John from Riverside Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 You can evaluate them, but when every evaluation is the same, "I like the pick, he could be really good!" How much is it truly worth? Agree that Lawson is a better fit in a 4-3. Which I was hoping for leading up to the draft, because Rex's days were numbered. I honestly dont think you follow my evaluations to even know whether I do or dont like a particular pick. I do think that when you dont agree with another opinion....you tend to do this **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 You can evaluate them, but when every evaluation is the same, "I like the pick, he could be really good!" How much is it truly worth? Agree that Lawson is a better fit in a 4-3. Which I was hoping for leading up to the draft, because Rex's days were numbered. Ha, about the same as- "I hate the pick, we reached for a need!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) I honestly dont think you follow my evaluations to even know whether I do or dont like a particular pick. I do think that when you dont agree with another opinion....you tend to do this **** John, I'd love to know how many Bills picks you rightly or wrongly hated at the time. Ha, about the same as- "I hate the pick, we reached for a need!"Except that's never been a unilateral position of mine. I loved Cardale in the 4th. Liked Karlos in the 5th. Hated Darby, but not because he was a need. Loved Watkins the player, not the trade. Was ambivalent on Preston Brown. Liked Seantrel. Liked Duke Williams. I fully admit I've been wrong and could still continue to be wrong. Teams don't draft in a vacuum and always balance need vs BPA. Shaq happened to be a good combination of need and BPA. Please show me proof that drafting for need historically sucks. Because there's a huge difference in drafting Shaq Lawson because you're thin on DL vs drafting Travares Tillman because you needed a safety. I'm not in a position to break it down right now, but feel free to evaluate the Bills drafts over the last 20 years along with their FA departures. Edited December 22, 2016 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 We needed a pass rusher - that was clear. He had a 1st round grade by most people's opinions. He was probably the #2 pass rusher, but Ogbah wasn't far behind. To many who would've liked WR's, none of them really stood out as 1st round talents - thus that would be a reach. Everyone talks Fuller, but we were much more likely to draft size in Treadwell (who fell because he was slow at the combine), or Doctson (not a great route runner). I think we got a solid contributor in the mid-late first round. That he was on defense means everyone considers it a Rex pick. The fact really was that outside of a couple top end offensive players, this was a defense heavy draft. Missing camp and a ton of practice definitely hurts. He didn't get a chance to work much against NFL tackles/guards, practice different rush moves, or learn the defense. For that reason i think its a tad early to be worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 I'm not in a position to break it down right now, but feel free to evaluate the Bills drafts over the last 20 years along with their FA departures. You're the one who threw out that theory. Why is it upon me to show data? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 You're the one who threw out that theory. Why is it upon me to show data? It's not. I'm just not in a position to open 4 tabs breaking everything down while traveling. You'll have to wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 It's not. I'm just not in a position to open 4 tabs breaking everything down while traveling. You'll have to wait. I can wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) Agree. He should play DE. Too slow and not athletic enough for OLB. Honestly...Everyone who follows the Draft and Scouting seemed to know this...Except Rex and Whaley...I do think Rex was pushing hard saying Shaq would fit that spot...Rex is the HC running this incredible Defense...So obviously he knows best... And for the record I think Shaq will be a very good 4-3 DE in the NFL... There was a lot of disagreement on Shaq Lawson the prospect. A few "scout" type guys that I follow of twitter, including Matt Waldman, who does a lot of nice video breakdowns, really disliked Shaq Lawson. While he liked his overall power and stoutness against the run, he thought he was extremely slow, stiff, and many times the very last DL to react to the snap. He had some pictures of the entire Clemson DL already 1 or 2 steps out of their stance on the snap and Shaq would just be getting his hand out of the dirt. Also very slow, and no bend coming off the edge. Said you can find run stoppers in the 3rd and 4th round and really didn't understand the 1st round hype surrounding the guy. So far, I tend to agree with what his tape showed. I think I watched just about every snap from Shaq's Sr year...Twice...The off the ball thing was real...It was the single biggest negative on Shaq... But I came away loving the kid...Not because I thought he was the next Bruce Smith...I loved him because he clearly showed he was disciplined in his approach to the game, and he never gives up on a play...His game is not the flashy speed rush game you get with a true edge guy...It's more of a traditional 4-3 DE who knows his responsibilities, follows them to the letter, and he'll give you some decent pass rush as a bonus...A lot of his sacks came from pure hustle and determination...But I would not sell him short as an athlete either...He's not slow...I think this may be a product of no training camp, or just a misconception...I think when you understand what the kid brings it's almost impossible not to like him... So...That's my mini Scouting report on Shaq...I think he'll be fine... Edited December 22, 2016 by KOKBILLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Fuller isn't having a good season statistically. He has a 47.7 percent catch rate, which is absolute bottom of the barrel. This. If that name is the best people can do it is laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 This. If that name is the best people can do it is laughable. Marshall, Hurns, Robinson, Kearse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Marshall, Hurns, Robinson, Kearse. What about them? None of them were in this year's draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) What about them? None of them were in this year's draft. All have similar catch rates. All busts, apparently. Edited December 22, 2016 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) All have similar catch rates. All busts, apparently.i believe the original claim was that Will Fuller is a "difference maker" who was available and drafted after pick 19. Do you think there is maybe some space in between "difference maker" and "bust" that he might fit into? Blaming the QB and saying he has the potential to be a star at some point in the future is not the same as claiming he's currently more of a difference maker today than Shaq Lawson. Also no one said he was a bust, but you knew that. Edited December 22, 2016 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 i believe the original claim was that Will Fuller is a "difference maker" who was available and drafted after pick 19. Do you think there is maybe some space in between "difference maker" and "bust" that he might fit into? Blaming the QB and saying he has the potential to be a star at some point in the future is not the same as claiming he's currently more of a difference maker today than Shaq Lawson. Also no one said he was a bust, but you knew that. I think in 2016, having 16 games of Fuller would've made more of a difference than 6 games of Shaq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 I think in 2016, having 16 games of Fuller would've made more of a difference than 6 games of Shaq.Fuller has only played in 12 games for the Texans so far as he's had a groin injury all year. if we are talking a difference maker for the Bills in particular, i think that one was drafted after Shaq, but it's not Will Fuller, who I think would have had about the same production as Goodwin had this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 All have similar catch rates. All busts, apparently. Do you think any of them have had good years? Fuller was being suggested as the "impact" guy the Bills should have drafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Quick, name the difference makers who were picked after #18 this year. Deion Jones, Keanu Neal would have been a perfect use of the top two picks. Hire whoever is GM in ATL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Bills Fan Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Right after the draft I watched the highlight tape of Shaq. He hustled on every play but he was the last lineman to move, offensive or defensive, on EVERY play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 He's a rookie that had no training camp and has had almost no time to get in any meaningful technique work...he is learning as he goes...I don't think he has played bad at all, he is in the backfield a few times a game...not bad for the snaps he is playing While I agree with the consensus that he looks a little overweight (I should talk!), I agree with you, though, that he has had some good moments. I bet he comes into next season in much better shape, and quiets some people down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Right after the draft I watched the highlight tape of Shaq. He hustled on every play but he was the last lineman to move, offensive or defensive, on EVERY play. I read an article around the draft that said he was supposed to make a read before attacking that's why he was slow off the line. I guess he still has to make that read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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