8-8 Forever? Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Four teams left led by Brady, Rodgers, Rothlisberger, and Ryan. I think that's 7 Super Bowl rings between them. I forget how many Marcia has. Ryan has had a great year while Rodgers has been white hot the last 2 months. Brady took a month off and looks his usual self. R'berger just keeps winning. Then you have the Raiders a 12 win team, lose Carr and McGloin, who lose to the Texans with rookie QB Cook. Can't help but think Raiders win that one if Carr was able to play. Sure hope the Bills have a viable plan to acquire and develop a good qb. i'm sure they will have a plan. and that will guarantee 3 more years of suck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) Yes, he's a hall of famer. He's also not the reason the Giants beat the Pats twice. Certainly not the year the Pats were 18-0 and the Giants held them to 17 points. Much the same way Peyton Manning is a hall of famer and also not the reason the Broncos won it last year. Except he kinda is. His defense kept him in it and gave him a chance to win it but it was only Eli's sheer competitor will to win that kept him on his feet to allow the miracle play. Most QBs in there are on the ground sacked and the Patriots have their unbeaten season. Then the TD throw to Plaxico was outstanding too. Could Eli have won that Superbowl without his D? Nope. But when the ball was in Eli's hands with a chance to go out and win it..... he did just that. Strahan or Osi didn't throw those passes. Eli Manning did. Edited January 17, 2017 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Huh? In the last ten drafts there's been ball park around 1-2 franchise guys per. I never said they were great on raw talent alone. You stink at arguing. 2006-cutler 2007-kevin kolb 2008-ryan, flacco, 2009-stafford, sanchez 2010-bradford, tebow, clausen 2011-newton, dalton, kap, 2012-luck, rg3, tanny, wilson, brock, foles, cousins, 2013- manuel geno 2014-bortles, carr, bridgewater, 2015-winston , mariotta, symien 2016- dak so far so 4 out of 11 drafts have provided no franchise qbs...06, 07,2010, 2013. many of those guys aren't franchise guys. so you can really get it wrong with qb but a lot still get drafted. very low success rate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 2006-cutler 2007-kevin kolb 2008-ryan, flacco, 2009-stafford, sanchez 2010-bradford, tebow, clausen 2011-newton, dalton, kap, 2012-luck, rg3, tanny, wilson, brock, foles, cousins, 2013- manuel geno 2014-bortles, carr, bridgewater, 2015-winston , mariotta, symien 2016- dak so far so 4 out of 11 drafts have provided no franchise qbs...06, 07,2010, 2013. many of those guys aren't franchise guys. so you can really get it wrong with qb but a lot still get drafted. very low success rate You just named like 13 franchise guys right there. Some years are bad some are good but it's usually 1 per draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) I do not think that word means what you think it means.... To be fair there have been 16 Franchise QBs Drafted since 2005 and another if you believe Garoppolo's audition was something indicating future greatness (personally, I'm not convinced, but was a very good showing). Some years there was none, other years there were 2-3, but that is still quite a few while the Bills have NONE of those. Staggering really. Keep in mind the teams that have Brady, Manning (Eli), Big Ben, Brees don't count as any of them. Edited January 17, 2017 by BigBuff423 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Yes, he's a hall of famer. He's also not the reason the Giants beat the Pats twice. Certainly not the year the Pats were 18-0 and the Giants held them to 17 points. Much the same way Peyton Manning is a hall of famer and also not the reason the Broncos won it last year. Manning was not THE reason but he a was A reason; he got downs by hard counts, looking off DBs, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) Talk all you want, but, Dilfer and last year's P Manning win zero of those games.What are you arguing? Your response to what I said makes zero sense. Some dude said once every 20-30 years a team wins a Super Bowl on the backs of their defense and I said it's way more often than that. It is. Manning was not THE reason but he a was A reason; he got downs by hard counts, looking off DBs, etc. That's fine. But if you're listing the reasons they won those Super Bowls, their defense comes first. Edited January 17, 2017 by metzelaars_lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) Manning was not THE reason but he a was A reason; he got downs by hard counts, looking off DBs, etc. Oh, and don't forget he actually led his team to the game winning TD ( not FG) on the NYG final drive in both SB's. Say what you will about Eli: I will always regard him with demigod status for defeating the Evil Empire twice. Edited January 17, 2017 by Boatdrinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) 2016 - Clear Broncos defense dominates Cam Newton - Peyton Manning passes for 141 yards 0 tds 1 int 2015 - Game ends on a pick in the endzone by Patriots defense at near loss - Tom Brady passes for 328 yards 4 tds 2 ints 2014 - Clear Seahawks defense dominates Peyton Manning - Russell Wilson passes for 206 yards 2 tds 0 ints 2013 - Offensive shootout between what is considered as an "manageable" QB in Flacco, and mediocre Colin Kaepernick - Joe Flacco passes for 287 3 tds 0 ints Its kind of funny to see this thread, and then see what won the Super Bowl the last 4 years. Edited January 17, 2017 by What a Tuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 You just named like 13 franchise guys right there. Some years are bad some are good but it's usually 1 per draft. except some years are solid...some years have none. as i just showed you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) Huh? In the last ten drafts there's been ball park around 1-2 franchise guys per. I never said they were great on raw talent alone. You stink at arguing. Come on dude, "1 per draft"??? He just showed you that in FOUR drafts out of 10 there were none. That means 40% of the time there is NOT a "franchise" guy. Just because one or two STRONG drafts had multiple doesn't equal "1 per draft". If you want to determine how many draft classes produced a franchise or better QB, you don't count the total QB's of all the years that hit, you count HOW MANY of the years a QB emerged vs how many that didn't have one that was at least a franchise guy. That is like saying in 9 years there are none, but in one year there 10, therefore we average 1 per year...which is grossly inaccurate. Furthermore, by your math, you claim there are as many as 20 great QB's taken in the last 10 years of the draft. Well there are only 32 teams...now factor in that FIVE of the BEST QB's in the league were drafted MORE than 10 years ago (Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Big Ben, and Rivers) and the math of your claim becomes even more exaggerated. You can also make a case for Eli and Carson Palmer to be included in the ones outside 10 years considering one has 2 SB rings and the other has been a high level franchise QB for most of his career. Which would further push your claim to be even more absurd. WOW...didnt realize that the NFL was dominated by so many great and franchise QB's. Worse yet, every year there is an assessment of the strength of a class, and in the years where it was viewed as strong, we got multiple quality QB's out of them...and the years it was viewed as questionable to weak...those were mostly a bust. And THIS YEAR, the QB class is considered weak again by just about everyone. You literally just spout off with no care as to the reality of what you say. And as far as you claiming you never said they were great on talent alone...here are you answers to the questions you answered to the other poster about that. And, YOUR exact answer to the question: How many great QB's are great regardless of development staff? ALL OF THEM (your words verbatim)...meaning that they made it on their talent. And YOUR exact answer to the next question: How many great QB's are great because of the development staff? NONE (your only word, verbatim)....meaning again, that no staff can elevate a QB above their raw talent. Edited January 17, 2017 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Come on dude, "1 per draft"??? He just showed you that in FOUR drafts out of 10 there were none. That means 40% of the time there is NOT a "franchise" guy. Just because one or two STRONG drafts had multiple doesn't equal "1 per draft". If you want to determine how many draft classes produced a franchise or better QB, you don't count the total QB's of all the years that hit, you count HOW MANY of the years a QB emerged vs how many that didn't have one that was at least a franchise guy. That is like saying in 9 years there are none, but in one year there 10, therefore we average 1 per year...which is grossly inaccurate. Furthermore, by your math, you claim there are as many as 20 great QB's taken in the last 10 years of the draft. Well there are only 32 teams...now factor in that SIX of the BEST QB's in the league were drafted MORE than 10 years ago (Brady, Brees, Ryan, Rodgers, Big Ben, and Rivers) and the math of your claim becomes even more exaggerated. You can also make a case for Eli and Carson Palmer to be included in the ones outside 10 years considering one has 2 SB rings and the other has been a high level franchise QB for most of his career. Which would further push your claim to be even more absurd. WOW...didnt realize that the NFL was dominated by so many great and franchise QB's. Worse yet, every year there is an assessment of the strength of a class, and in the years where it was viewed as strong, we got multiple quality QB's out of them...and the years it was viewed as questionable to weak...those were mostly a bust. And THIS YEAR, the QB class is considered weak again by just about everyone. You literally just spout off with no care as to the reality of what you say. And as far as you claiming you never said they were great on talent alone...here are you answers to the questions you answered to the other poster about that. And, YOUR exact answer to the question: How many great QB's are great regardless of development staff? ALL OF THEM (your words verbatim)...meaning that they made it on their talent. And YOUR exact answer to the next question: How many great QB's are great because of the development staff? NONE (your only word, verbatim)....meaning again, that no staff can elevate a QB above their raw talent. Ryan was Drafted in 2008....just pointing out a minor technicality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) Ryan was Drafted in 2008....just pointing out a minor technicality. Ah, thanks fixed it, for some reason I thought he was a little older than that, felt like he has been in the league forever. Be interesting to see if he gets over the hump this year and gets past GB to the SB. I thought GB would lose to the Cowboys without Jordy, but Rodgers just keeps rolling. Early line I saw yesterday had the over set at 60 in Vegas lol. Edited January 17, 2017 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCbillsfan Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 i'm sure they will have a plan. and that will guarantee 3 more years of suckNooooooooooooo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 What are you arguing? Your response to what I said makes zero sense. Some dude said once every 20-30 years a team wins a Super Bowl on the backs of their defense and I said it's way more often than that. It is. QBs matter. You brought up Eli Manning as an example and, IMO, his SB winning teams don't win with just any QB. Your logic is false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Ah, thanks fixed it, for some reason I thought he was a little older than that, felt like he has been in the league forever. Be interesting to see if he gets over the hump this year and gets past GB to the SB. I thought GB would lose to the Cowboys without Jordy, but Rodgers just keeps rolling. Early line I saw yesterday had the over set at 60 in Vegas lol. Rodgers is just....other-worldly. And Green Bay had the chops to Draft him 1st round with another Hall of Famer actively playing - and playing well, yet no "controversy" that I can recall. Managed it well, and hard to argue having him sit for a couple years was a bad thing....everybody turned out well in that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) Rodgers is just....other-worldly. And Green Bay had the chops to Draft him 1st round with another Hall of Famer actively playing - and playing well, yet no "controversy" that I can recall. Managed it well, and hard to argue having him sit for a couple years was a bad thing....everybody turned out well in that one. Well when you have a SB contending roster and future HOF QB nearing the end of his career, you can afford to draft his replacement in the first round when a guy considered for the #1 overall draft pick slides all the way down to you in the bottom quarter of the first round at 24. And yes the dude is insane! Its not often those situations play out so perfectly. Reminds me of when the Spurs lost David Robinson for the season and wound up winning the lottery to take Tim Duncan. Edited January 17, 2017 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) Four teams left led by Brady, Rodgers, Rothlisberger, and Ryan. I think that's 7 Super Bowl rings between them. I forget how many Marcia has. Ryan has had a great year while Rodgers has been white hot the last 2 months. Brady took a month off and looks his usual self. R'berger just keeps winning. Then you have the Raiders a 12 win team, lose Carr and McGloin, who lose to the Texans with rookie QB Cook. Can't help but think Raiders win that one if Carr was able to play. Sure hope the Bills have a viable plan to acquire and develop a good qb. Unnecessary! Tyrod is the man. Look at all the points the offense scored. Edited January 17, 2017 by vincec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 There are too many awful QB's to list that have won or played in the SuperBowl. Yes I agree these four are amazing and three make the HOF. No different than when Elway, Montana, Kelly, Young, and Marino where playing. Except three of those guys couldn't win the game when they were the focal point of their offense. In fact you can make a nice parallel to today. Elway is Roethisberger now reliant on a running game. Rodgers and Brady are Young and Montana. Ryan is Marino with a ton of yards and zero to show for it. There are lots of ways to win in this league. Sign me up for a superstar QB just for the pure joy of watching them play for the Bills week after week. Until they draft that guy, all I care is winning and competing in the playoffs. Even an average defense gets the Bills to the divisional round of the playoffs this past year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 So we just shouldnt do it then? Ignore the QB position all together because of the Jets drafting track record? The only way to get a franchise QB that you keep for 10+ years is to draft one. Drew Brees. Eli Manning. Tony Romo. Kurt Warner. Matt Hasselback. Brett Favre. Alex Smith. Craig Morton. Peyton Manning. Fran Tarkenton. After watching all the match ups, I'm thinking a great kicker is pretty important. WE NEED A NEW KICKER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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