Kirby Jackson Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) You are missing the point. What's right for the Pats isn't necessarily right for the Bills. The Pats are willing to spend more money than other teams for this player because they are a good cap position to do so. A team that is a SB contending team without a doubt has a different calculation when analyzing a possible deal. You are making the assumption that Peterson was a better fit than Gillis was for the Pats. I say this with no intention of belittling your judgment but I would take BB's judgment over yours. I am definitely making that assumption. Adrian Peterson led the league in rushing in 2015 (his last healthy season). He also has about 12,000 career rushing yards and 100 TDs. He is the best RB of his generation. Mike Gillislee has 865 career rushing yards. He has 154 career carries (Peterson has 8 different seasons of more). We are talking about 1 to 2 year deals (not 6). If the Patriots think that Mike Gillislee is a better short-term option as the between the tackles runner than Adrian Peterson than I am questioning their judgement (not to mention MG was more expensive and cost a 5th round pick). Edited April 25, 2017 by Kirby Jackson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I am definitely making that assumption. Adrian Peterson led the league in rushing in 2015 (his last healthy season).He also has about 12,000 career rushing yards and 100 TDs. He is the best RB of his generation. Mike Gillislee has 865 career rushing yards. He has 154 career carries (Peterson has 8 different seasons of more). We are talking about 1 to 2 year deals (not 6). If the Patriots think that Mike Gillislee is a better option as the between the tackles runner than Adrian Peterson than I am questioning their judgement (not to mention MG was more expensive and cost a 5th round pick). AP can't catch the ball and can't operate out of shotgun. He is not a great fit for that offense. He's also old, has a lot of wear and tear, and is a bit of a PR risk for a team that hates distractions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 AP can't catch the ball and can't operate out of shotgun. He is not a great fit for that offense. He's also old, has a lot of wear and tear, and is a bit of a PR risk for a team that hates distractions. Yes, Gilly is quite the receiving threat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 You are missing the point. What's right for the Pats isn't necessarily right for the Bills. The Pats are willing to spend more money than other teams for this player because they are a good cap position to do so. A team that is a SB contending team without a doubt has a different calculation when analyzing a possible deal. You are making the assumption that Peterson was a better fit than Gillis was for the Pats. I say this with no intention of belittling your judgment but I would take BB's judgment over yours. I hope so BB is amazing at the personnel side as well as coaching. He certainly isn't perfect. Back to the first line in your post though "What's right for the Pats isn't necessarily right for the Bills." We 100% agree on that. So paying a RB who will see about 100 touches 4 million dollars isn't right for the Bills. Couldn't this move be "right" for both teams? The Pats are in a great position with the salary cap because players will take less to play for them. There aren't a lot of guys willing to do that for Buffalo. Brady takes less to improve the team around him, he also makes middling players look better. The Bills giving 4 million to Gilly would be a terrible move imo and a waste of cap space. As for the last part I am simply stating if the shoe was on the other foot Whaley would be crucified for this move. If all of the factors line up people wouldn't care if Peterson was a better fit. This would be brought up every time his performance was discussed. My original post was just to say that you can't call out Kirby for making up his mind on it when you have done so yourself. You think it is a great move in large part because of who executed it but a great move none the less. I don't feel the same mainly because he is a backup rb that they found as a street fa. Losing him doesn't move my needle because he replaced Karlos who also did the same and is now out of the league. Perhaps Williams can do the same or another player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I am definitely making that assumption. Adrian Peterson led the league in rushing in 2015 (his last healthy season). He also has about 12,000 career rushing yards and 100 TDs. He is the best RB of his generation. Mike Gillislee has 865 career rushing yards. He has 154 career carries (Peterson has 8 different seasons of more). We are talking about 1 to 2 year deals (not 6). If the Patriots think that Mike Gillislee is a better short-term option as the between the tackles runner than Adrian Peterson than I am questioning their judgement (not to mention MG was more expensive and cost a 5th round pick). AP also fumbled 7 times in 2015, which is the last time he took any serious amount of carries. BB loves ball security, Peterson has one of the highest fumble totals I have ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Maybe I'm the crazy one but I am comfortable assuming: Adrian Peterson, $500K, 5th round pick > Mike Gillislee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I never once said that the deal wouldn't work out for the Patriots. In fact, I think he will do well there. My point is, that they had a better, less expensive option. If you are asking about the Chandler deal feel free to go through this board at that time. There were LOTS of people that expected that. He caught a TD in his first game too. You'd have thought that Gronk was cloned. The last part is kind of my point. They make tons of terrible decisions (Yolo just mentioned another). They are masked by the machine that they have created and Brady. Bad decisions don't damage them in ways that they do other teams but that doesn't make them good decisions. At some point (post Brady) those decisions will catch up. The Pats are in a good financial situation where paying more than what other teams would for Gillis has little negative repercussions for what they want to do with their roster. They wanted this particular player and they got him, just as they wanted Cook and also got him. They made their own calculations and analysis and then executed their plan. There isn't a team in the league that is more exacting when making a financial decision on contracts. They are brutally cold blooded when making a cap decision. So again, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt on Gillis and his contract. With respect to the Chandler deal I don't care what others have said about him going to New England. There are people who believe that TT is the second coming of Steve Young. The Chandler deal was a marginal deal for them for a marginal player. You know that as well as I do regardless of what some of the doomsday fanatics proclaim. As far as the Pats making mistakes---yes they do make plenty of mistakes. I don't know of a franchise that doesn't make many. I have said it before and I will say it again I have nothing but admiration for how the Pats operate. In a system designed for parity where winners are supposed to be penalized for the benefit of losers they have had a remarkable run. And the flip side is Buffalo. A record that is embarrassing and humiliating. I am definitely making that assumption. Adrian Peterson led the league in rushing in 2015 (his last healthy season). He also has about 12,000 career rushing yards and 100 TDs. He is the best RB of his generation. Mike Gillislee has 865 career rushing yards. He has 154 career carries (Peterson has 8 different seasons of more). We are talking about 1 to 2 year deals (not 6). If the Patriots think that Mike Gillislee is a better short-term option as the between the tackles runner than Adrian Peterson than I am questioning their judgement (not to mention MG was more expensive and cost a 5th round pick). The Pats will utilize Gillislee in a manner in which his talents will be maximized. He would not be used in the same manner as Peterson would be if he was on their roster. Peterson is one of the greatest running backs in the history of the game. That is obvious. That doesn't mean that the past production will translate into the present and future production. I don't understand your position. The Pats made a judgment on who is the best player at an acceptable price for their system. Believing that Gillis is more suited for what they want doesn't diminish what Peterson is or was. They just came to a different conclusion than what you come to. For an organization that has been the most successful organization in the game for more than a generation I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted April 25, 2017 Author Share Posted April 25, 2017 @SInow Dalvin Cook's off-the-field problems trace back to middle school. Part his doing, part environment and part sabotage http://on.si.com/2oJ7hoX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I do think Peterson is less effective from the gun and that reduces some of New England's flexibility when they go hurry up and that is probably why he isn't a Patriot. The other factor that people shouldn't discount in this is Belichick taking a player off a divisional rival. It isn't just that the Patriots have Gillislee it is that the Bills don't. The two headed monster that teams struggled to contain last year now has a head missing. Belichick is the most calculating coach in the league. Would not surprise me one bit if Ernie Adams has an algorithm that says Buffalo's offensive production will reduce by X if Gillislee isn't there and that factored into their decision. I know everyone will laugh at that and say "pah Belichick isn't worried about the Bills" but he calculates everything. Nothing is left to chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I do think Peterson is less effective from the gun and that reduces some of New England's flexibility when they go hurry up and that is probably why he isn't a Patriot. The other factor that people shouldn't discount in this is Belichick taking a player off a divisional rival. It isn't just that the Patriots have Gillislee it is that the Bills don't. The two headed monster that teams struggled to contain last year now has a head missing. Belichick is the most calculating coach in the league. Would not surprise me one bit if Ernie Adams has an algorithm that says Buffalo's offensive production will reduce by X if Gillislee isn't there and that factored into their decision. I know everyone will laugh at that and say "pah Belichick isn't worried about the Bills" but he calculates everything. Nothing is left to chance. Great point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 My original post was just to say that you can't call out Kirby for making up his mind on it when you have done so yourself. You think it is a great move in large part because of who executed it but a great move none the less. I don't feel the same mainly because he is a backup rb that they found as a street fa. Losing him doesn't move my needle because he replaced Karlos who also did the same and is now out of the league. Perhaps Williams can do the same or another player? With respect to calling out Kirby what is wrong with that? I do it often. He can handle it. He's Cajun tough. It's my god given right to call him out until he agrees with me on the qb issue. Until then I will be unyielding! With your next point that I consider the Gillis move a great move because it was done by BB is well off the mark. I don't consider it a great move but I do consider it a good move. As I said before I have no criticism for Buffalo's decision, and have no criticism for the Pats decision. Each organization has to make their own calculation for what is right for them. It's as simple as that. In addition, am I going to give the most successful organization in the modern era of football the benefit of the doubt on their transactions? Absolutely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I do think Peterson is less effective from the gun and that reduces some of New England's flexibility when they go hurry up and that is probably why he isn't a Patriot. The other factor that people shouldn't discount in this is Belichick taking a player off a divisional rival. It isn't just that the Patriots have Gillislee it is that the Bills don't. The two headed monster that teams struggled to contain last year now has a head missing. Belichick is the most calculating coach in the league. Would not surprise me one bit if Ernie Adams has an algorithm that says Buffalo's offensive production will reduce by X if Gillislee isn't there and that factored into their decision. I know everyone will laugh at that and say "pah Belichick isn't worried about the Bills" but he calculates everything. Nothing is left to chance. Ernie Adams was doing analytics in football before anyone knew what that was. I wish the Bills had high end thinkers in the organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I will try to be clear and concise because I haven't been and I want this thread to return where it is supposed to be. - I think that MG makes the Pats better. He will succeed there. - I am okay with the Bills not matching (I probably would have). - I don't think that it is a good business or football decision to pay $500k more and surrender a 5th round pick for MG instead of signing Peterson. The Patriots are looking for someone to fill the Blount role (again no pun intended). How soon we forget that Blount caught 13 balls in the last 2 years combined!!! Peterson caught 30 in his last healthy season so let's no act like they are taking a step back there. - They added Cooks and Dwayne Allen. Cooks will take a good bit of Bennett's targets while Allen is there for the running game. They don't need another pass catching back. They have White, Lewis AND Burkhead. They need a runner. There is no one that can make an argument that MG is a better runner than AP. - If any other team made the decision that they made (and they did have a choice) they would be crushed. The Patriots shouldn't be immune to that criticism because they have Brady. Just like Kiki Mingo was a bad decision this is too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Maybe I'm the crazy one but I am comfortable assuming: Adrian Peterson, $500K, 5th round pick > Mike Gillislee But the Cheater always likes to stick it to us. His ego gets him sometimes. I wish it was more and would be his downfall, but the %$#&^% seems to be able to get by with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P51 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Good stuff man! Thanks, really wanted to get through a 100 ranked but not going to have the time. 1/3 are DBs and my loose back 50 has had between 8 and 12 more with mostly 2nd and 3rd round grades, crazy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 @billsfanaticsBF Report: Bills interested in Northern Colorado QB Kyle Sloter -- #BuffaloBills #BillsFanatics #BillsMafia #OneBuffalo https://www.instagram.com/p/BTUewY1hmM-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P51 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) How many first round corners now? Over under at 4? Edited April 25, 2017 by P51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Was out for a bit, has anyone see this yet? WGR 550Verified account @WGR550 3h3 hours ago WGR 550 Retweeted Cian Fahey Cian Fahey joins the program next! Cian FaheyVerified account @Cianaf The Bills have no WRs, an old RB, gaping hole at right tackle and a defense that needs to be rebuilt, yet they're gonna move up for a QB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Was out for a bit, has anyone see this yet? WGR 550Verified account @WGR550 3h3 hours ago WGR 550 Retweeted Cian Fahey Cian Fahey joins the program next! Cian FaheyVerified account @Cianaf The Bills have no WRs, an old RB, gaping hole at right tackle and a defense that needs to be rebuilt, yet they're gonna move up for a QB! i listened to the interview. He didn't say they were going to move up, but he thinks they could. He just didn't like any of the QBs to do it for except Trubisky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 i listened to the interview. He didn't say they were going to move up, but he thinks they could. He just didn't like any of the QBs to do it for except Trubisky. Well he has a hard on for Trubisky...Thanks dude; I was wondering if someone had a listen! Greg Gabriel @greggabe 2m2 minutes ago I had Reddick as a late 1 early 2. I was wrong. Last night I was told mid teens, today possible top 10. A GM said "he's a freak" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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