1billsfan Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Since when is being HONEST about a player bashing? Seriously? Its undeniable the kid is not ready. Why are you even upset about that? And he did not lose his job over the drop back passer...he lost it because his passes were all over the place. The kid has mechanics issues and was very raw coming out of college. Sure, the kid can go on to have a great career, but the REALITY is the kid is NOT ready to play. Reality Check assuming we keep Tyrod: 1. The Bills are NOT going to go into a season without a READY backup QB with a guy like Tyrod who is exposed to more hits given his running ability. We paid dearly with that whole Kold debacle and only 2 rookies behind a QB made of glass forcing both rookies to play early, especially a raw UDFA in Tuel. 2. More than likely, the Bills will sign a vet to compete for or be the backup QB. 3. Teams don't generally keep more than 3 QB's, even when factoring in Practice Squad. So the Bills almost certainly are not going to just assume Cardale will be ready by camp. He more than likely will have to beat out a Vet, and may even need to beat out a rookie we draft this year. If he is competing against the Vet, it is more likely he wont be the backup entering week 1 unless he shows a huge improvement and decidedly beats out that vet. Therefore, that means he would be a PS player as we wont be carrying 3 active QB's on our roster. Now, if we do draft a rookie and sign a vet, that means Cardale is not only going to be fighting to be the backup QB, but if he loses that competition he will be fighting against the other rookie to even make our PS. So you can sit here and get pissed all you want, but the fact remains he isnt ready and the Bills are not going to ignore the QB position in both FA and the draft in some bold assumption he will ascend to NFL ready by week 1. I hope the kid becomes the next Tom Brady, so not sure why you think this is personal just because I am being honest of where he is at and what the Bills have to do to make sure we have a competent backup QB come week 1. You acted like you knew something and it wasn't just your opinion...LOL You have no clue about what Jones is or isn't going to do. One thing he has going for him is that he's a drop back QB with a big arm and that's what the NFL is about (see current playoff results). It's not about gimmicky "running QB" offenses like they have with Taylor. Whether it's with Jones or with some other QB, the Bills will not get back to having success longterm without a drop back QB with a big arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 My two cents... Keep TT and Jones, and draft a QB in the first 3 rounds. Not necessarily in the 1st, but depending on who is available when, and how much we like a guy, the Bills should be focused on getting someone relatively early. IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Fire Chan, Ryan L Blitz and Gugny will be fit for straight jackets. In all seriousness, I expect he will be back. The value has to meet the draft slot to make that decision and we still have a lot of work to do. After, the combine and workouts we will know whether any of these guys are worth the number 10 pick. I am all for taking a QB if it makes sense. Gosh i hope the Bills do not decide after these things on if they should take a QB in the top 10. To me if a QB is worthy of a top 10 pick it is due to his portfolio of work on the field. The work outs favor a QB that might not of been drafted or drafted late. These are the Qb's we watch being selected in the 3,4,or 5th rounds. To answer the question- If TT is back i think the Bills wait and try to find a value guy later in the draft or roll with Cardele and TT and find a Vet 'ham and egger' type later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Wouldn't it be logical that if you keep Taylor you use the draftbto rebuild your Defense and take the best available player on D in the first round, a WR in the second and then load up big time the rest of the way with D. Then go out and try find a good backup for Taylor in FA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 My two cents... Keep TT and Jones, and draft a QB in the first 3 rounds. Not necessarily in the 1st, but depending on who is available when, and how much we like a guy, the Bills should be focused on getting someone relatively early. IMO. I've come to the opinion of wanting them to stay away from QB until the fourth round because I don't like any of these QBs projected in the first three rounds. The ones that have a chance seem like 2 year projects and we already have one of those with Jones. IMO, it's better to use the top picks on bolstering the roster with good players, see what Cardale or the 2017 4th rd or later QB have (along with a cheap vet QB in the mix) and look towards the 2018 draft for using a #1 pick on a QB that's hopefully worthy of it. It's a risk to hold off a year, but I feel like they'd be burning a high pick on this year's QB class this year. From what I've read, the 2018 class will have better prospects and the Bills will probably be drafting higher than they are this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Gosh i hope the Bills do not decide after these things on if they should take a QB in the top 10. To me if a QB is worthy of a top 10 pick it is due to his portfolio of work on the field. The work outs favor a QB that might not of been drafted or drafted late. These are the Qb's we watch being selected in the 3,4,or 5th rounds. To answer the question- If TT is back i think the Bills wait and try to find a value guy later in the draft or roll with Cardele and TT and find a Vet 'ham and egger' type later. Was Russell Wilson a top ten ranked player? Was Derek Car a top ten ranked player? Was Bridgewater a top ten ranked plaer? Was Drew Brees a top ten ranked player? Was Aaron Rodgers a top ten ranked player? Was Prescott a top ten ranked player? A qb doesn't have to be a top ten ranked player to have a dramatic affect on your team. If you believe that you can select a good qb at a lower slot then trade down and get additional picks that can be useful to add to your roster. I'm all in favor in keeping TT. There isn't a good alternative to not doing so. My position is to identify a qb in this draft that you beleive can be developed into a franchise qb. If you don't believe there is one then don't make a wishful and wasteful pick. I believe that there are good qb prospects in this year's draft. Clearly, many think otherwise. The wait until next year approach means that opportunities we let go by are the same opportunities that other teams take advantage of. There is a term for passivity for teams that don't have a franchise qb on their roster. It's called "dereliction of duty". This team can use their first round pick to draft safeties and corners for the rest of its existence. Where will it get you? A ticket to the land of irrelevance. The same location where we have been at for the past generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Since when is being HONEST about a player bashing? Seriously? Its undeniable the kid is not ready. Why are you even upset about that? And he did not lose his job over the drop back passer...he lost it because his passes were all over the place. The kid has mechanics issues and was very raw coming out of college. Sure, the kid can go on to have a great career, but the REALITY is the kid is NOT ready to play. You are not bashing any player. Don't be hesitant or apologetic for giving your opinion. There is no doubt that Cardele Jones has intriguing physical skills. But when it comes to evaluating qbs for the NFL there is one skill set that usually doesn't change enough to match the stringent standard required for the NFL i.e. accuracy. In my view you either have it or not. Through coaching you can improve your mechanics but that doesn't automatically mean that you will ever attain the level of accuracy required to play in this league. If you are not sharply accurate or can't make anticipatory throws in college it is unlikely that you will in the pros where the windows are tighter and the speed of the game is much faster. It's not impossible but it is very improbable. That's why Cardale was taken in the fourth round, a low round for an improbable qb prospect.. Make no mistake on what I'm saying. If you are going to take a chance on a player then do it for a player who has some impressive tools. But let's not over estimate how ready or even capable he is to be a starter in this league. If you don't go to the window to buy a ticket at the track you will never get a hit. A long shot is better than no shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Definitely not in the first round, IMO. Don't want to miss out on the next Shaq Lawson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 I've come to the opinion of wanting them to stay away from QB until the fourth round because I don't like any of these QBs projected in the first three rounds. The ones that have a chance seem like 2 year projects and we already have one of those with Jones. IMO, it's better to use the top picks on bolstering the roster with good players, see what Cardale or the 2017 4th rd or later QB have (along with a cheap vet QB in the mix) and look towards the 2018 draft for using a #1 pick on a QB that's hopefully worthy of it. It's a risk to hold off a year, but I feel like they'd be burning a high pick on this year's QB class this year. From what I've read, the 2018 class will have better prospects and the Bills will probably be drafting higher than they are this year. Fair enough. But if you want to wait until 4th or later this year, then I'd rather go with a cheap vet backup until next year. Why waste the pick this year if you know you are going to focus on it next year? So with that said... is that cheap, 1-2yr contract, vet backup... EJ? Don't want to miss out on the next Shaq Lawson? Or Paxton Lynch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Or Paxton Lynch Are you already declaring Lynch a failure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Fair enough. But if you want to wait until 4th or later this year, then I'd rather go with a cheap vet backup until next year. Why waste the pick this year if you know you are going to focus on it next year? So with that said... is that cheap, 1-2yr contract, vet backup... EJ? Or Paxton Lynch FA to-be Stephon Gilmore was the ONLY original Bills first rounder on the roster to start more than 8 games in 2016.......and yet the team won 7 games and probably should have won 10.....(or 14, according to others, if former second rounder Aaron Williams hadn't been injured). Regarding the Lynch selection: The Bills only had 5 original first round picks on their roster this year........Gilmore, Dareus, EJ Manuel, Watkins and Shaq!........to show for the 17 year drought. Top QB's typically play upwards of 15-18 seasons nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Are you already declaring Lynch a failure? Quite the conclusion to leap to, unless you are already declaring Lawson a failure? No, I was not. Just laughing that Lynch (BADOL's preference for our 1st round pick) contributed even less than Lawson so far. Just some fun chop busting. FA to-be Stephon Gilmore was the ONLY original Bills first rounder on the roster to start more than 8 games in 2016.......and yet the team won 7 games and probably should have won 10.....(or 14, according to others, if former second rounder Aaron Williams hadn't been injured). Regarding the Lynch selection: The Bills only had 5 original first round picks on their roster this year........Gilmore, Dareus, EJ Manuel, Watkins and Shaq!........to show for the 17 year drought. Top QB's typically play upwards of 15-18 seasons nowadays. blahblahblah, neither have done squat so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Was Russell Wilson a top ten ranked player? Was Derek Car a top ten ranked player? Was Bridgewater a top ten ranked plaer? Was Drew Brees a top ten ranked player? Was Aaron Rodgers a top ten ranked player? Was Prescott a top ten ranked player? A qb doesn't have to be a top ten ranked player to have a dramatic affect on your team. If you believe that you can select a good qb at a lower slot then trade down and get additional picks that can be useful to add to your roster. I'm all in favor in keeping TT. There isn't a good alternative to not doing so. My position is to identify a qb in this draft that you beleive can be developed into a franchise qb. If you don't believe there is one then don't make a wishful and wasteful pick. I believe that there are good qb prospects in this year's draft. Clearly, many think otherwise. The wait until next year approach means that opportunities we let go by are the same opportunities that other teams take advantage of. There is a term for passivity for teams that don't have a franchise qb on their roster. It's called "dereliction of duty". This team can use their first round pick to draft safeties and corners for the rest of its existence. Where will it get you? A ticket to the land of irrelevance. The same location where we have been at for the past generation. You missed the point of my post, or i did not do a good job explaining myself. Post season work outs and combine workouts should not turn a quarter back into a top 10 draft pick. QB is one of the few positions on the football field where combine or work out numbers really do not matter a lot. Study tape, talk to people that know the prospect, and then talk to the player(which every team has already done on every QB in college that has any talent). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Quite the conclusion to leap to, unless you are already declaring Lawson a failure? No, I was not. Just laughing that Lynch (BADOL's preference for our 1st round pick) contributed even less than Lawson so far. Just some fun chop busting. blahblahblah, neither have done squat so far. You aren't busting my chops.......I appreciate the set ups! Guys like you and Jeff is a Tuel are like my hype men! Gives me an opportunity to illustrate points.......like how OVERRATED first round draft picks not used on QB's are. When you draft for need......you almost invariably just end up needy again next year. When you draft for greatest potential long term impact........you increase your chances of actually going to a place of sustained excellence. But by all means.......let's focus on getting a safety or OL to patch up them holes! That has worked great for the past 57 years that the Bills haven't drafted a single quarterback with their original first round pick. Putting off being "all-in" on the exponentially most important position is critical aspect of the Bills "long, rich tradition". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthymcnasty08 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Keep TT, Draft a STUD WR with pick 10, acquire/sign a veteran QB (Foles, Hoyer, Glennon, McCarron) and throw a late pick at Chad Kelly (give him a shot in his hometown) ...with Cardale, that makes 4 QB's in camp. Don't waste #10 on a Qb this year with the quality of Safety and WR coming out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Gosh i hope the Bills do not decide after these things on if they should take a QB in the top 10. To me if a QB is worthy of a top 10 pick it is due to his portfolio of work on the field. The work outs favor a QB that might not of been drafted or drafted late. These are the Qb's we watch being selected in the 3,4,or 5th rounds. To answer the question- If TT is back i think the Bills wait and try to find a value guy later in the draft or roll with Cardele and TT and find a Vet 'ham and egger' type later. I think it is called doing due diligence. I don't think your premise is entirely accurate. I haven't studied the issue, but by memory it seems like there is more movement than you say. You missed the point of my post, or i did not do a good job explaining myself. Post season work outs and combine workouts should not turn a quarter back into a top 10 draft pick. QB is one of the few positions on the football field where combine or work out numbers really do not matter a lot. Study tape, talk to people that know the prospect, and then talk to the player(which every team has already done on every QB in college that has any talent). I think guys move into and out of the top 10. Do they move from the 3-5 rounds to top 10-unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) I think it is called doing due diligence. I don't think your premise is entirely accurate. I haven't studied the issue, but by memory it seems like there is more movement than you say. I think guys move into and out of the top 10. Do they move from the 3-5 rounds to top 10-unlikely. It is rare(if ever) that a QB flies up draft boards due to the combine or private work outs. Can anyone think of an example? This is why you rarely see QB's that are seen as first round talent partaking in the combine. There is nothing to gain and every think to lose due to injury. Edited January 27, 2017 by atlbillsfan1975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 You missed the point of my post, or i did not do a good job explaining myself. Post season work outs and combine workouts should not turn a quarter back into a top 10 draft pick. QB is one of the few positions on the football field where combine or work out numbers really do not matter a lot. Study tape, talk to people that know the prospect, and then talk to the player(which every team has already done on every QB in college that has any talent). I agree with this post in toto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) You are not bashing any player. Don't be hesitant or apologetic for giving your opinion. There is no doubt that Cardele Jones has intriguing physical skills. But when it comes to evaluating qbs for the NFL there is one skill set that usually doesn't change enough to match the stringent standard required for the NFL i.e. accuracy. In my view you either have it or not. Through coaching you can improve your mechanics but that doesn't automatically mean that you will ever attain the level of accuracy required to play in this league. If you are not sharply accurate or can't make anticipatory throws in college it is unlikely that you will in the pros where the windows are tighter and the speed of the game is much faster. It's not impossible but it is very improbable. That's why Cardale was taken in the fourth round, a low round for an improbable qb prospect.. Make no mistake on what I'm saying. If you are going to take a chance on a player then do it for a player who has some impressive tools. But let's not over estimate how ready or even capable he is to be a starter in this league. If you don't go to the window to buy a ticket at the track you will never get a hit. A long shot is better than no shot. Thanks and yes, I fully agree with everything you just said. Keep TT, Draft a STUD WR with pick 10, acquire/sign a veteran QB (Foles, Hoyer, Glennon, McCarron) and throw a late pick at Chad Kelly (give him a shot in his hometown) ...with Cardale, that makes 4 QB's in camp. Don't waste #10 on a Qb this year with the quality of Safety and WR coming out. This times 1 million. My plan exactly. We have a shot at an Elite WR prospect at 10 or an Elite S prospect. Personally, I prefer to go WR at #10 as the S position is considered very deep this year, but would not be upset by any means if we went Safety. Been a sore spot here for years. Don't want to miss out on the next Shaq Lawson? Huh? Are implying Shaq a failure now? Really? Considering he missed most the offseason, all of camp and nearly half the regular season...I would say he looked pretty promising and I am excited about him going into next year. Edited January 28, 2017 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Unless they make a blockbuster trade, I expect the Bills to keep Tyrod and to sign a reliable, experienced back up who will not be competing for the starter role. If they keep Jones, I doubt they will draft a QB this year. There are more pressing needs this year. If they cut Cardale, then, yes, they likely draft another project QB, someone like Webb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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