quarterback coaching and Cardale Jones

[Commish]

How is it that CJ spends the off-season working with a QB coach - George Whitfield - who instructed him on how to step back from under center, then he gets to mini-camp and David Lee tells him that that's all wrong, he should step back another way? I don't know which coach is right, but I would have thought there would be some agreement as to a basic QB skill such as this. Now CJ has to unlearn a technique he just learned. And, who know what techniques he was taught at OSU, then at high school before that.

 

Is there agreement among QB coaches as to technique - seems not. A little scary, given that David Lee doesn't seem to have a record as a quarterback whisperer.

[simpleman]

Interesting question. I admit I don't know the history of George Whitfield or David Lee as far as successes in developing a winning NFL QB. I can see where they worked on a search, but not what QB they have developed.

Can anyone tell me why Lee is considered a "good" coach? Who are his successes in the NFL? I know he has been with the Bills and the Jets the past few years, neither of which have had a star QB. His record? I can only think of EJ & Geno.

I'm not slamming him, I'm asking the more knowledgeable here what his successes are VS his failures. Is there a reason he is considered better than Whitfield. Or is it simply because he is the QB coach of the Bills and if you want to play for the Bills you do what he says.

And also why is the Jones step back considered a bad training technique used by Whitfield? I'm not arguing it, I'm asking why it is considered a bad technique?

[Captain_Quint]

Lee helped Steve DeBerg install a beautiful rock garden in his yard, but that was awhile ago. Not sure what successes he has recently though.

[dayman]

Not that technique isn't important but no QB ever failed or succeeded b/c of a drop back. In the end you can feel the game and throw guys open or not.

Edited May 11, 2016 by dayman

[KDIGGZ]

Not that technique isn't important but no QB ever failed or succeeded b/c of a drop back. In the end you can feel the game and throw guys open or not.

it is actually a big aspect of the nfl game and plenty of qb's have failed because they couldn't play from under center. it would benefit Cardale to forget what he has been taught and do what Lee says because at the end of the day they are going to ask the coach if he's ready to play and if he says no then he doesn't get on the field

[Lofton80]

Johnny Football is prominently mentioned on his website.

 

 

whitfieldathletix.com/alumni

[Malazan]

Johnny Football is prominently mentioned on his website.

 

 

whitfieldathletix.com/alumni

 

as a success?

[John from Riverside]

Not that technique isn't important but no QB ever failed or succeeded b/c of a drop back. In the end you can feel the game and throw guys open or not.

Taking a snap from under center has a huge part in a QB's mechanics......

 

But

 

They should have learned some of this stuff from High School and College

[simpleman]

Johnny Football is prominently mentioned on his website.

 

 

whitfieldathletix.com/alumni

Thank you for the link on Whitfield. Obviously his association was probably brief and I doubt he was the only one responsible for their success, but he has worked with a lot of talented QBs. So he does have a decent resume.

 

Donovan McNabb, Ben Roethlisberger, Jameis Winston, Andrew Luck, Cam Newton

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Interesting question. I admit I don't know the history of George Whitfield or David Lee as far as successes in developing a winning NFL QB. I can see where they worked on a search, but not what QB they have developed.

Can anyone tell me why Lee is considered a "good" coach? Who are his successes in the NFL? I know he has been with the Bills and the Jets the past few years, neither of which have had a star QB. His record? I can only think of EJ & Geno.

I'm not slamming him, I'm asking the more knowledgeable here what his successes are VS his failures. Is there a reason he is considered better than Whitfield. Or is it simply because he is the QB coach of the Bills and if you want to play for the Bills you do what he says.

And also why is the Jones step back considered a bad training technique used by Whitfield? I'm not arguing it, I'm asking why it is considered a bad technique?

 

Looks like someone responded about Whitfield.

 

Here's Lee's coaching history and the QBs he worked with as far as I can tell.

2005-2006 Cowboys QB coach and offensive assistant. Bledsoe, Romo (2004 was Romo's rookie year, 2006 his first year as a starter)

2007 - U Arkansas, gotta let a college football afficionado tell you who were the QBs

2008-2010 Miami Dolphins QB coach Pennington, Henne, Moore. "Offensive Innovator of the Year" for introducing the "Wildcat" which .....has curled up on the NFL hearth rug for a nap. Nice kitty.

2011 Ole Miss OC. See 2007 Arkansas.

2012 Bills. Fitzpatrick, who appeared to regress badly that year. Had better years in Tenn, Houston, and NYJ. Credits Bill O'Brien for helping him, doesn't say a word about Lee.

2013-2014 Jets. Geno Smith. Well, all righty then.

2015 Bills. Taylor. Comments are out there about Taylor's eyes and feet not matching what's developing downfield.

 

Bottom line he may be a great QB coach but I'm not sure you can prove it by pointing to the top notch NFL QB he has developed. Maybe Romo?

 

I don't think the left foot "cheat step" is considered a bad technique, it's just not the technique Lee wants Cardale Jones to use, or perhaps not in the way he's using it - maybe he's taking too big of a step and he's not balanced or something? It may be one of those "potayto, potahto" things where there are different ways to do things and coaches have preferences.

[Just in Atlanta]

Johnny Football is prominently mentioned on his website.

 

 

whitfieldathletix.com/alumni

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Taking a snap from under center has a huge part in a QB's mechanics......

 

But

 

They should have learned some of this stuff from High School and College

 

not in the spread

[jr1]

if you don't get private lessons before the draft you're "unmotivated" but they make you unlearn it so why bother

[simpleman]

 

Looks like someone responded about Whitfield.

 

Here's Lee's coaching history and the QBs he worked with as far as I can tell.

2005-2006 Cowboys QB coach and offensive assistant. Bledsoe, Romo (2004 was Romo's rookie year, 2006 his first year as a starter)

2007 - U Arkansas, gotta let a college football afficionado tell you who were the QBs

2008-2010 Miami Dolphins QB coach Pennington, Henne, Moore. "Offensive Innovator of the Year" for introducing the "Wildcat" which .....has curled up on the NFL hearth rug for a nap. Nice kitty.

2011 Ole Miss OC. See 2007 Arkansas.

2012 Bills. Fitzpatrick, who appeared to regress badly that year. Had better years in Tenn, Houston, and NYJ. Credits Bill O'Brien for helping him, doesn't say a word about Lee.

2013-2014 Jets. Geno Smith. Well, all righty then.

2015 Bills. Taylor. Comments are out there about Taylor's eyes and feet not matching what's developing downfield.

 

Bottom line he may be a great QB coach but I'm not sure you can prove it by pointing to the top notch NFL QB he has developed. Maybe Romo?

 

I don't think the left foot "cheat step" is considered a bad technique, it's just not the technique Lee wants Cardale Jones to use, or perhaps not in the way he's using it - maybe he's taking too big of a step and he's not balanced or something? It may be one of those "potayto, potahto" things where there are different ways to do things and coaches have preferences.

Thanks for the info. I guess a great or even good QB coach is not an obvious designation, unless maybe the QBs they have worked with become great QBs and specifically mention them by name for their help at becoming great.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

How is it that CJ spends the off-season working with a QB coach - George Whitfield - who instructed him on how to step back from under center, then he gets to mini-camp and David Lee tells him that that's all wrong, he should step back another way? I don't know which coach is right, but I would have thought there would be some agreement as to a basic QB skill such as this. Now CJ has to unlearn a technique he just learned. And, who know what techniques he was taught at OSU, then at high school before that.

 

Is there agreement among QB coaches as to technique - seems not. A little scary, given that David Lee doesn't seem to have a record as a quarterback whisperer.

I had the same thought. Then these young guys over their career start hearing the conflicting opinions and are retaught then untaught. Must be extremely obnoxious

[iinii]

Johnny Football is prominently mentioned on his website.

 

 

whitfieldathletix.com/alumni

There is a ringing endorsement

[#34fan]

Dave Lee is a HORRIBLE quarterbacks coach... I'm no fan of Whitfield's, but Lee is an absolute HACK.... Pennington... Fitz.... Geno.... Plus some of the other names mentioned in this thread... None of whom really stand out as success stories... Under Lee the Ole Miss program stagnated in 2011, racking up just 2 wins on the season and ZERO conquests in the SEC... IMO he is strichnine to young QB's and should be replaced.

 

Now, for the good news: Cardale Jones has a stronger personality, and will to win than ANY of the aforementioned QB's.... Perhaps even strong enough to overcome the lousy coaching he'll no doubt receive from this staff... It's his greatest asset.... As far as someone who should be mentoring young Cardale (and EJ, and Tyrod) -My pick is none other than David Garrard... A veteran who's had some notable success, and some disappointing failures... Not exactly a stellar career, but Garrard was a wily vet who made A LOT of plays when it mattered most... He also knew how to put together a decent drive.

 

I'd fire Lee tomorrow, if I could.

Edited May 15, 2016 by #34fan

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Dave Lee is a HORRIBLE quarterbacks coach... I'm no fan of Whitfield's, but Lee is an absolute HACK.... Pennington... Fitz.... Geno.... Plus some of the other names mentioned in this thread... None of whom really stand out as success stories... Under Lee the Ole Miss program stagnated in 2011, racking up just 2 wins on the season and ZERO conquests in the SEC... IMO he is strichnine to young QB's and should be replaced.

 

Now, for the good news: Cardale Jones has a stronger personality, and will to win than ANY of the aforementioned QB's.... Perhaps even strong enough to overcome the lousy coaching he'll no doubt receive from this staff... It's his greatest asset.... As far as someone who should be mentoring young Cardale (and EJ, and Tyrod) -My pick is none other than David Garrard... A veteran who's had some notable success, and some disappointing failures... Not exactly a stellar career, but Garrard was a wily vet who made A LOT of plays when it mattered most... He also knew how to put together a decent drive.

 

I'd fire Lee tomorrow, if I could.

 

I really liked Garrard as a QB. I thought he had some tough luck early, being drafted as the QB-in-waiting then a new GM drafting Leftwich and being kind of mired in a QB controversy. I admire him - he has Crohn's disease and had a major operation to remove a chunk of intestine one summer and played that season. He tried to play through a herniated disc and other injuries.

 

What I don't know, is would Garrard be a good coach? He had some humdinger awful games in his career.

 

So my questions to you are:

1) why do you believe Garrard would be a good QB coach? A guy who can do, can't always teach. What do you know or see in him that you feel would make him a good teacher? I didn't see him as a guy noted for pristine technique or exceptional decision making, although a lot of the time he was trying to survive behind a horrid OL and head-scratching coaching.

2) why do you believe Lee is a horrible QB coach? Yes, he's coached some mediocre QB, but what leads you to say he's a hack and horrible?

 

I don't have strong beliefs either way, though I have some skepticism on Lee based on Fitz apparent regression under Lee and Geno's lack of improvement. The Ole Miss program stagnating, if Lee is the OC can you hang up QB problems to him? I'd just like to know what you see.

[Go-Bills]

i'm sure CJ will benfit from lee's coaching but i agree with Dayman an earlier post, he has to feel the game and throw a receiver open! what every great QB does. I think he can develop into a great QB if he can do that! as would EJ if he could do that but obviously can't.

[#34fan]

 

I really liked Garrard as a QB. I thought he had some tough luck early, being drafted as the QB-in-waiting then a new GM drafting Leftwich and being kind of mired in a QB controversy. I admire him - he has Crohn's disease and had a major operation to remove a chunk of intestine one summer and played that season. He tried to play through a herniated disc and other injuries.

 

What I don't know, is would Garrard be a good coach? He had some humdinger awful games in his career.

 

So my questions to you are:

1) why do you believe Garrard would be a good QB coach? A guy who can do, can't always teach. What do you know or see in him that you feel would make him a good teacher? I didn't see him as a guy noted for pristine technique or exceptional decision making, although a lot of the time he was trying to survive behind a horrid OL and head-scratching coaching.

2) why do you believe Lee is a horrible QB coach? Yes, he's coached some mediocre QB, but what leads you to say he's a hack and horrible?

 

I don't have strong beliefs either way, though I have some skepticism on Lee based on Fitz apparent regression under Lee and Geno's lack of improvement. The Ole Miss program stagnating, if Lee is the OC can you hang up QB problems to him? I'd just like to know what you see.

 

I saw a terrific leader on the field with David Garrard... He also posessed a similar skill set to ALL our current QB's... Strong-armed, Mobile and Athletic... TWO things impressed me most about Garrard... One was his incredible field vision... The guy made fabulous throws, and extended plays on a rather routine basis... Even with the miserable O-lines he had at spots in his carreer...

 

The second thing I like about Garrard was that he did not shrink away in big games.. He typically played the Colts tough, and was a headache to contain even for good defenses... Upon retirement, Garrard was actually offered a coaching internship with the Jets, who wanted him in position where he could mentor Geno... This, by the way, happened under Dave Lee's tenure with NYJ.

 

Bottom line: The insight of someone who actually played, and succeeded at the position can't be substituted. Not even with the best of coaches... As important as footwork is, It's also critical for rookies to grasp thought process, and preparation... I've never seen a superbowl won purely on great mechanics.

 

As far as Lee goes, I'm not buying in... There's just very little evidence of him being able to deliver a high-grade product at QB... After 39 years of coaching, there should be... And YES, as the OC of the 2011 Ole Mis Rebels, he's responsible for them being outscored 110 to 13 in their final 3 games... Let him stay, if you want... But bring in Garrard, as a vet these kids can actually learn from.

Edited May 15, 2016 by #34fan