Ronin Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) Ugh. The life of a Bills fan. Yeah, pretty much. Largely thanks to a GM that shouldn't even be here anymore. it's unfortunate, because the major mistakes that this team makes are typically trivial ones and very easily avoidable. I don't think that individually Ragland and Lawson will be huge loses. As a whole, it definitely makes the offseason look very weak. The Bills added very little (ok, almost nothing) to an already average roster. The Jets seemed to regress under Rex, and now that he hired his brother, I don't know...I'm not expecting this defense to shock the world or anything. Injuries happen and as Bills fans we understand bad luck more than anyone, but they really did not set themselves up to be in the best situation given where they were after Marrone's 9-7* season. I've been on the fence about Whaley, but he has shown himself to really not be prepared with a back-up plan when sh*t starts to hit the fan (Jeff Tuel started a game for Christ's sake). We'll see how this year goes I guess... *wk 17 fake win Good post! Edited August 10, 2016 by TaskersGhost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 It almost sounds as though you are enjoying these unfortunate injuries. Seems as though there are much easier teams for you to follow. You know, those teams that never have injured players? It transcends enjoyment of the injuries; he's emotionally invested in their negative outcomes. For instance and in case you missed it, he has predicted that Sammy will miss significant time due to injury this season. Will it make him happy to sit back and see it NOT happen? I doubt it as it's more important for him to be right. And that's a psychology debate for another time. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Shady's contract can rightfully be debated, but the team was not hamstrung by it or the cap this off-season. They were able to sign everyone they wanted to bring back and are still under the cap with room to get Tyrod and Gilmore locked up (or tagged) for next year. The cap fears we heard so much groaning about headed into the off season were overblown. The Bills traded for a running back who was making $9M per year.......admittedly for his prime years.......after 2 years of a 5 year contract in Philly. The advantage of the trade was that about half of that $9M per was prepaid by Philly and wouldn't count on the Bills cap. There was no reason to throw another $26M in guarantees at the guy.......he was prepaid not underpaid(as you have implied on more than one occasion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billschinatown Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 It transcends enjoyment of the injuries; he's emotionally invested in their negative outcomes. For instance and in case you missed it, he has predicted that Sammy will miss significant time due to injury this season. Will it make him happy to sit back and see it NOT happen? I doubt it as it's more important for him to be right. And that's a psychology debate for another time. GO BILLS!!! We all have ways of coping with Bills heartache. It just so happens his way is particularly vexing. Know this though: If we become winners, i guarantee you he will be more than overjoyed to be wrong. He'll be cheering for all the touchdowns too. Unless he's Jerry Sullivan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 It transcends enjoyment of the injuries; he's emotionally invested in their negative outcomes. For instance and in case you missed it, he has predicted that Sammy will miss significant time due to injury this season. Will it make him happy to sit back and see it NOT happen? I doubt it as it's more important for him to be right. And that's a psychology debate for another time. GO BILLS!!! OR, it's called discussion. In one camp we have a whole group of people defending the team's leadership starting with Whaley. They insist what's always the "sunshine, rainbows, and lollipops" angle to everything. Again, two days ago many here insisted, not guessed, but insisted and chided those thinking otherwise as "chicken littles" etc., that Ragland's status would be an F5. Well, that turned out to be cataclysmically wrong. The pschological case study here is the one involving as the control group those that think that Whaley's doing a good job while acknowledging all of our woes but merely chalking them up to bad luck. It's petty and childish for people to suggest that other fans actually relish and enjoy injuries. It's kind of like a parent, except different, watching your team make strategic errors time after time while having to sit by idly and "let them learn," espeically when those "kids of yours" are exorbitantly paid "professionals." It's even more frustrating and aggravating to hear people applaud them when you know that they're destroying that that they've been entrusted with. Adding insult to injury of course are the mindless minions of those doing that supporting that with whom apparently the futility of this organization over the last two decades has gone, apparently, unnoticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) So I suppose that the definition of prolific varies from yours to mine or otherwise, but the point was that after he comes back from surgery, he's not going to have improved any of those things, plus, he'll have recover to concern himself with as well, and shoulder, not knee, which is far more complex and likely to have to have revision surgeries of one kind or another to boot not to mention more likely to not be closer to 100%. He's no shoe-in. Yes, the definition varies. IMO, if a guy leads his conference in sacks, that would be considered productive (again, I don't know how you define prolific, but it sounds as though you mean it to say that a "prolific" pass rusher is someone that is a good bet to be a double-digit sack guy in the NFL). That said, of course there's no such thing as a shoo-in; the most you can hope for is a productive player. Also, think about it, every draft everyone thinks that all the first rounders are going to shine, for whichever team, when around half are always busts, and of the remaining ones, they play to varying levels otherwise rendering the odds of any given 1st-round draftee becoming what the team expected at the time of the draft as being significantly less than 50%. Suggesting that we're somehow exempt from that makes no sense, you know that. So that's my point, the odds of either Ragland or Shaq turning out to be this force that we're all hoping is significantly less than 50%, the chance that both of them turn out that way is significantly less than 25%, based on proven NFL Draft post-mortems, i.e. statistically supported. Of course I wouldn't suggest that Buffalo is immune to the law of averages--we have guys like EJ and Kouandjio that prove it. Again, I'm not dismissing the idea that Shaq won't be a perennial double-digit sack guy in the NFL; I'm merely saying that he was a very productive pass rusher in college (12.5 sacks in 13 games) when given the chance to start as a senior. The most one could say to marginalize his pass-rushing productivity would be to question the level of competition, but upon closer inspection that doesn't hold water: http://www.cfbstats.com/2015/player/147/1054839/tackleforloss/split.html http://www.cfbstats.com/2015/player/147/1054839/sack/split.html His TFL/game and sacks/game stats are basically identical vs. ranked and unranked teams. In fact, his sacks/game nearly double when facing Power 5 conference teams over those when he faced conferences outside the Power 5. Just some food for thought. Edited August 10, 2016 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 The Bills traded for a running back who was making $9M per year.......admittedly for his prime years.......after 2 years of a 5 year contract in Philly. The advantage of the trade was that about half of that $9M per was prepaid by Philly and wouldn't count on the Bills cap. There was no reason to throw another $26M in guarantees at the guy.......he was prepaid not underpaid(as you have implied on more than one occasion). Uh, yeah... As I said, the contract can be debated and rightfully criticized. What's not debatable is the contention that the contract hamstrung the Bills this off season. It hasn't and didn't. Whether or not Shady would have showed up without a new deal is debatable. You think he would have happily continued to play for a new team with less than 1 million in guaranteed money left on his existing deal. I say that's not realistic nor is it the best way to show a guy with known diva qualities he's wanted -- especially when he's coming off a season with Kelly with whom he had a lot of friction. A protracted holdout and contract dispute is the last thing the Bills needed or wanted last year after dealing for a RB they intended on being their bell cow, doubly so when you consider how little time they had to bring him up to integrate him into the fold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 when are they gonna figure out a way to heal acls in weeks rather than 6 months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 The most one could say to marginalize his pass-rushing productivity would be to question the level of competition, but upon closer inspection that doesn't hold water: http://www.cfbstats.com/2015/player/147/1054839/tackleforloss/split.html http://www.cfbstats.com/2015/player/147/1054839/sack/split.html His TFL/game and sacks/game stats are basically identical vs. ranked and unranked teams. In fact, his sacks/game nearly double when facing Power 5 conference teams over those when he faced conferences outside the Power 5. Just some food for thought. So he's a perfect buffalo bill. He plays down to the level of his opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 :lol: Created and tweeted by Bre of Bills Mafia fame... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew in CA Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 :lol: LMAO While it's a real bummer, I don't think this means a lost season by any means -- that being said if I'm wrong and the defense really bites it without Lawson and Ragland, please let the team really tank so we get the #1 pick -- enough 6-10/7-9. There's some good young talent on this team so for the long term, it might not be so bad if they blow it bad enough to get a real high pick and keep stocking the young talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Refreshing. I'm still excited too. I'm also sad that we will not see Reggie Ragland. I wanted him with the first pick and he will be great. However, there's still a lot of reasons to be excited - Tyrod's second year, running game particularly if Shady stays healthy Watkins could explode, love the speed guys if they can stay healthy, the secondary particularly if A. Williams stays healthy, K. Williams was still at the top of his game when he went down, Hughes may be poised for a breakout season, Preston Brown may return to form and build on 2014 rookie season, and haven't even mentioned Marcell Dareus. Ok, I surely jinxed all these players now. I'll go! Awesome post! GO BILLS!!! We all have ways of coping with Bills heartache. It just so happens his way is particularly vexing. Know this though: If we become winners, i guarantee you he will be more than overjoyed to be wrong. He'll be cheering for all the touchdowns too. Unless he's Jerry Sullivan. He makes Sully look like a flaming optimist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Uh, yeah... As I said, the contract can be debated and rightfully criticized. What's not debatable is the contention that the contract hamstrung the Bills this off season. It hasn't and didn't. Whether or not Shady would have showed up without a new deal is debatable. You think he would have happily continued to play for a new team with less than 1 million in guaranteed money left on his existing deal. I say that's not realistic nor is it the best way to show a guy with known diva qualities he's wanted -- especially when he's coming off a season with Kelly with whom he had a lot of friction. A protracted holdout and contract dispute is the last thing the Bills needed or wanted last year after dealing for a RB they intended on being their bell cow, doubly so when you consider how little time they had to bring him up to integrate him into the fold. Shady's contract didn't directly hamstring the Bills.......but they were much, much less willing to make even relatively cheap, hole-patching deals in free agency and they cited cap room as a concern. It's a significant issue not that far off on the horizon. It would be naive to suggest that it did not impact cap decisions this offseason and possibly even how the team drafted. As for the lack of guarantees on the back end of Shady's deal.......you can say that about almost any big NFL contract at it's mid-point.........up front money and bonus/guarantees early are the backbone of the NFL salary system. The fact that Shady had a rep for being difficult and irrational......that really isn't a reason to rip up the last 3 years of a $9M per year deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 when are they gonna figure out a way to heal acls in weeks rather than 6 months? Thurman Thomas just went without Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 @JeremyWGR Bills DC Dennis Thurman on the loss of Ragland says... It’s not necessarily a next man up scenario. They’ll have to make scheme changes. Didn't Rex prove him and scheme changes don't jive last year? That statement scares me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 :lol: Shady's contract didn't directly hamstring the Bills... FTFY. As for the lack of guarantees on the back end of Shady's deal.......you can say that about almost any big NFL contract at it's mid-point.........up front money and bonus/guarantees early are the backbone of the NFL salary system. Yup, and veterans hold out to redo these types of deals all the time. Thanks for proving my point. The fact that Shady had a rep for being difficult and irrational......that really isn't a reason to rip up the last 3 years of a $9M per year deal. Not doing so, when such things are commonplace and there was room to do it, was inviting trouble and a possible holdout. Considering when the deal went down and how little time they had to get him into the fold, it was the prudent thing to renegotiate his deal. Whether they paid too much -- that's debatable all day. But they had to do something or risk Shady not showing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Way too many tangents in a thread about a knee. Let's keep things on topic please...and civil. If you want to have a larger front office discussion then please start a thread. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwalter Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 i'm sure it's been said, but damn, kiko flashbacks on the positive side, i've always believed LB to be the lease important level of the defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 @thadbrown7 Cell phone vid of Ragland injury. Pretty much as you'd expect. Trying to make play. Knee just caught wrong. https://twitter.com/i/videos/tweet/763459537768624129 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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