Kelly the Dog Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I think the Rivers to Buffalo talk needs to stop, too. It's extremely unlikely. But the idea that he wouldn't do it because of his family seems a little ridiculous, too. Virtually every single player and coach talking about a buffalo when they leave say what a great place to raise a family, and what a great community it is. Word around the league is it's a great family place, one of the very best. No one really knows what Rivers considers important in the "family" sense outside of his religious views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Peyton Manning broke 3500 yards once? Dude. Yes, his senior year of college. Don't tase me , bro... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Please. There is ZERO chance of this actually happening. Let's let it die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Please. There is ZERO chance of this actually happening. Let's let it die. Rivers, Brees, Rodgers, etc.....TSW Offseason QB dreams die hard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 You should read my context post on the last page, especially considering your contextless 21 picks this year. Rivers has been in the league for 13(?) years and if that is right, he is averaging 12 INTs a season, take out his first two years and he averages 14 a season while averaging 28.5 passing TD's over that time and 313 career passing TD's as a starter, Tyrod has 37 passing in his career, for an average of 18.5, PR also has 5 playoff appearances to TT's 0 as a starter. Rivers = HOF QB Taylor = Marginal Starter No arguement, I was thinking the same thing about relative terms in this "arguement". My main agrument here - is he a hall of famer? 5 playoff appearances in 13 seasons. 4 wins. Never even been to a super bowl. Been in 1 AFC chamiponship. I dunno - I guess he'll be rewarded for Longevity - but in his era you have: Brady, Peyton, Eli, Big Ben, Rodgers, Brees... How many QBs from 1 era get into the hall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 My main agrument here - is he a hall of famer? 5 playoff appearances in 13 seasons. 4 wins. Never even been to a super bowl. Been in 1 AFC chamiponship. I dunno - I guess he'll be rewarded for Longevity - but in his era you have: Brady, Peyton, Eli, Big Ben, Rodgers, Brees... How many QBs from 1 era get into the hall? He's this era's Vinnie Testaverde, so, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I think Rivers is probably a hall of very good guy rather than a hall of famer but he is a nominee certainly. Tyrod won't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) If you think the Bills are 'the' QB away from competing for the division with New England and a potential conference championship game team next year then making a play for Rivers would make sense. I don't. I see this team with some potential cap issues needing upgrades at several positions which needs to come via the draft and free agency. Specifically on defense at LB and in the secondary. It might take 2 seasons to fix and adjust everything to the new systems that will be installed. Rivers, at 35, is at the age where you ordinarily see a big drop off in production. So maybe you get a year or two out of him but by the time the rest of the team is ready he's likely to become more of a liability than an asset at the QB position. So then you've likely given up some significant assets, either players or draft picks, to get Rivers but he's not elite anymore and you've depleted your future picks at the expense of a present that never pans out. The answer is finding a long-term QB solution through correctly evaluating draft prospects and putting yourself in the position to make the right pick at the right point in the draft. Whether that means staying put, or moving back, or moving up if needed. Unfortunately, the Bills track record at this is not good. My expectation is that the new blood in the coaching ranks with different eyes on the draft will show some better results in the 2017 draft. Edited January 17, 2017 by All_Pro_Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) You enjoy repeating that stat, yet for some reason you keep leaving out that he threw or 76 TDs the past 2 seasons as well. And that he threw for over 4500 yards. And his "accuracy" is a consistent 67%. I wonder why you keep leaving those out. Also, for some reason, you give no frame of reference. For instance, you don't mention, say, a guy like Aaron Rodgers, who in his last (only) 2 years never threw for more than 3000 yards, and amazed a whopping 43 TDs vs 13 ints and had a lower YPA than Watson. Or even a young fellow like Luck ("the Greatest Prospect of A Generation"), who cracked 3500 yards once in three seasons, and also took 3 seasons to get past 80 TDs passing (and had 18 INTS in his last 22 games---and the same career completion percentage as.......Watson!). And then of course there is Peyton Manning, who took 4 years to throw for 80 TDs, was a career 62% passer, broke 3500 yards once and.....threw for 23 INTS in his last 23 games. Stats are fun, no? LOL, really? Those are the stats you want to base his projection to the NFL on? First, I don't think you know much about the Clemson offense otherwise you would see that 30 INTs in an offense built on screens, bubble screens and short throws is very concerning. His comp %...come on, its deceptive considering what I just said about the offense and is further enhanced by WR's who can make up for less than accurate throws. Trent Edwards had a high comp % not because he was a good passer, but because his stats were padded by dump offs and short throws. And this is NOT my evaluation...this is why by MOST standards he is widely considered just the 3rd best QB prospect in this draft...mostly considered out of the top 15 overall prospects, and seen some less than 30th on list of overall prospects. This guy you are raving about could go anywhere from the top 10 to the 2nd round. And you know why I don't mention how many Touchdowns, because TD production in college is probably the single LEAST important stat to translating to the NFL. In fact, look at the top 10 all time TD passers in college and please find me one QB that has any value: 1 Case Keenum* 155 Houston 2 Kellen Moore* 142 Boise State 3 Graham Harrell* 134 Texas Tech 4 Colt Brennan* 131 Hawaii 4 tie Rakeem Cato* 131 Marshall 6 Landry Jones* 123 Oklahoma 7 Ty Detmer 121 Brigham Young 7 Tie Aaron Murray* 121 Georgia 9 Timmy Chang* 117 Hawaii 10 Matt Barkley* 116 Southern California How about passing yards all time...on Rivers at #10 proved to be good. 1 Case Keenum* 19217 Houston 2 Timmy Chang* 17072 Hawaii 3 Landry Jones* 16646 Oklahoma 4 Graham Harrell* 15793 Texas Tech 5 Ty Detmer 15031 Brigham Young 6 Kellen Moore* 14667 Boise State 7 Colt Brennan* 14193 Hawaii 8 Rakeem Cato* 14079 Marshall 9 Sean Mannion* 13600 Oregon State 10 Philip Rivers* 13484 North Carolina State The point is...you can look at what ever stats you want...it does NOT change the fact that he is NOT an accurate downfield thrower, and if he was he would be the #1 Prospect in this draft, but he is not even close to that, and he is widely not even considered the #1 player at his position. WHY...because he doesn't have great passing mechanics and struggles with accuracy down field and there are LEGIT question marks about his ability to develop as a PASSER in the NFL. Does it mean he will be a bust, absolutely not...but, he is far from a sure thing and his passing TD's and Yards don't erase his very relevant weaknesses as a passer. And considering the Bills already have a QB who is similar to how he projects, it makes even less sense. Edited January 17, 2017 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 My main agrument here - is he a hall of famer? 5 playoff appearances in 13 seasons. 4 wins. Never even been to a super bowl. Been in 1 AFC chamiponship. I dunno - I guess he'll be rewarded for Longevity - but in his era you have: Brady, Peyton, Eli, Big Ben, Rodgers, Brees... How many QBs from 1 era get into the hall? I dont think Rivers is a HOF QB. Add Matt Ryan to that list before Rivers since Matt Ryan will probably end up blowing him away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 LOL, really? Those are the stats you want to base his projection to the NFL on? First, I don't think you know much about the Clemson offense otherwise you would see that 30 INTs in an offense built on screens, bubble screens and short throws is very concerning. His comp %...come on, its deceptive considering what I just said about the offense and is further enhanced by WR's who can make up for less than accurate throws. Trent Edwards had a high comp % not because he was a good passer, but because his stats were padded by dump offs and short throws. . And you know why I don't mention how many Touchdowns, because TD production in college is probably the single LEAST important stat to translating to the NFL. In fact, look at the top 10 all time TD passers in college and please find me one QB that has any value: I gave several stats (I even left out YPA because I felt I was piling on you) to compare him to other more well regarding QBs coming out of college. Yet you give a single stat (INT) to hammer away at to prove he will struggle in the pros. unconvincing. Isn't NE's passing game based on screens and short passes? Maybe they can make use of him, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Why do people continue to say that the Chargers have no running game? Melvin Gordon and Danny Woodhead are good RB's. They have no running game b/c SD is a pass-first team for the most part, just like the Bills don't have a passing game b/c they're a run-first team. All those lovely passing stats, and San Diego, since the start of 2015, has scored less points than Buffalo: Buffalo: 778 points. SD: 730 points. But look at those passing yards, surely San Diego must be making it to the playoffs every year. 2010: 9-7 2011: 8-8 2012: 7-9 2013: 9-7 2014: 9-7 2015: 4-12 2016: 5-11 Super Bowl Melvin Gordon was terrible in 2015 and Woodhead has been IRed two years in a row, but please continue on like you know anything about the Chargers besides their record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 The best things the Chargers could do right now for that organization is trade Rivers. There has never been and never will be a better time for them to rebuild. Rivers is on the tail end of his career and they are not going anywhere in the next few years. 1. They will struggle to finish better than 3rd in that division, and likely will be last for the next 2 to 3 years with the Chiefs, Raiders, and Broncos in that division. Their roster is not very talented and its best talent that keep them competitive are at the end of their career, and some of the young talent like Allen (major injury concerns and questionable return to form) and Gordon (fumble city with that guy) on offense are not exactly poised to be built around. 2. They are displaced in a small stadium next 2 seasons, so selling tickets is less of a concern. 3. They are in a new market that is full of venom for the Chargers from being Raider country so long. The last thing they want to do is start the rebuild 3 years from now when they have entered the massive new stadium while "fighting" for a new fan base. 4. They are considering changing the team name after this season further increasing the reason they don't want to be just beginning the rebuild the year they start playing in the new stadium as they will resemble an expansion team. Trade Rivers now, you should get pretty good value from a contending team for him in draft assets. Focus on building the team up through the draft and FA the next couple of seasons with a goal to be an ascending team NOT a rebuilding team when they enter the new stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 The best things the Chargers could do right now for that organization is trade Rivers. There has never been and never will be a better time for them to rebuild. Rivers is on the tail end of his career and they are not going anywhere in the next few years. 1. They will struggle to finish better than 3rd in that division, and likely will be last for the next 2 to 3 years with the Chiefs, Raiders, and Broncos in that division. Their roster is not very talented and its best talent that keep them competitive are at the end of their career, and some of the young talent like Allen (major injury concerns and questionable return to form) and Gordon (fumble city with that guy) on offense are not exactly poised to be built around. 2. They are displaced in a small stadium next 2 seasons, so selling tickets is less of a concern. 3. They are in a new market that is full of venom for the Chargers from being Raider country so long. The last thing they want to do is start the rebuild 3 years from now when they have entered the massive new stadium while "fighting" for a new fan base. 4. They are considering changing the team name after this season further increasing the reason they don't want to be just beginning the rebuild the year they start playing in the new stadium as they will resemble an expansion team. Trade Rivers now, you should get pretty good value from a contending team for him in draft assets. Focus on building the team up through the draft and FA the next couple of seasons with a goal to be an ascending team NOT a rebuilding team when they enter the new stadium. They're moving to a new city and will do their best to win with Rivers to gain fan support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I gave several stats (I even left out YPA because I felt I was piling on you) to compare him to other more well regarding QBs coming out of college. Yet you give a single stat (INT) to hammer away at to prove he will struggle in the pros. unconvincing. Isn't NE's passing game based on screens and short passes? Maybe they can make use of him, no? Um, I just showed how little the stats you provided matter...the best ever in college in those categories were mostly wash outs in the NFL. And come on man, did you just really suggest building an offense around him throwing short screens and bubble screens? Any QB in the NFL can throw 5 yards...NONE of that changes he struggles throwing DOWNFIELD. You got an issue with that, then go argue with all the professional scouts who have the concerns about him, not me. And when you throw THIRTY interceptions in 2 seasons in a SHORT passing attack, that is a LOT more concerning than any excitement over a QB who has a good comp % in that offense. And furthermore, he has an ELITE WR in Mike Williams who can catch anything in his vicinity that help him down field when his passes are frequently off target...like the 3 times in the final minutes of the National Championship game where they lose if not for 3 insane catches by his WR's on poorly thrown balls. The funniest part about this is that you are arguing with me about what the general consensus is on Watson as if I am responsible for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I dont think Rivers is a HOF QB. Add Matt Ryan to that list before Rivers since Matt Ryan will probably end up blowing him away. You're crazy if you think he's not a hall of famer. When it's all said and done, he'll be top 10 in career passing yds. Probably top 7 in passing TDs, and top 10 in passing completions. Not a hall of fame QB? Give me whatever you're smoking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 He is talking college.Ahh that makes way more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 They're moving to a new city and will do their best to win with Rivers to gain fan support. The problem is Rivers wont help them here...Chargers #2 TE was getting booed out of the Arena during a Clippers game this week when they put his face on the jumbo tron and welcomed the Chargers to LA. And this is a Clippers game where the fans know what its like to be second fiddle in this town. And the Chargers are moving from 2 hours away...this fan base isnt just going to come running as they werent that far to begin with and most people in LA love going to San Diego as the city is awesome. So having an aging Rivers struggle to win 6 to 8 games each year will do them literally no favors. LA wont care about them at all. The best course of action is to start the rebuild NOW while they are playing in a small stadium and hope to be an ascending team the fans can get excited about in 2019 when they enter the big stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) You're crazy if you think he's not a hall of famer. When it's all said and done, he'll be top 10 in career passing yds. Probably top 7 in passing TDs, and top 10 in passing completions. Not a hall of fame QB? Give me whatever you're smoking... Philip Rivers is not a hall of fame QB- certainly not yet. Numbers are so inflated now, that means very little. Zero Super Bowl appearances trumps your numbers. He's less of a hall of famer than Jim Thome, who will take a while getting in. I'm not sure Rivers was ever considered a top 5 NFL QB at any point in his career. If he plays for a few more years maybe he gets the Bert Blyleven/Goose Gossage lifetime achievement award but as it stands, right behind him (in terms of passing yards) are Bledsoe and Palmer- not hall off famers- and right above him is Testaverde. He's got a ways to go. Edited January 17, 2017 by metzelaars_lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Never mind Rivers! Let's target Aaron Rodgers in the off-season! If that doesn't work, I want Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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