Deranged Rhino Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 18 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said: Again, why did Russia put in the effort? That's what nation states do. They meddle in one another's affairs. Russia has meddled, or attempted to meddle, in every US election this century and scores of them in the last century. This is nothing new. It was never a "threat" or "hysteria" until the USIC and DNC decided it would provide a nice narrative to sell their coup attempts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said: Did you ever ask yourselves why Russia put effort into trying to impact the election? I would suggest that they did it to affect 'fence sitter' votes and to add to the divisive atmosphere. How many minds got changed is unknowable but to say there were none is not a realistic assumption. So were there multiple factions of Russians that helped both sides (Hillary and Donald)? We know that there were Russian contributions to the Trump Dossier. Possibly another faction was pro-Trump and they did what? Which faction changed the minds of more voters? Seems like the Dossier was much bigger news around election time. Edited February 13, 2018 by keepthefaith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 33 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said: I don't think those are equal assumptions at all. Very easy for me to say there was at least one, far easier than estimating impact. As I said, I think actual numbers are unknowable. How many 'fence sitters' were there? I would say, not a vast amount as most were in their camp by election day, but in those close states maybe there was an impact. Again, why did Russia put in the effort? Nyet comrade I don't know enough Russian so I am going to write the rest in English. Don't feel compelled to respond to my posts. You should ask Russia that. Why weren't you concerned when Russian bots were supporting Bernie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, keepthefaith said: So were there multiple factions of Russians that helped both sides (Hillary and Donald)? We know that there were Russian contributions to the Trump Dossier. Possibly another faction was pro-Trump and they did what? Which faction changed the minds of more voters? Seems like the Dossier was much bigger news around election time. You quoted me so I will reply but otherwise, I would not have. From what I have seen/read, there seems there was some level of help to both camps though most that I hve seen concluded that the Russians favored Trump overall. My recollection of the events unfolding near the election is far from perfect but to me it seemed the discussions at the time were Abedin/Hillary/emails more so than dossier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said: You quoted me so I will reply but otherwise, I would not have. From what I have seen/read, there seems there was some level of help to both camps though most that I hve seen concluded that the Russians favored Trump overall. My recollection of the events unfolding near the election is far from perfect but to me it seemed the discussions at the time were Abedin/Hillary/emails more so than dossier. Russia wants things that benefit Russia. The thing that benefits Russia the most is Americans losing confidence in their government, and questioning the legitimacy of their elections. This leads to a power vacuum which Russia is eager to fill. (Which is a major reason, by the way, for the "behind the curtain" rollout of charges that will be coming against a prior Administration, in order that citizens retain faith in their government as legitimate.) Russia would much prefer a world in which they enjoyed global leadership to the benefit of their interests, ideals, and prosperity; as opposed to a world in which America leads. Edited February 13, 2018 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 15 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: Russia wants things that benefit Russia. The thing that benefits Russia the most is Americans losing confidence in their government, and questioning the legitimacy of their elections. This leads to a power vacuum which Russia is eager to fill. (Which is a major reason, by the way, for the "behind the curtain" rollout of charges that will be coming against a prior Administration, in order that citizens retain faith in their government as legitimate.) Russia would much prefer a world in which they enjoyed global leadership to the benefit of their interests, ideals, and prosperity; as opposed to a world in which America leads. duh.... sorta.... but how would Russia achieve this? they have no military powers or threat of use of weapons to conquer land as they used to, they aren't ruled by an ideology that drives the conquering of land and other peoples as they used to... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, row_33 said: duh.... sorta.... but how would Russia achieve this? they have no military powers or threat of use of weapons to conquer land as they used to, they aren't ruled by an ideology that drives the conquering of land and other peoples as they used to... Oh, good. Glad to hear that now that your country has taken Crimea, eastern parts of the Ukraine, and shouldn't Georgia be in there somewhere too? Glad you guys are done taking land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Bob in Mich said: Did you ever ask yourselves why Russia put effort into trying to impact the election? I would suggest that they did it to affect 'fence sitter' votes and to add to the divisive atmosphere. How many minds got changed is unknowable but to say there were none is not a realistic assumption. Actually, Frontline (never to be confused as conservative propaganda) had a two part piece called "Putin's Revenge". It is in podcast format. That'll answer your motivation question for you -- it was mainly done as ... go listen to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said: Oh, good. Glad to hear that now that your country has taken Crimea, eastern parts of the Ukraine, and shouldn't Georgia be in there somewhere too? Glad you guys are done taking land. Russia moved on Georgia? Link please? you realize they left Georgia after it was over.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, row_33 said: Russia moved on Georgia? Link please? I will admit to not recollecting many details of the confrontation. If that confrontation does not belong in that list, remove it. Though, there is this older story. Again though, if it doesn't belong there, my bad. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1043236/Georgia-overrun-Russian-troops-scale-ground-invasion-begins.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 35 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said: Oh, good. Glad to hear that now that your country has taken Crimea, eastern parts of the Ukraine, and shouldn't Georgia be in there somewhere too? Glad you guys are done taking land. Damn warmongering Canadians! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 So after all this time...do we have any answers for how Russia influenced the election beyond "trolling Facebook?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 (edited) In this witch hunt, the witch has lost its broom. Time to get off this witch hunt and move on to the REAL guilty ones, starting with Obozo and Killary. Edited February 13, 2018 by njbuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 fake accusations are a lot more fun than writing and passing legislation that could help people that really need help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, row_33 said: fake accusations are a lot more fun than writing and passing legislation that could help people that really need help This Russian thing is a total joke and it takes away from the REAL issues that need to get done in this country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, njbuff said: This Russian thing is a total joke and it takes away from the REAL issues that need to get done in this country. Russia has been a bugbear of endless fake headlines for about 100 years now i refuse to dismiss the concerns about Russia/USSR from around 1945 to 1991 as merit-less, but maybe that was our conditioning by the media all those years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 11 minutes ago, njbuff said: This Russian thing is a total joke and it takes away from the REAL issues that need to get done in this country. Take a moment and imagine how the events go after the Mueller investigation is aborted in some manner. There is a large portion of the country that wants the investigation. Do you think they are just gonna say, 'oh well, guess we'll never know now' ? There would be another investigation I would think. The admin is not going to be clear of this issue if Mueller's investigation is halted before Mueller says he has finished. I would rather not have so much invested in a Republican investigator appointed by Republicans but it is currently the best hope for a non-partisan answer. Consider if these investigators were all dems appointed by dems. My God, Hannity would be standing on his desk every broadcast and some here would be dead of a stroke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Consider if MSNBC, CNN, NYT, WaPO and Politico spent month detailing how Trump was abusing the FISA courts and surveillance state to spy on democratic opponents in the upcoming midterms... My God, Bob in Michigan would be standing on his weed stash screaming to the world about... well, Russia, I'm sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Consider if MSNBC, CNN, NYT, WaPO and Politico spent month detailing how Trump was abusing the FISA courts You even speak like Russian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Just now, garybusey said: You even speak like Russian. You're still around? Did your balls grow back or are you still afraid to answer direct questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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