiders game. Neither were 1 score games and the defense gave up 38 and 41 points. The Bills gave up 25+ points in 8 games. That is 8 games where the Offense needs to score 3 tds and a fg just to be down only 1!

 

I get that we haven't seen him lead 4th Quarter comebacks however the Bills just fired their coach for having such a poor defense. How many teams win games when their opponent scores 30+? In the middle of this year a stat came out that Ryan coached teams are 9-48 when the opposition scores 22+. In game situations involve so much more than just what is happening right then and there. They are an accumulation of all events to that point. So you can't discount "50tds in the first half" sometimes you have to ask why should they be required to score 51.

Edited February 23, 2017 by section122

[Maury Ballstein]

A 6 point second half with an uncoverable wideout and Lesean McCoy isn't good.

 

I know you like him and I think he's a waste of time but Smith made the plays to win the game when Tyrod was nowhere to be found.

[reddogblitz]

I always said Smith can't win in the playoffs but maybe just maybe.....no never mind, he can't.

I looked it up. Over the last 11 years, Alex had played in 6 playoff games with his team winning 2 and losing 4. Over the same timeframe, Bills QBs are 0-0. But, keep your nose in the air.

 

Alex's team wins in part because he's smart. And, he often comes through late when the game is on the line. VERY DIFFERENT than our current occupant.

 

If I had the opportunity to swap Hotrod for Alex, I'd do it in 1/2 a New York heartbeat.

 

Go BILLS!!

[section122]

A 6 point second half with an uncoverable wideout and Lesean McCoy isn't good.

 

I know you like him and I think he's a waste of time but Smith made the plays to win the game when Tyrod was nowhere to be found.

 

A video played in the background while I checked the stats and they were talking about the different strategy. Apparently KC dropped a safety deep to shadow Watkins effectively having him doubled the entire second half.

 

As to an uncoverable Watkins, did you know that Maclin had a better day than him? Maclin went for 9 for 160. Shady averaged a robust 3.7 ypc as well while KC piled up a 5.9 ypc.

 

Smith played against a much worse d that Tyrod did and played worse than him. KC had 2 long drives at the end of the 3rd and start of the 4th that sealed the game. Both relied on the running game and both ended on fgs. KC certainly won the game but it wasn't because Smith pantsed Tyrod or even played as good as him...

I looked it up. Over the last 11 years, Alex had played in 6 playoff games with his team winning 2 and losing 4. Over the same timeframe, Bills QBs are 0-0. But, keep your nose in the air.

 

Alex's team wins in part because he's smart. And, he often comes through late when the game is on the line. VERY DIFFERENT than our current occupant.

 

If I had the opportunity to swap Hotrod for Alex, I'd do it in 1/2 a New York heartbeat.

 

Go BILLS!!

 

Alex's teams win because they have fantastic defenses...

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

 

A video played in the background while I checked the stats and they were talking about the different strategy. Apparently KC dropped a safety deep to shadow Watkins effectively having him doubled the entire second half.

 

As to an uncoverable Watkins, did you know that Maclin had a better day than him? Maclin went for 9 for 160. Shady averaged a robust 3.7 ypc as well while KC piled up a 5.9 ypc.

 

Smith played against a much worse d that Tyrod did and played worse than him. KC had 2 long drives at the end of the 3rd and start of the 4th that sealed the game. Both relied on the running game and both ended on fgs. KC certainly won the game but it wasn't because Smith pantsed Tyrod or even played as good as him...

 

Alex's teams win because they have fantastic defenses...

Did they show some of Sammy's catches from that game? They were all in the first half and he had 2 or 3 defenders around him at times. It didn't matter, he still went for 150+ and 2 TDs and the Bills led at halftime on the road over a playoff team.

 

In the second half Tyrod targeted Sammy once with an uncatchable ball and the Bills lost.

 

But while the Bills wasted an opportunity to beat a good AFC team, Tyrod had an excellent statline.

[Tenhigh]

He definitely throws the ball all over the intermediate part of the field. People would then be screaming about us not taking enough shots at deep throws to Watkins. It's a lose, lose situation.

On the board would finally get to see Ryan and FireChan shut up on the subject, so there is at least one win. Plus a whole new set of poorly phrased and grammatically error ridden topics from major bobby, so there is 2...

[Maury Ballstein]

On the board would finally get to see Ryan and FireChan shut up on the subject, so there is at least one win. Plus a whole new set of poorly phrased and grammatically error ridden topics from major bobby, so there is 2...

Let's bash the army veteran because he doesn't like the 20th ish best qb in the league.

 

Solid play.

[Tenhigh]

Let's bash the army veteran because he doesn't like the 20th ish best qb in the league.

 

Solid play.

You mean Alex Smith? Or are you justifying Bobby's crusade because he was in the army? If so, what is your excuse? Edited February 24, 2017 by Tenhigh

[reddogblitz]

Alex's teams win because they have fantastic defenses...

Oh please ...

 

What does Alex do, take a knee on every play and let's the defense win it for him?

 

I was at a game at the Ralph a few years ago when our defense was good. Cheaps won because Alex scored from 30+ yards out on a keeper because Lawson wasn't staying home. Later he audibles out of a different play to give it to Charles again because Lawson was again not staying home. That's how his smarts help the Cheaps win.

 

I also saw him pull victory in from the jaws of defeat in a game this year. That's infinity more than Hotrod has EVER done for us.

Edited February 24, 2017 by reddogblitz

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Alex Smith pantsed Tyrod and goes to the playoffs all the time.

 

[Thurman#1]

It's pretty much only because he's had winning seasons people want him.

 

Tyrod is seen as a .500 QB because the team went .500 the past couple season thanks mostly to a ****ty head coach and underperforming defense.... but the crusade will continue...

 

 

That may be true for some people.

 

But for plenty of others it's not what we're focused on. I'm one of those who goes on endlessly that wins and losses is a team stat and that you judge a QB by how well he plays QB, not by whether his field goal kicker misses or makes one or because the MLB on his team drops an easy pick-six.

 

And I simply think Alex Smith has a higher ceiling than Tyrod does. And that teams have figured Tyrod out. I'd take Alex Smith in a heartbeat, though I'm not thrilled about the age, and there are plenty of other guys I'd take over either. And after I had Smith (and certainly Tyrod too), I'd draft the next QB who reached me that I thought had a good chance to be made into a franchise QB. And probably the next after that as well.

I think that's the problem, your use of the word mostly.

 

Tyrod is part of the reason the Bills were around .500. And those reasons don't always show up on the stat sheets. Missed throws and missed reads. Bailing on clean pockets. Slow pass release. No two-minute offense.

 

It's not a crusade to question Tyrods effectiveness. I'm still 50/50 on him. I was unbelievably frustrated with him at times and he feels a lot like Fitz. Exciting at times, can do some things but will never carry a team.

 

And McDermott, having talked to Tyrod and being a reported film junkie, should have answers to the why and what happened in those plays. Hopefully this decision to either extend Tyrod or not, is an educated one.

 

 

Nicely put.

 

I did indeed watch that game. You stated that Tyrod got pantsed by Smith and the numbers show that not to be true. Tyrod played a good overall game in a tough environment. He did indeed not play as well in the second half as the first but he didn't get pantsed by Smith as you supposed.

 

 

In the Miami game he did just this. Defense gave up 34 points

 

Against Seattle he did just this. The o-line gave up a terrible sack and they didn't convert on 4th and 15. Defense gave up 31 points

 

In the first Jets game he did march them down for a score at the end of the game. They ran out of time to do so again. Defense gave up 37 points.

 

That's 3 of the 8 losses, 3 more losses the d gave up 200+ yards rushing, so we are at 6 of 8. Leaves us with the 2nd Pats game and and the Raiders game. Neither were 1 score games and the defense gave up 38 and 41 points. The Bills gave up 25+ points in 8 games. That is 8 games where the Offense needs to score 3 tds and a fg just to be down only 1!

 

I get that we haven't seen him lead 4th Quarter comebacks however the Bills just fired their coach for having such a poor defense. How many teams win games when their opponent scores 30+? In the middle of this year a stat came out that Ryan coached teams are 9-48 when the opposition scores 22+. In game situations involve so much more than just what is happening right then and there. They are an accumulation of all events to that point. So you can't discount "50tds in the first half" sometimes you have to ask why should they be required to score 51.

 

 

Anybody who doesn't think the defense was bad isn't worth talking to. They were bad.

 

And in the passing game, Tyrod was below average, and not just in total yards or yards per attempt or passer rating. He just wasn't getting it done.

 

As for the Seattle game you mention above, I just went back to watch that last drive again on the All-22 and saw again that play where Tyrod broke loose from a clear pocket and ran for an eight yard gain ... with a Bills receiver in the end zone with nobody within ten yards of him. The first-and-ten on the Seattle 23 with 1:17 left in the 4th quarter. The pain hit me all over again.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Thurman#1

[FireChan]

 

 

That may be true for some people.

 

But for plenty of others it's not what we're focused on. I'm one of those who goes on endlessly that wins and losses is a team stat and that you judge a QB by how well he plays QB, not by whether his field goal kicker misses or makes one or because the MLB on his team drops an easy pick-six.

 

And I simply think Alex Smith has a higher ceiling than Tyrod does. And that teams have figured Tyrod out. I'd take Alex Smith in a heartbeat, though I'm not thrilled about the age, and there are plenty of other guys I'd take over either. And after I had Smith (and certainly Tyrod too), I'd draft the next QB who reached me that I thought had a good chance to be made into a franchise QB. And probably the next after that as well.

 

 

Nicely put.

 

 

Anybody who doesn't think the defense was bad isn't worth talking to. They were bad.

 

And in the passing game, Tyrod was below average, and not just in total yards or yards per attempt or passer rating. He just wasn't getting it done.

 

As for the Seattle game you mention above, I just went back to watch that last drive again on the All-22 and saw again that play where Tyrod broke loose from a clear pocket and ran for an eight yard gain ... with a Bills receiver in the end zone with nobody within ten yards of him. The first-and-ten on the Seattle 23 with 1:17 left in the 4th quarter. The pain hit me all over again.

The bottom line is that with the #1 rushing attack in the NFL, TT looked like nothing special

 

On a per pass basis, he was below average in TD's, yards, adjusted yards, yards per completion, passer rating, net yards per attempt, adjusted net yards per attempt and sack percentage. The only stat, per pass, that TT was above average at was INT's.

 

Hell, the guy had the 25th most attempts in the NFL and still led the league in sacks playing only 15 games!

 

How many of the guys in front of TT would do infinitely better in those stats above with the #1 running game in the NFL? I'd say about 20 QB's in the league would. And that's why I wouldn't pay him.

Edited February 24, 2017 by FireChan

[ko12010]

 

 

That may be true for some people.

 

But for plenty of others it's not what we're focused on. I'm one of those who goes on endlessly that wins and losses is a team stat and that you judge a QB by how well he plays QB, not by whether his field goal kicker misses or makes one or because the MLB on his team drops an easy pick-six.

 

And I simply think Alex Smith has a higher ceiling than Tyrod does. And that teams have figured Tyrod out. I'd take Alex Smith in a heartbeat, though I'm not thrilled about the age, and there are plenty of other guys I'd take over either. And after I had Smith (and certainly Tyrod too), I'd draft the next QB who reached me that I thought had a good chance to be made into a franchise QB. And probably the next after that as well.

 

 

Nicely put.

 

 

Anybody who doesn't think the defense was bad isn't worth talking to. They were bad.

 

And in the passing game, Tyrod was below average, and not just in total yards or yards per attempt or passer rating. He just wasn't getting it done.

 

As for the Seattle game you mention above, I just went back to watch that last drive again on the All-22 and saw again that play where Tyrod broke loose from a clear pocket and ran for an eight yard gain ... with a Bills receiver in the end zone with nobody within ten yards of him. The first-and-ten on the Seattle 23 with 1:17 left in the 4th quarter. The pain hit me all over again.

This is a good take. What surprises me is how many people don't think a player like Tyrod can improve with things like this. By committing to a player with so much natural ability like TT, allowing him to continue gaining game experience, maybe next year during week 8 he sees that WR and makes the TD throw instead of just settling for the 8 yard run. He really hasn't played that much. As lame as the Dolphins have been, they deserve credit for sticking with Tannehill.

 

Tyrod has shown improvement--people just aren't satisfied that it wasn't a massive leap forward into superstar QB status. That's usually not how people improve at anything, let alone the hardest position in all of sports.

 

I truly believe TT is the next Brees. I don't think he'll ever be a prolific passer like Drew, but depending on our system and approach going forward here, he won't have to be.

 

And I don't care what the well known group of QB 'experts' think. I know what I've seen from TT, esp compared to every other QB we've had under center since Kelly, and TT deserves more time to develop.

[Fan in Chicago]

So would I at cost neutral or near to. The only reason this is a debate is that Smith has no dead money if you have him for 2017 then move on whereas Tyrod has enough to stop that being an option.

 

Cost becomes the consideration if one really believes they are performance-neutral. However, two off-seasons in a row now, many fans really forget how they felt after many games where TT routinely missed receivers, bailed out of clean pockets, took sacks or was unable to comeback to win the game. He also has major hot and cold streaks where some quarters and halfs he near about disappears. The stats will average out the hot and cold parts to show a decent stat line but that hurts the flow of the game. We need consistency throughout the game as well.

But the performance neutral argument also works as Smith will likely come cheaper. TT under his current contract is a bad decision IMHO if Smith is available.

 

Because he hasn't done anything like that since that lone playoff game you cite from 4 years ago. It's not representative of his current playoff performance.

 

I didn't think it was odd way to make this point.

But at least he has reached the playoffs multiple times. No one is advocating Smith as the savior or a franchise QB. I just happen to think that he is the better bridge QB than TT.

I would hate to spend the 2017 season with an improved D and getting nudged out once more due to the O unable to pull off close games.