Observer Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Except that he needed investor money to launch and maintain the company in the early years and yeah taxpayer money didn't hurt. Exactly. He marshaled every resource he could to make his vision into reality. Imagine if politicians were able to get the government, private industry, and people to rally to causes in the way Musk did. He started a space exploration company. He started an automotive company. He co-founded an alternate payment system. That is a guy who gets stuff done. (I found his recent biography cold and uninteresting BTW. Still have no idea who he is.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 3, 2016 Author Share Posted August 3, 2016 Except that he needed investor money to launch and maintain the company in the early years and yeah taxpayer money didn't hurt. High tech manufacturing is good and certainly the future but even lower tech manufacturing is good for jobs. Not everyone is a line worker in older style manufacturing. The economic impact of building plants, hiring higher level management along with lesser skilled labor is huge compared to sourcing goods made off-shore or south of the border. We'll never get back much of the large-scale manufacturing we've lost but IMO we've got to find ways to make more products here and competitively so. See: American Apparel It CAN be done, despite the nay-saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 I have no problems with public and private partnerships the problem is the delivery system, execution and how contracts are distributed. This is where the best and brightest minds from the private sector can play a role for the government. Obviously, the main incentive for them to stay in the private sector is that the government wouldn't be able to come close to matching what they could earn if they stayed put, however I do believe that many successful entrepreneurs in the tech and other groundbreaking sectors motives for heading such projects for the government would be more of a civic duty than anything else. If they were to be approached by the president and he told them that he'd elevate and in a sense market their arrival and acceptance of such a role, I'd be willing to bet you that really competent and creative people would take such a task. The problem today is that bureaucrats are usually in charge of these things rather than the best of the best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Exactly. He marshaled every resource he could to make his vision into reality. Imagine if politicians were able to get the government, private industry, and people to rally to causes in the way Musk did. He started a space exploration company. He started an automotive company. He co-founded an alternate payment system. That is a guy who gets stuff done. (I found his recent biography cold and uninteresting BTW. Still have no idea who he is.) Bolded part 1: Other than wars or whatever, that is not the job of a politician in a productive society. There job is to help clear the path for people like Musk if they are being impeded by unnecessary government restrictions and/or unfair practices by other people in the private sector. Bolded part 2: Musk is definitely interesting now as you point out but was pretty boring in the beginning. He made his money in fragrance and licensed his name like Trump. Whoop de do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 The machinery need to replace 100 workers probably needs 4-5 workers to maintain and program - why would you replace labor with machines if you need as much labor to maintain the machinesquality of work. Consistency of the product. Safety is a major factor, probably the biggest. You have employees being sick, benefits, training someone new in a field where most only work the job 2 yrs or so. I work in manufacturing. I have almost all of my career. I'd rather take 5 machines and 8 people in almost all cases over 20-25 people. One operator per machine generally isn't even needed. One operator on 2 or three machines, a spuhl or homag let's say is entirely feasible. Many companies waste this and let too many machines sit idle. Thomasville furniture did this. Daimler Chrysler is doing this. DC is even worse because they're union and they require so many to be employed but do not have the work flow to keep them working. They just announced a yuuuge layoff, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Exactly. He marshaled every resource he could to make his vision into reality. Imagine if politicians were able to get the government, private industry, and people to rally to causes in the way Musk did. He started a space exploration company. He started an automotive company. He co-founded an alternate payment system. That is a guy who gets stuff done. (I found his recent biography cold and uninteresting BTW. Still have no idea who he is.) All good. My point was your comment on how we need fewer wall streeters and more like Musk. He could not have pulled this off without Wall St. type investors. Agree we need more innovators but they'll often need the rich evil risk takers to fund the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 I'm a fogey, and I know better. If they're younger than me and don't understand the advantages of automation, then they're just stupid. Lots of people do. I couldn't care less. Your numbers are arbitrary, and your use of the word "worker" is synonymous with "drone". Do factory employees want more jobs and higher pay? The only way to do that in the US and have any hope of competing internationally is to automate factories and get technical training, preferably a tech or engineering degree. I worked with several at Thomasville that never made over $20k despite working there 30 yrs. Many still in boarding houses and renting in their 60's. Working in to their 70's. Lyblob would be fine with this because they're employed,rright? These employees could barely use their hands or stand up straight from crouching all day. Would duct tape a scratch or cut to keep going. Forced to work weekends for fear of losing their job they depend on just to feed their family making so little they need all the OT they can get. And in a good year maybe they make $7-8k on OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 3, 2016 Author Share Posted August 3, 2016 I worked with several at Thomasville that never made over $20k despite working there 30 yrs. Many still in boarding houses and renting in their 60's. Working in to their 70's. Lyblob would be fine with this because they're employed,rright? These employees could barely use their hands or stand up straight from crouching all day. Would duct tape a scratch or cut to keep going. Forced to work weekends for fear of losing their job they depend on just to feed their family making so little they need all the OT they can get. And in a good year maybe they make $7-8k on OT. Sad story, for sure. But wouldn't it be more sad if they were on the dole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Because Obama said that ATM's are the reason unemployment is high. It's true, but I don't see too many not popping out 2-5 kids these days.... We're kind of a stupid race of being sometimes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 It's true, but I don't see too many not popping out 2-5 kids these days.... We're kind of a stupid race of being sometimes... Sometimes?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Except that he needed investor money to launch and maintain the company in the early years and yeah taxpayer money didn't hurt. High tech manufacturing is good and certainly the future but even lower tech manufacturing is good for jobs. Not everyone is a line worker in older style manufacturing. The economic impact of building plants, hiring higher level management along with lesser skilled labor is huge compared to sourcing goods made off-shore or south of the border. We'll never get back much of the large-scale manufacturing we've lost but IMO we've got to find ways to make more products here and competitively so. While I don't disagree, I think most people understand (or they should, anyway) that low-skill manufacturing jobs will never pay the kind of wage earned by people who design, program, and service automated production, and that the latter is the future of any real manufacturing that will exist in the US in the near future. Tech isn't just the future, it's already here. I think he has the "onerous regulatory and restrictive environment" covered. It appears his business model is exploiting the regulations. Economist refer to this as rent seeking. While I oppose this sort of thing on principle, Musk is taking advantage of the government's decidedly political stance on forcing clean energy instead of fossil fuels. I would do exactly the same thing were I in his position. I have no problems with public and private partnerships the problem is the delivery system, execution and how contracts are distributed. This is where the best and brightest minds from the private sector can play a role for the government. Obviously, the main incentive for them to stay in the private sector is that the government wouldn't be able to come close to matching what they could earn if they stayed put, however I do believe that many successful entrepreneurs in the tech and other groundbreaking sectors motives for heading such projects for the government would be more of a civic duty than anything else. If they were to be approached by the president and he told them that he'd elevate and in a sense market their arrival and acceptance of such a role, I'd be willing to bet you that really competent and creative people would take such a task. The problem today is that bureaucrats are usually in charge of these things rather than the best of the best. Couldn't agree more. I worked with several at Thomasville that never made over $20k despite working there 30 yrs. Many still in boarding houses and renting in their 60's. Working in to their 70's. Lyblob would be fine with this because they're employed,rright? These employees could barely use their hands or stand up straight from crouching all day. Would duct tape a scratch or cut to keep going. Forced to work weekends for fear of losing their job they depend on just to feed their family making so little they need all the OT they can get. And in a good year maybe they make $7-8k on OT. My mother's parents both worked at the Bassett furniture factory near Martinsville, Virginia for most of their adult lives. They worked their asses off, and earned a pittance for it. The demand for higher skilled, better educated employees in factories such as those is a win for everybody, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 While I don't disagree, I think most people understand (or they should, anyway) that low-skill manufacturing jobs will never pay the kind of wage earned by people who design, program, and service automated production, and that the latter is the future of any real manufacturing that will exist in the US in the near future. Tech isn't just the future, it's already here. While I oppose this sort of thing on principle, Musk is taking advantage of the government's decidedly political stance on forcing clean energy instead of fossil fuels. I would do exactly the same thing were I in his position. Couldn't agree more. My mother's parents both worked at the Bassett furniture factory near Martinsville, Virginia for most of their adult lives. They worked their asses off, and earned a pittance for it. The demand for higher skilled, better educated employees in factories such as those is a win for everybody, imo. we are one of their largest suppliers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 (edited) Personally I hate him for two reasons. Reason one is every time we see a Tesla, and we see a lot seeing they're built right down the road, my wife says "I want one of those!!!" Reason two is if one of those damn things sneaks up on me from behind seeing you can't hear them and scares the **** out of me one more time.I'm taking a hammer to it. Soon the listen part of stop, look and listen we grew up with will be a thing of the past. Edited August 3, 2016 by Chef Jim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Personally I hate him for two reasons. Reason one is every time we see a Tesla, and we see a lot seeing they're built right down the road, my wife says "I want one of those!!!" Reason two is if one of those damn things sneaks up on me from behind seeing you can't hear them and scares the **** out of me I'm taking a hammer to it. Soon the listen part of stop, look and listen we grew up with will be a thing of the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 "Solar City is subsidized by the tax breaks given to taxpayers that install Solar City panels!" NO !@#$ING ****, YOU WHACKADOODLES! Your express intent was to jump-start "green" energy by subsidizing it. Now that they're actually WORKING, you DISAGREE with them? Nothing quite as nauseating as the people who push for subsidies and tax breaks turning around and bitching about people actually using them. They consider Solyndra a success story because they went bankrupt, and Solar City a failure because Musk is wealthy. !@#$ing retards. I'm a guy who questions the legality and morality of income tax so you know where I'm coming from. The idea that they are exempting you or subsidizing is really just giving your own money back they confiscated. I don't want the government involved with anything in the private sector. They can't do the simplest shite efficiently and effectively and now they have intellectual wherewithal, the motivation and I would say urgency to invest correctly? I don't think so. It's not their money so they really don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 Solar power LOL: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/14/your-money/solar-snare-spend-thousands-and-cut-power-bills-by-9-a-month.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Solar power LOL: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/14/your-money/solar-snare-spend-thousands-and-cut-power-bills-by-9-a-month.html I really hate this new brand of journalism that explains nothing, and relies solely on random quotes and comments to generate a story. Nothing in that article explains what is causing the problems. For example: how exactly does adding insulation and solar panels INCREASE electricity use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 Liberals loved him. Then came intellectual honesty. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precision Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 11 hours ago, BillsFanNC said: Liberals loved him. Then came intellectual honesty. It must lodge their panties way up their crack when they have to climb into their climate saving Tesla every day. To think the man that destroyed their liberal Twitter echo chamber is getting rich off them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 @B-Man - your keepers love to upstage you and make you look like a hypocrite. On 11/14/2022 at 3:28 PM, B-Man said: This topic is OLD. A NEW topic should be started unless there is a very specific reason to revive this one. DR brings a thread back to life from SIX YEARS ago and not a PEEP out of you. Coward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts