If we keep Tyrod...

[BADOLBILZ]

 

 

 

"Huh? Are implying Shaq a failure now? Really? Considering he missed most the offseason, all of camp and nearly half the regular season...I would say he looked pretty promising and I am excited about him going into next year. "

 

 

 

 

My take on Shaq on draft day was that it was an uninspired pick and that he had blatant limitations as a pass rusher that put his ceiling somewhere between Courtney Upshaw and a less athletic Melvin Ingram.

 

That's not what you are looking for in the first round.........Upshaw is a bust and Ingram took most of his contract to develop and the Chargers have a tough decision whether to pay him or not because he's not a special player.

 

And THAT is what you end up with when you are reaching for need.

 

I'm not sure what games you were watching but Shaq showed very little promise and the same poor get-off and difficulty disengaging from tackles.

 

The draft that was supposed to yield 2 immediate starters by drafting for need............yielded no starters and only 3 part time contributors(Shaq, Adolphus and Seymour)........and now we are talking on this site about drafting ANOTHER best-ever Alabama ILB because Ragnuts might not be quick enough in this system........when defenses play nickel or dime like 70% of the defensive snaps!

 

As I've said many times.........free agency is where you fill immediate needs......NOT the draft.

 

The draft should be an ongoing process of building up roster quality.......early rounds should be directed toward getting the kind of difference makers that never make it to FA.

 

Edited January 29, 2017 by #BADOL

[BuffaLoko]

People forget about Cardale Jones. He's your developmental QB with big upside. This is why I hate this notion of drafting QBs every year. We treat them like toys from last Christmas. Want them so bad, then want a new toy next year.

LOL

[hondo in seattle]

People forget about Cardale Jones. He's your developmental QB with big upside. This is why I hate this notion of drafting QBs every year. We treat them like toys from last Christmas. Want them so bad, then want a new toy next year.

 

Depending on strength of class, I think we should draft a QB every other year. This would be an off year.

[TANK2]

Id take someone between round 2-5.

[Thurman#1]

If you keep him under this contract, you're essentially committing to him for a while. The average salary for keeping him one or two years under that contract are simply prohibiitive.

 

So I don't see them keeping him. Unless he restructures.

 

But if they do, I don't think they can draft another guy in the first or second. If they commit to Tyrod as a long-term answer - and that's what they'd be doing under that contract - it's better to try to build around him and get another guy in later rounds maybe, if there's someone they like.

 

But as I say, I can't imagine them deciding he's the long-term answer yet, not after last year. So my guess is they re-structure him to a contract that wouldn't prohibit him from being a bridge guy if that's what he continues to look like ... or let him go if he won't do that.

[ALF]

Whaley has his work cut out for him till the start of free agency.

 

Would like to keep Taylor as a bridge but then there is Gilmore , Woods, Z Brown, Alexander , A Williams (a ?)

[CSBill]

Whaley has his work cut out for him till the start of free agency.

 

Would like to keep Taylor as a bridge but then there is Gilmore , Woods, Z Brown, Alexander , A Williams (a ?)

 

If it's Tyrod and two of these, which two? . . . I would go with Woods and Z Brown. Alexander is getting up in years, and I think Brown is a better fit for the new D system, and Williams just needs to retire and go on with a new life

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Gilmore and Brown. No question.

^^^this

[CardinalScotts]

If the Bills keep Tyrod you can stop talking about QB's. The Bills said they would only pick up option if he is the long term answer.

 

Expect only occasional stabs at guys after the third round.

things change such as options, picking up Tyrod and still drafting qb's high is the right move- doesn't have to be this year but if so that's fine too

 

If it's Tyrod and two of these, which two? . . . I would go with Woods and Z Brown. Alexander is getting up in years, and I think Brown is a better fit for the new D system, and Williams just needs to retire and go on with a new life

the problem with Williams retiring is he's our best player hands down either side of the ball. You do not get rid of guys like that unless your clueless

Edited January 29, 2017 by CardinalScotts

[RK_BillsFan]

I don't understand everyone's fascination with the kid from Clemson as a first round pick..... he doesn't look any better that TT. From what I've watched he doesn't have a good throw. I can't really place it but watching the ball, it just looks strange in the air.

 

We are/should/need to keep TT. Yes the contract sucks for this current year. However the next 3 years are really team friendly. Not to mention drafting a QB in a ****ty QB draft only hurts us in the long run because it doesn't actually solve that positions problem. We have way more pressing needs. Lets be entirely clear here. Our Offense was not the reason we did not make the play offs (see the Saints as pretty much mirrors of ourselves. They just throw it to score where as we run it). We NEEEEEEED Safety(s) Like have you seen the **** we've pulled off the street and suited up? We basically have nothing at the position.

 

Additional needs:

 

More Satey(s) - Decent ones on the market.

Kyle Williams heir or Adolphs back up

A BIG WR that is reliable (i'm all for Mike Williams with the 10th pick or trading down for one of the other large bodied, good hands WRs)

Right Side of the line - Not as bad as our Safety position but good lord it's not a good part of the team.

LB? - We got lucky that what was once a major weakness turned into a pretty decent squad, but can we actually keep the new guys here or will we need to draft/replace.

[1billsfan]

I don't understand everyone's fascination with the kid from Clemson as a first round pick..... he doesn't look any better that TT. From what I've watched he doesn't have a good throw. I can't really place it but watching the ball, it just looks strange in the air.

 

We are/should/need to keep TT. Yes the contract sucks for this current year. However the next 3 years are really team friendly. Not to mention drafting a QB in a ****ty QB draft only hurts us in the long run because it doesn't actually solve that positions problem. We have way more pressing needs. Lets be entirely clear here. Our Offense was not the reason we did not make the play offs (see the Saints as pretty much mirrors of ourselves. They just throw it to score where as we run it). We NEEEEEEED Safety(s) Like have you seen the **** we've pulled off the street and suited up? We basically have nothing at the position.

 

Additional needs:

 

More Satey(s) - Decent ones on the market.

Kyle Williams heir or Adolphs back up

A BIG WR that is reliable (i'm all for Mike Williams with the 10th pick or trading down for one of the other large bodied, good hands WRs)

Right Side of the line - Not as bad as our Safety position but good lord it's not a good part of the team.

LB? - We got lucky that what was once a major weakness turned into a pretty decent squad, but can we actually keep the new guys here or will we need to draft/replace.

 

The problem with Watson is also the core problem with Taylor. The NFL is not college football. You must have the ability to drop back, look over the entire field, and be able to spot an open receiver(s) if the first option is not open.

 

IMO, Watson and Taylor are QBs who have been programmed to run after the first option isn't there. It's college football, and it doesn't work in the NFL. Not only are you running a gimmicky offense, it's also an offense that's run to the detriment of your highly skilled receivers' development and the moral of the group. Once you establish this kind of offense for the long term, you won't ever be able to sign any free agent WR or TE to come that's any good. It would take five years to recover from going in this direction.

 

It's best the Bills move on from Taylor, don't draft Watson or any other QB within the first three rounds of a seemingly bad draft class of QB, then maybe try to trade for a QB like Hundley to compete with Jones. If that doesn't work, sign Foles or Hoyer to a cheap deal, have them play however many games it takes for Jones to be ready, see what Jones has, then if he's not the answer, look towards a much better QB class in the 2018 draft where they will probably have a shot at a true franchise QB prospect who can start right away in the 2018 season. IMO, this is the best route for this team to take.

Edited January 29, 2017 by 1billsfan

[Maury Ballstein]

I don't understand everyone's fascination with the kid from Clemson as a first round pick..... he doesn't look any better that TT. From what I've watched he doesn't have a good throw. I can't really place it but watching the ball, it just looks strange in the air.

 

We are/should/need to keep TT. Yes the contract sucks for this current year. However the next 3 years are really team friendly. Not to mention drafting a QB in a ****ty QB draft only hurts us in the long run because it doesn't actually solve that positions problem. We have way more pressing needs. Lets be entirely clear here. Our Offense was not the reason we did not make the play offs (see the Saints as pretty much mirrors of ourselves. They just throw it to score where as we run it). We NEEEEEEED Safety(s) Like have you seen the **** we've pulled off the street and suited up? We basically have nothing at the position.

 

Additional needs:

 

More Satey(s) - Decent ones on the market.

Kyle Williams heir or Adolphs back up

A BIG WR that is reliable (i'm all for Mike Williams with the 10th pick or trading down for one of the other large bodied, good hands WRs)

Right Side of the line - Not as bad as our Safety position but good lord it's not a good part of the team.

LB? - We got lucky that what was once a major weakness turned into a pretty decent squad, but can we actually keep the new guys here or will we need to draft/replace.

Watson throws the ball in a timely manner and knows how to throw guys open. TT does none of that.

[#34fan]

Little something for all the Trubiskitheads.

 

http://nflmocks.com/2017/01/13/mitch-trubisky-qb-north-carolina-2017-nfl-draft-scouting-report/

[Alphadawg7]

 

 

"Huh? Are implying Shaq a failure now? Really? Considering he missed most the offseason, all of camp and nearly half the regular season...I would say he looked pretty promising and I am excited about him going into next year. "

 

 

 

 

My take on Shaq on draft day was that it was an uninspired pick and that he had blatant limitations as a pass rusher that put his ceiling somewhere between Courtney Upshaw and a less athletic Melvin Ingram.

 

That's not what you are looking for in the first round.........Upshaw is a bust and Ingram took most of his contract to develop and the Chargers have a tough decision whether to pay him or not because he's not a special player.

 

And THAT is what you end up with when you are reaching for need.

 

I'm not sure what games you were watching but Shaq showed very little promise and the same poor get-off and difficulty disengaging from tackles.

 

The draft that was supposed to yield 2 immediate starters by drafting for need............yielded no starters and only 3 part time contributors(Shaq, Adolphus and Seymour)........and now we are talking on this site about drafting ANOTHER best-ever Alabama ILB because Ragnuts might not be quick enough in this system........when defenses play nickel or dime like 70% of the defensive snaps!

 

As I've said many times.........free agency is where you fill immediate needs......NOT the draft.

 

The draft should be an ongoing process of building up roster quality.......early rounds should be directed toward getting the kind of difference makers that never make it to FA.

 

 

Fair enough, I see and understand why you are not inspired by him considering your concerns obviously would still be there that you have from draft night since he didn't get a camp or full season to be ready to prove one way or the other. I on the hand share a different opinion for the same reasons essentially since I did like the pick on draft night so I have the same optimistic outlook on him as I did then considering he barely got on the field this year after missing all the offseason and large part of regular season before he could play.

 

I do disagree on your FA vs Draft philosophy though. I feel the draft is a much better way to build a real contending team than FA, and just look at Dan Snyder and the Skins for evidence of that. Here is why...

 

1. With FA, to get a major impact player you need to spend a lot of money and you only have so much money with the cap. Sure, you can pick up some quality players at a bargain, but the odds of those players being major difference makers are slim and those are the kinds of players that help fill out a roster and create depth and balance. I can't think of an example of when a team that was building its way up did so mostly through key FA signings.

 

2. With the draft, you have opportunities to bring in major impact players with a low Cap price tag. If you hit on a player in the draft, that cost in those early years is low than if you had bought an equal player at that level in FA. For instance, look at Mack in Oakland...he is Elite and would command a monster contract if he was a FA this year. But he is not, and Oakland as a young team can continue to build around him and that roster through both the draft and FA. And by not being over extended on massive contracts (often over paid ones) from FA signings, the teams have a better chance to retain those players before they leave in FA and sometimes at a discount if they want to stay with that team or the team locked them up earlier.

 

3. You have to use the draft picks on someone...so I honestly don't understand why you would say using that draft pick on a need is a mistake. If we don't use that pick on a need, then what should we use that pick on? A player that isn't a need on the team? I really don't follow you comment about that above.

 

Now, if you are a team that is very close and maybe a player or two away, then I would agree with you that finding that player in FA is a strong way to go to fill that position because you know exactly what you are getting and that player obviously can contribute right away without question (barring injury). But in relation to the Bills, I can't remember any off season where we went in thinking we were just a player or two away. Even the last couple years, where our overall roster is considered stronger than its been in a long time, we still had multiple needs on this team entering the offseason.

[JohnC]

Little something for all the Trubiskitheads.

 

http://nflmocks.com/2017/01/13/mitch-trubisky-qb-north-carolina-2017-nfl-draft-scouting-report/

He's not a player who is going to be ready in his first year. None of the qbs in this draft and almost all drafts fall in that category. He has all the tools, physical and mental makeup, that if developed properly should be a good franchise qb. For a franchise that hasn't had a qualified franchise qb in twenty years I would say that his selection should make people very happy, except for those who are more enamored with the DB crop.

[1billsfan]

He's not a player who is going to be ready in his first year. None of the qbs in this draft and almost all drafts fall in that category. He has all the tools, physical and mental makeup, that if developed properly should be a good franchise qb. For a franchise that hasn't had a qualified franchise qb in twenty years I would say that his selection should make people very happy, except for those who are more enamored with the DB crop.

 

"Good" as in what level of a current franchise NFL qb? If that's Andy Dalton then you for sure take a pass and wait till the 2018 draft. The next 10 years this franchise qb will have to be able to beat the likes of a Carr, Luck and Mariota in the AFC. Good isn't going to be good enough.

[purple haze]

Getting to like the idea of moving back in the 1st & getting another 2nd which we can then use on a QB. Having said that though, I like Tyrod a lot & think that he can still improve. Still need to draft one just in case he regresses.

Agree with your strategy. If they can trade down and pick up an extra 2nd or even a 3rd that would work. Depending on how FA goes, look at WR, S, RT, and a QB to put into the development line with Cardale. If both develop they have an asset to get more picks/players. If Tyrod shows well, we have two assets.

 

But unlike many on the board, I would rather they get a WR in FA if they let Gilmore walk and draft Rueben Foster, if he's available, after a trade down. McDermott could use him to dominate.

Edited January 29, 2017 by purple haze

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Fair enough, I see and understand why you are not inspired by him considering your concerns obviously would still be there that you have from draft night since he didn't get a camp or full season to be ready to prove one way or the other. I on the hand share a different opinion for the same reasons essentially since I did like the pick on draft night so I have the same optimistic outlook on him as I did then considering he barely got on the field this year after missing all the offseason and large part of regular season before he could play.

 

I do disagree on your FA vs Draft philosophy though. I feel the draft is a much better way to build a real contending team than FA, and just look at Dan Snyder and the Skins for evidence of that. Here is why...

 

1. With FA, to get a major impact player you need to spend a lot of money and you only have so much money with the cap. Sure, you can pick up some quality players at a bargain, but the odds of those players being major difference makers are slim and those are the kinds of players that help fill out a roster and create depth and balance. I can't think of an example of when a team that was building its way up did so mostly through key FA signings.

 

2. With the draft, you have opportunities to bring in major impact players with a low Cap price tag. If you hit on a player in the draft, that cost in those early years is low than if you had bought an equal player at that level in FA. For instance, look at Mack in Oakland...he is Elite and would command a monster contract if he was a FA this year. But he is not, and Oakland as a young team can continue to build around him and that roster through both the draft and FA. And by not being over extended on massive contracts (often over paid ones) from FA signings, the teams have a better chance to retain those players before they leave in FA and sometimes at a discount if they want to stay with that team or the team locked them up earlier.

 

3. You have to use the draft picks on someone...so I honestly don't understand why you would say using that draft pick on a need is a mistake. If we don't use that pick on a need, then what should we use that pick on? A player that isn't a need on the team? I really don't follow you comment about that above.

 

Now, if you are a team that is very close and maybe a player or two away, then I would agree with you that finding that player in FA is a strong way to go to fill that position because you know exactly what you are getting and that player obviously can contribute right away without question (barring injury). But in relation to the Bills, I can't remember any off season where we went in thinking we were just a player or two away. Even the last couple years, where our overall roster is considered stronger than its been in a long time, we still had multiple needs on this team entering the offseason.

 

 

I didn't say anything about building a team with free agents.......I'm talking about filling holes.

 

An elite, difference-making QB, elite pass rushers, playmaking pass catchers, CB's and franchise LT's.......FRANCHISE BUILDING BLOCKS .......will cost you $15M-$30M per year in free agency.......IF THERE EVEN ARE ANY AVAILABLE AND YOU CAN OUTBID FOR THEM..........and they are probably only there if they are older or have other issues.

 

You can't afford to be needy at those positions so those should be your primary roster building blocks and your focus in the draft.

 

Trying to use the draft to fill needs is broadly fruitless.

 

New needs are CONSTANTLY emerging.

 

And rarely does it work out like you planned.....most fans put their mock drafts together thinking that the team might get 4-5 very good, early-career starters out of a 7 round draft and statistically that is a near pipe dream.

 

Positions like interior OL, LB and safety are generally stocked decently and cheaply in free agency...........FOR A REASON.......because when those guys play well and hit free agency teams choose to save their money for the players at more important positions.

 

So ask yourself..........why draft a safety like Jairus Byrd or Andy Levitre FOR NEED in round 2.....if you know you aren't going to be willing to pay them if they play well when they reach the end of their rookie deals?

 

Let some other organization be the farm system for less valued positions.

 

Drafting for need is a key reason why at any given time over the past 17 years the Bills have only had 3-5 of their own original first round picks on the roster at any given time.

 

Honestly.......how do you expect to keep NEEDS filled with early round picks if you have 22 positions and only 5-8 of those are filled with your original first or second round picks?

 

The answer is that YOU CAN'T and it's the dirty little secret that the people who make money pimping the draft don't want to say aloud............it's not that it's a crapshoot it's that you actually know that most of even a good draft is going to be busts, short-lived backups and special teamers and if they just turn out to be average starters at less important positions they will be made available in FA.

 

So GET YOUR DIFFERENCE MAKERS AT KEY POSITIONS WHEN YOU CAN on draft day.......draft them early and often but don't reach over better players at equally key positions and keep ceilings in mind.

 

Don't waste your time squinting and turning your head at the right angle to make seemingly "readier" low ceiling players like Shaq and Ragnuts seem like they are going to provide a greater impact than they are objectively capable of.

 

The only sustainable long term path to success in the NFL is having a great QB so getting that should always be objective one........but if you aren't going to go all in on getting one at least focus your draft on getting great players at the other KEY positions......not trying to draft serviceable players at every random position.

Edited January 30, 2017 by #BADOL

[OCinBuffalo]

[This is an automated response:

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OCinBot v.01]

[Big Gun]

 

 

 

 

We have a shot at an Elite WR prospect at 10 or an Elite S prospect. Personally, I prefer to go WR at #10 as the S position is considered very deep this year, but would not be upset by any means if we went Safety. Been a sore spot here for years.

 

 

So you want the Bills to have 2 elite WR and an inadequate QB that can't get them the ball.

 

Makes perfect sense!