Do the Bills Need New Medical Staff/Trainers?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

It was reported, prior to the departure of the now-Jacksonville Jaguars OL coach, that he and Whaley wanted to see changes in the Bills training staff, feeling that they were too "old school" and using outdated techniques.

 

The last couple years, it has seemed as though the Bills have been plagued by unusual numbers of injuries and worse, re-injuries as they bring players back.

 

The medical staff "cleared" 2014 2nd round draft pick Kouandjio despite reports he had an arthritic knee. The team has been coy about it, but there has been talk of a condition that must be "managed", and while he came into last seasons camp strong, he faded. One possibility would be a condition that healed up over the off season but flared again with use/overuse.

 

The medical staff "cleared" this year's 1st round draft pick Shaq Lawson, who had reports of a shoulder injury that would require surgery. Now he's had surgery.

 

In public, Whaley reports he "has full confidence" in our medical staff, but if Lawson can go from "able to play through a season" to "needs immediate surgery" with one swim move in a non-contact drill, is that confidence deserved?

[jumbalaya]

Bills medical check on draftees consists of asking the draftee if he is healthy.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Would this be on the athletic trainers or the team doctors though?

[BringBackFergy]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2015/2014-adjusted-games-lost Looks as though we are one of the healthier teams in the NFL over the past few years. It all goes in cycles.

 

2014 Results

Obviously every team would prefer a low AGL, but some teams will inevitably have a tough year of injuries. The following table lists the AGL totals and rankings for 2014 along with the results from 2013 for comparison. Teams are sorted from healthiest in 2014 (Denver) to most injured (New York Giants). This data is only for the regular season.

Team 2013 AGL 2013 Rank 2014 AGL 2014 Rank DEN 83.6 25 36.9 1 NYJ 43.0 6 41.5 2 GB 103.0 31 41.9 3 PIT 82.9 24 42.8 4 PHI 32.2 1 48.6 5 CAR 70.8 19 51.4 6 BAL 47.4 9 52.6 7 MIN 53.9 11 56.1 8 NO 71.3 20 58.0 9 BUF 44.3 8 59.0 10 HOU 63.7 17 59.9 11 NE 97.6 29 62.0 12 STL 47.4 10 64.1 13 CLE 41.1 3 67.0 14 DET 62.6 15 67.6 15 CIN 41.7 5 71.7 16 Team 2013 AGL 2013 Rank 2014 AGL 2014 Rank ARI 62.8 16 72.8 17 SEA 60.1 13 74.8 18 DAL 66.6 18 76.1 19 JAC 74.1 21 77.8 20 MIA 59.9 12 79.5 21 TEN 43.9 7 79.7 22 TB 85.3 26 87.2 23 WAS 41.4 4 89.5 24 ATL 90.0 27 93.8 25 KC 40.0 2 98.8 26 CHI 62.4 14 101.6 27 SF 81.5 23 101.8 28 OAK 76.9 22 103.6 29 IND 100.7 30 104.7 30 SD 91.0 28 119.1 31 NYG 141.3 32 137.1 32

[hondo in seattle]

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2015/2014-adjusted-games-lost Looks as though we are one of the healthier teams in the NFL over the past few years. It all goes in cycles.

 

2014 Results

Obviously every team would prefer a low AGL, but some teams will inevitably have a tough year of injuries. The following table lists the AGL totals and rankings for 2014 along with the results from 2013 for comparison. Teams are sorted from healthiest in 2014 (Denver) to most injured (New York Giants). This data is only for the regular season.

Team 2013 AGL 2013 Rank 2014 AGL 2014 Rank DEN 83.6 25 36.9 1 NYJ 43.0 6 41.5 2 GB 103.0 31 41.9 3 PIT 82.9 24 42.8 4 PHI 32.2 1 48.6 5 CAR 70.8 19 51.4 6 BAL 47.4 9 52.6 7 MIN 53.9 11 56.1 8 NO 71.3 20 58.0 9 BUF 44.3 8 59.0 10 HOU 63.7 17 59.9 11 NE 97.6 29 62.0 12 STL 47.4 10 64.1 13 CLE 41.1 3 67.0 14 DET 62.6 15 67.6 15 CIN 41.7 5 71.7 16 Team 2013 AGL 2013 Rank 2014 AGL 2014 Rank ARI 62.8 16 72.8 17 SEA 60.1 13 74.8 18 DAL 66.6 18 76.1 19 JAC 74.1 21 77.8 20 MIA 59.9 12 79.5 21 TEN 43.9 7 79.7 22 TB 85.3 26 87.2 23 WAS 41.4 4 89.5 24 ATL 90.0 27 93.8 25 KC 40.0 2 98.8 26 CHI 62.4 14 101.6 27 SF 81.5 23 101.8 28 OAK 76.9 22 103.6 29 IND 100.7 30 104.7 30 SD 91.0 28 119.1 31 NYG 141.3 32 137.1 32

 

 

I'll never understand why people insist on bringing facts into the conversation.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Would this be on the athletic trainers or the team doctors though?

 

I could be wrong, but here's my understanding of roles and responsibilities:

1) strength and conditioning staff - provide players with off-season workouts and oversee OTA, training camp, and in season workouts customized for player position and individual player goals

2) medical staff - diagnose and treat injuries and work with training staff to come up with a rehabilitation plan and timeline

3) training staff - rehabilitate and treat injuries and chronic conditions

 

So if injuries/conditions of prospective draftees are being missed or under-diagnosed, that would seem to be on the medical staff?

But if injured players are being mis-handled or brought back too soon, that would be on both medical staff and training staff?

Of course one could look at S&C as are they providing the best pro-active conditioning and training to prevent injuries

[The Wiz]

I was going to make a joke but this did it for me.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

I'll never understand why people insist on bringing facts into the conversation.

 

Facts are cool, but with Football Outsiders it's always fair to ask what's under the hood and what are their metrics, because they don't always pass the "sniff test". For example, how are they handling players who are PUP or IR at the start of the season? How are they defining a "starter"? How are they handling injuries to depth players? And how are they handling situations where a player is managing a long term injury which arguably hampers their effectiveness, but isn't missing any practice or listed on the injury report?

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Is our turf a problem with injuries? I haven't played on the field house turf, but i assume its the same as the ralphs turf.

 

I've played on the ralphs field, and i don't care for it TBH. A little too spongy and sticky.

[Marv's Neighbor]

The BILLS have never recovered from losing Rusty Jones. His strength/conditioning were first rate, and we never had all these injuries when he was here.

[hondo in seattle]

 

Facts are cool, but with Football Outsiders it's always fair to ask what's under the hood and what are their metrics, because they don't always pass the "sniff test". For example, how are they handling players who are PUP or IR at the start of the season? How are they defining a "starter"? How are they handling injuries to depth players? And how are they handling situations where a player is managing a long term injury which arguably hampers their effectiveness, but isn't missing any practice or listed on the injury report?

 

All good points. But I'm not sure there's a better way to quantify the work of the trainers than by looking at AGL (adjusted games lost) like BringBackFergy and PFF did.

 

I'm sure all the doctors and trainers on the Bills staff are highly trained people who take pride in their work. If we're going to question their competency, I think we owe it to them to back up the criticisms with good solid analysis, not just a few anecdotes and general impressions.

 

I gotta admit though that the Shaq case is a little weird. Schefter seemed to have a clearer understanding of the severity of the shoulder injury than our medical staff and even Shaq himself did.

Edited May 17, 2016 by hondo in seattle

[OldTimer1960]

I gotta admit though that the Shaq case is a little weird. Schefter seemed to have a clearer understand of the severity of the shoulder injury than our medical staff and even Shaq himself did.

I would be shocked if the Bills' medical staff did not identify it as a possibility that Lawson would need surgery on his shoulder. They may have thought that he could get through the 2016 season before possibly doing surgery after the season was over, but they had to have notified the decision makers that there was a chance that Lawson might need surgery sooner rather than later.

 

With the $$$$ invested into a 1st round pick, I am sure that all their due diligence was done and they decided to go ahead with the pick anyway with the knowledge that this could happen. As long as they are confident that this is a correctable injury and not one that will chronically bother him/shorten his career then I can't fault them for making that decision - it was a risk/reward proposition, as all draft selections are.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

If this is about Lawson I'm quite sure when Lawson was drafted they knew he'd need the surgery this season. The team just didn't want to immediately sell their first round pick as a guy who might have to sit out a while. So no, I don't think we need a new medical staff.

Edited May 17, 2016 by DriveFor1Outta5

[Never NEVER Give-up]

The BILLS have never recovered from losing Rusty Jones. His strength/conditioning were first rate, and we never had all these injuries when he was here.

Agreed!!!

 

Donahoe and Mularkey fired him so Mularkey could hire a friend of his.

 

The Bears were experiencing injuries over several previous seasons, so they hired him; their injuries went down and the Bears went to the Super Bowl (lost to Colts).

I understand Rusty is retired - they should hire him as a consultant.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

If this is about Lawson I'm quite sure when Lawson was drafted they knew he'd need the surgery this season. The team just didn't want to immediately sell their first round pick as a guy who might have to sit out a while. So no, I don't think we need a new medical staff.

 

You could be correct. But in that case, Whaley is deservedly living in a falling credibility zone:

'Immediately after the Bills picked Lawson, Whaley told reporters, "Medical staff cleared him, said he can play. Now, if something happens, it’s going to happen, but it’s nothing that we’re real worried about or we wouldn’t have taken him. We got complete faith in our medical staff and they signed off on him, so we’re excited to have him."'

 

It's about Lawson, but also about the way the McCoy and Aaron Williams injuries were handled last year among others.

Is our turf a problem with injuries? I haven't played on the field house turf, but i assume its the same as the ralphs turf.

 

I've played on the ralphs field, and i don't care for it TBH. A little too spongy and sticky.

 

I have wondered this myself. In general, I consider artificial turf an abomination, but I've heard that the Ralphs turf is worse than most.

 

All good points. But I'm not sure there's a better way to quantify the work of the trainers than by looking at AGL (adjusted games lost) like BringBackFergy and PFF did.

 

I'm sure all the doctors and trainers on the Bills staff are highly trained people who take pride in their work. If we're going to question their competency, I think we owe it to them to back up the criticisms with good solid analysis, not just a few anecdotes and general impressions.

 

I gotta admit though that the Shaq case is a little weird. Schefter seemed to have a clearer understanding of the severity of the shoulder injury than our medical staff and even Shaq himself did.

 

I'm sure there is a better way but I'm not sure anyone has collated the data and made it public. I think the # of injuries in training camp needs to be taken into account, as well as injuries to non-starters and somehow whether injured players come back and go out again (sign that they're being rushed back?). Sometimes statistics can give a very misleading impression, and anecdotes (eg individual cases) should not be totally dismissed.

 

The Shaq case is very weird especially in view of the Whaley quote I cited

Edited May 17, 2016 by Hopeful

[iinii]

Apparently

[3rdand12]

 

I'll never understand why people insist on bringing facts into the conversation.

really chaps my grits

and the Shaq case is worth consideration, due to it's handling.

[Coach Tuesday]

Yes. Clean house.

[BaaadThingsMan]

Their track record is pretty rough lately

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

I'll never understand why people insist on bringing facts into the conversation.

It really kills the rhetoric, pomp and circumstance... Killjoys!

 

Now... PROCEED WITH THE WITCH HUNT!!!

Edited May 17, 2016 by over 20 years of fanhood