BADOLBILZ Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 When we look back at the group of teams that have "tanked" for QBs, none of them have become a consistent force. Starting at 2009: Lions, Rams, Panthers, Colts, Bucs, Titans... You're looking at a combined 1 Super Bowl and 2 championship games. Too soon to tell on the Bucs and Titans maybe, but still. Gotta be more to it than just the QBs they picked. So I can agree with this assessment. The main reason that people want to think that tanking is the answer...............is the need to somehow explain/justify WHY the Bills have never risen out of mediocrity. It's not the reason. The facts simply don't support that tanking is the answer to long term success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 The point is, Marrone knew we were putting the full court press on getting Orton signed from the moment the Cowboys released him, which was before camp opened for us so the idea that Marrone was pissed about getting EJ rammed down his throat rings hollow. Orton played the Cowboys like a fine violin in orchestrating his release and making it possible to cash in one last time. Smart man. No one had an interest in Orton other than us. He wasn't even working out in the offseason, an essential task for being prepared for the upcoming season. When the Cowboys released him it wasn't a loss that they were worried about. He was a pedestrian backup at best. Marrone saw and so did every one else, except for maybe Whaley, that EJ was not a credible qb. Why do you think that Marrone was so furious with Whaley? Who else was on the qb depth chart before the physically unprepared Orton was finally brought in. Time was running short before an outside qb could be integrated into the offense. Marrone was a tough person to deal with. He was insufferably arrogant and was an inauthentic tough guy. His tough veneer was an act because he was very insecure and couldn't handle criticism very well. A bad fault for a person in his profession. However, as distasteful as he was as a person he was right in not taking kindly to the qb situation placed before him. That was the GM's job. And he faltered on that issue. Let's face it even bringing in an out of shape pedestrian backup qb whose primary motivation was to secure his last big payday was not the best situation for any coach to be in, especially for a first time head coach who was already working with a limited roster. The bottom line is any way you look at the qb situation that Whaley put Marrone in was a bad situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Man, I still can't stand Marrone. For whatever reason I was able to psychoanalyze that schmo on Day 1, I just nailed it. So glad he walked. Whaley just isn't very good at his job and seems to be flailing a bit which is adding to the dysfunction at OBD. Rex is a clown but he saw that much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtDart Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 lol. If true Whaleys a !@#$ing idiot😂😂..... no surprise though considering he went into a season with EJ, Thad Lewis, and Jeff Turl as his starting QBs. And then Tie Rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) No one had an interest in Orton other than us. He wasn't even working out in the offseason, an essential task for being prepared for the upcoming season. When the Cowboys released him it wasn't a loss that they were worried about. He was a pedestrian backup at best. Marrone saw and so did every one else, except for maybe Whaley, that EJ was not a credible qb. Why do you think that Marrone was so furious with Whaley? Who else was on the qb depth chart before the physically unprepared Orton was finally brought in. Time was running short before an outside qb could be integrated into the offense. Marrone was a tough person to deal with. He was insufferably arrogant and was an inauthentic tough guy. His tough veneer was an act because he was very insecure and couldn't handle criticism very well. A bad fault for a person in his profession. However, as distasteful as he was as a person he was right in not taking kindly to the qb situation placed before him. That was the GM's job. And he faltered on that issue. Let's face it even bringing in an out of shape pedestrian backup qb whose primary motivation was to secure his last big payday was not the best situation for any coach to be in, especially for a first time head coach who was already working with a limited roster. The bottom line is any way you look at the qb situation that Whaley put Marrone in was a bad situation. I told you why Marrone was furious with Whaley; it was taking too long to sign Orton, who was the best option available especially given the time constraints with camp just starting. I think everyone can agree that Marrone didn't have the best QB situation to say the least but he was OK with drafting Manuel when he was hired in '13. Edited February 14, 2017 by K-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Orton has a nice little pile of cash to sit on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 The main reason that people want to think that tanking is the answer...............is the need to somehow explain/justify WHY the Bills have never risen out of mediocrity. It's not the reason. The facts simply don't support that tanking is the answer to long term success. Exactly. "Tanking" in the NFL makes no sense. I think too many Bills fans have trouble differentiating football from hockey. How do you "tank" ?. The idea of tanking this year would be to get Darnold. How do you guarantee the number one pick? We could "tank" and end up missing out anyway. Plus NFL QBs aren't as sure things as basketball or hockey number ones. You also still need to build a team. How is the Sabres tank working out so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 I heard that Whaley sucks the blood of young virgin boys. ~source as good as Vic's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 For several reasons tank jobs are much less lucrative in the NFL. It doesn't really pay to do it........and the best organizations in the NFL of the past 2 decades didn't tank to get to that level. You just need way too many guys on a football team...not like hockey where (*theoretically* at least) build around just a few stars to create a couple of dominant lines, and presto...you're in the hunt! i have to laugh at the people who say Cleveland is in such great shape. they turned themselves into an expansion team on purpose...but how many expansion teams become any good within 5 years of entering the league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 they went 7-8 with Taylor. why is there even a debate that he should go. Is there a downside to going 4-12 instead of 7-9 ? I don't see one. On the other hand could Jones be better then Taylor ? Of course . Not to mention if Gilmore and Taylor walk the Bills have a ton of cap room. While this is a week year for elite talent. The Money could be put to use to resign Z Brown, Alexnder, and the Restricted free agents. There also would be money to buy competent players to fill needs at Safety , corner and Wide out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) This logic is awful. They went 7-8 with Tyrod. Did the bad defense and defensive coaching have anything to do with that or was that his fault too? You want to use all the cap room if Tyrod(a QB) and Gilmore(a CB), two players that play SIGNFICANT positions measured in success of a team to sign some veteran FA role players? Brilliant. Keep the posts coming! It's not hard to imagine that if Bill Belichick left the Patriots and took over the head coaching and GM duties of the Bills, he would not pick up Taylor's option and he would not sign Gilmore to a top five CB contract. Edited February 14, 2017 by 1billsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 It's not hard to imagine that if Bill Belichick left the Patriots and took over the head coaching and GM duties of the Bills, he would not pick up Taylor's option and he would not sign Gilmore to a top five CB contract. I'm not convinced that he'd make the same moves on a team that lacks an elite QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) The main reason that people want to think that tanking is the answer...............is the need to somehow explain/justify WHY the Bills have never risen out of mediocrity. It's not the reason. The facts simply don't support that tanking is the answer to long term success. You're arguing against the weakest version of the opposition to Tyrod. Many of the people arguing against Tyrod are doing so because they already see a losing team whether we pay him 30 million or not. We were already a losing team last year and there is no reason to believe spending more of the salary cap for that same QB while HURTING other positions will improve that record. Edited February 14, 2017 by jeffismagic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianFan Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 I told you why Marrone was furious with Whaley; it was taking too long to sign Orton, who was the best option available especially given the time constraints with camp just starting. I think everyone can agree that Marrone didn't have the best QB situation to say the least but he was OK with drafting Manuel when he was hired in '13. I recall this situation well. Orton at that point was a vet mulling retirement, and didn't want to spend the summer in camp. So he waited till last possible minute to sign. I'm betting he didn't even want to start for the Bills, just wanted to be the vet backup to a young QB to teach so to speak. After that season of having to be the answer, what did he do? What he wanted to all along, get out of football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 I'm not convinced that he'd make the same moves on a team that lacks an elite QB. No way would Belichick move forward with a running QB who can't pass the ball in the middle of the field, and seemingly misses open receivers with regularity. If you can't get the job done then you're gone, no matter how good of a guy or teammate you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianFan Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 No one had an interest in Orton other than us. He wasn't even working out in the offseason, an essential task for being prepared for the upcoming season. When the Cowboys released him it wasn't a loss that they were worried about. He was a pedestrian backup at best. Marrone saw and so did every one else, except for maybe Whaley, that EJ was not a credible qb. Why do you think that Marrone was so furious with Whaley? Who else was on the qb depth chart before the physically unprepared Orton was finally brought in. Time was running short before an outside qb could be integrated into the offense. Marrone was a tough person to deal with. He was insufferably arrogant and was an inauthentic tough guy. His tough veneer was an act because he was very insecure and couldn't handle criticism very well. A bad fault for a person in his profession. However, as distasteful as he was as a person he was right in not taking kindly to the qb situation placed before him. That was the GM's job. And he faltered on that issue. Let's face it even bringing in an out of shape pedestrian backup qb whose primary motivation was to secure his last big payday was not the best situation for any coach to be in, especially for a first time head coach who was already working with a limited roster. The bottom line is any way you look at the qb situation that Whaley put Marrone in was a bad situation. Your logic doesn't hold. nobody has an ideal roster and Bills certainly didn't given the decades of senile ownership and inept management. You can't overhaul a roster in one season. Marrone has to do the best with what he's given. Just like ANYONE. If Marrone is expecting the best personnel in every position including the most difficult position in football which your argument suggests then he's a fakkin princess expecting a unicorn for every birthday and shouldn't be an NFL coach highly paid to find solutions like every other coach is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 No way would Belichick move forward with a running QB who can't pass the ball in the middle of the field, and seemingly misses open receivers with regularity. If you can't get the job done then you're gone, no matter how good of a guy or teammate you are. Correct. Belichick would never pay a QB that can't make all the throws 30 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Not to mention if Gilmore and Taylor walk the Bills have a ton of cap room. Gilmore is a UFA. He is not under contract so he currently does not count against this years cap. It's not hard to imagine that if Bill Belichick left the Patriots and took over the head coaching and GM duties of the Bills, he would not pick up Taylor's option and he would not sign Gilmore to a top five CB contract. Fantastic point! Taylor? I'm not so sure but in my very strong opinion he would NEVER give Gilmore a huge contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Fantastic point! Taylor? I'm not so sure but in my very strong opinion he would NEVER give Gilmore a huge contract. He would let both walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bocephuz Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 When all is said and done, the Bills could very well determine their best move is to swallow hard and stroke the check for Taylor. Otherwise, they might be inclined to follow through with a plan that is thought to be appealing to at least one member of their hierarchy, General Manager Doug Whaley, and that is going with Cardale Jones as the starter. http://buffalonews.com/2017/02/10/bills-quarterback-options-beyond-taylor-look-slim/ "thought to be appealing" "thought to be appealing" doesn't sound very definitive to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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