What Front Do We Run?

[Dorkington]

Our personnel still says 4-3 to me... I'm feeling dumb 😐

[KOKBILLS]

Our personnel still says 4-3 to me... I'm feeling dumb

 

I read an article not too long ago about Rex's D when he was still in NY...And to summarize he plays just about every front anyone can imagine...then a few...

[boyst]

Not going in to detail yet because this is frustrating as hell. i get drafting bpa and that's how i prefer to draft but we're cluster f'ing ourself and knowing ryan i'm not sure we have a plan. we're just going to throw **** at the field and hope it works. ryan's philosophy in new jersey - where he had 6-8 first rounders on defense in his best years.

right now i just can't imagine how we most effectively use the talent we have to create a front which puts the best talent in the positions they are most likely to succeed. it's a !@#$ing nightmare. those who have seen my defensive write ups know i prefer to have the best 11 players on the field for defense and cater to their abilities to create a scheme.

i just can't do that right now.

maybe i could put brown at weakside linebacker? i don't think shaq lawson is capable of playing will. we need a will more than anything. that's why i thought lee would be a much better pick as a jack and let us play brown outside. again... i must pause and say i don't know what the hell ryan plans to do but i promise it will be fully pregnant again.

so trying this approach. the obvious top talents:

dareus

hughes

kyle williams

darby

gilmore

a williams

shaq lawson

that's 5 defensive lineman amd jerry hughes, 2 CB's and a safety.

next:

ragland

wynn

graham

preston brown

Washington

that's 2 linebackers and a dl and a safety. wynn and ragland are of equal value to this team in my mind as both are one dimensional. Washington is rotational depth @ NT/DT

so piece it together we have 4 dl and call hughes an lb, giving us 3 lbs and 2 safeties with 2 cb's.

with LB:

Mike: Ragland

Jack: Brown

Will: Hughes

Sam: Lawson

Then, i look and only see this as obvious positional placement...

Strong side DE: Lawson

that leaves us creating a space and a role for dareus, kyle williams - neither one of them good enough to contain the run and williams especially vulnerable to being pushed inside - dareus not as much, but it'll happen to him too. kyle williams in the 0-3 gap is alright. dareus outside of the 3 to the 5, hiding inside the tackle shading the OG... doesn't sound awful. but for depth, i'm not sure wynn can sustain quality playing so closely and having to close contain meaning we have to bank on ragland closing the box quickly. his run diagnosis need to be top notch and he needs to understand his role in this defense. not sure he can - rex ryan's **** is difficult.

either way... i am more concerned with our defense for 2016 than i was 36 hours ago.

i don't see the ability to cover the flat and tight ends. i don't see the ability to cover the slot in base defense. and i can be told over and over again we run nickel. and we do, but how many times were we caught with pants down in base d when we needed nickel because rex ryan is an idiot?

...yeah.

in nickel, that's where i am terrified. your only option is to remove ragland. which is just stupid to remove a player drafted in the 2nd round with an old kyle williams and old manny lawson stay on the field. and since rex doesn't like robey i imagine blanton comes in - which than creates blanton playing like bryan scott did years ago as a hyrbid safety mike. that didn't work then, it won't work with blanton. we know he can't cover and we know he's small. darron lee at 6'1, 232 would have been a much better option than blanton who is 35 lbs. lighter.

either way. i am just baffled at what rex ryan will abort on the field.

 

I read an article not too long ago about Rex's D when he was still in NY...And to summarize he plays just about every front anyone can imagine...then a few...

he plays them but he can't succeed with them...

[KOKBILLS]

 

Not going in to detail yet because this is frustrating as hell. i get drafting bpa and that's how i prefer to draft but we're cluster f'ing ourself and knowing ryan i'm not sure we have a plan. we're just going to throw **** at the field and hope it works. ryan's philosophy in new jersey - where he had 6-8 first rounders on defense in his best years.

right now i just can't imagine how we most effectively use the talent we have to create a front which puts the best talent in the positions they are most likely to succeed. it's a !@#$ing nightmare. those who have seen my defensive write ups know i prefer to have the best 11 players on the field for defense and cater to their abilities to create a scheme.

i just can't do that right now.

maybe i could put brown at weakside linebacker? i don't think shaq lawson is capable of playing will. we need a will more than anything. that's why i thought lee would be a much better pick as a jack and let us play brown outside. again... i must pause and say i don't know what the hell ryan plans to do but i promise it will be fully pregnant again.

so trying this approach. the obvious top talents:

dareus

hughes

kyle williams

darby

gilmore

a williams

shaq lawson

that's 5 defensive lineman amd jerry hughes, 2 CB's and a safety.

next:

ragland

wynn

graham

preston brown

Washington

that's 2 linebackers and a dl and a safety. wynn and ragland are of equal value to this team in my mind as both are one dimensional. Washington is rotational depth @ NT/DT

so piece it together we have 4 dl and call hughes an lb, giving us 3 lbs and 2 safeties with 2 cb's.

with LB:

Mike: Ragland

Jack: Brown

Will: Hughes

Sam: Lawson

Then, i look and only see this as obvious positional placement...

Strong side DE: Lawson

that leaves us creating a space and a role for dareus, kyle williams - neither one of them good enough to contain the run and williams especially vulnerable to being pushed inside - dareus not as much, but it'll happen to him too. kyle williams in the 0-3 gap is alright. dareus outside of the 3 to the 5, hiding inside the tackle shading the OG... doesn't sound awful. but for depth, i'm not sure wynn can sustain quality playing so closely and having to close contain meaning we have to bank on ragland closing the box quickly. his run diagnosis need to be top notch and he needs to understand his role in this defense. not sure he can - rex ryan's **** is difficult.

either way... i am more concerned with our defense for 2016 than i was 36 hours ago.

i don't see the ability to cover the flat and tight ends. i don't see the ability to cover the slot in base defense. and i can be told over and over again we run nickel. and we do, but how many times were we caught with pants down in base d when we needed nickel because rex ryan is an idiot?

...yeah.

in nickel, that's where i am terrified. your only option is to remove ragland. which is just stupid to remove a player drafted in the 2nd round with an old kyle williams and old manny lawson stay on the field. and since rex doesn't like robey i imagine blanton comes in - which than creates blanton playing like bryan scott did years ago as a hyrbid safety mike. that didn't work then, it won't work with blanton. we know he can't cover and we know he's small. darron lee at 6'1, 232 would have been a much better option than blanton who is 35 lbs. lighter.

either way. i am just baffled at what rex ryan will abort on the field.

he plays them but he can't succeed with them...

 

 

FWIW...Whaley said Ragland Will, Preston Brown Mike in his Presser...He defended Ragland's ability to play the Will pretty strongly...Part of why he said they would have taken him at #19...

[Virgil]

I don't know **** about playbooks besides what I see in madden, but imagine this 5-2.

 

Lawson - Williams - Dareus - Washington - Hughes

Brown - Ragland

Gilmore - Graham - Williams - Darby

 

That's 1 on 1 coverage for each lineman. You would have to keep someone back to block and help out, needing less WR's to cover. And if you spread us out, Our safeties are converted DB's, we press, mix up which OLB and LB will cover, and still come at you with 5.

 

Against the run or getting pressure, that's terrifying no matter how badly Rex tries to mess it up.

 

Even in a 4-3 or 4-2-5, if we can't get pressure with 4 of those 5 lineman with added LB or CB coverage, we have problems

Edited April 30, 2016 by FireRex

[Marty McFly]

 

Joe Buscaglia ‏@JoeBuscaglia 2m2 minutes ago

Whaley said he expects Washington, Dareus, and Kyle Williams to be versatile and play all three positions on the D-line.

 

I could see that happening, ideally letting Washington hit the weight room to build strength for NFL double teams and O Line beasts.

I would like to see Shaq, Williams, Washington/Barnes, Dareus, Hughes as our 3-4 front 5 with Ragland and P Brown at the MLB spots, with the obvious in 2ndary.

 

 

Not going in to detail yet because this is frustrating as hell. i get drafting bpa and that's how i prefer to draft but we're cluster f'ing ourself and knowing ryan i'm not sure we have a plan. we're just going to throw **** at the field and hope it works. ryan's philosophy in new jersey - where he had 6-8 first rounders on defense in his best years.

right now i just can't imagine how we most effectively use the talent we have to create a front which puts the best talent in the positions they are most likely to succeed. it's a !@#$ing nightmare. those who have seen my defensive write ups know i prefer to have the best 11 players on the field for defense and cater to their abilities to create a scheme.

i just can't do that right now.

maybe i could put brown at weakside linebacker? i don't think shaq lawson is capable of playing will. we need a will more than anything. that's why i thought lee would be a much better pick as a jack and let us play brown outside. again... i must pause and say i don't know what the hell ryan plans to do but i promise it will be fully pregnant again.

so trying this approach. the obvious top talents:

dareus

hughes

kyle williams

darby

gilmore

a williams

shaq lawson

that's 5 defensive lineman amd jerry hughes, 2 CB's and a safety.

next:

ragland

wynn

graham

preston brown

Washington

that's 2 linebackers and a dl and a safety. wynn and ragland are of equal value to this team in my mind as both are one dimensional. Washington is rotational depth @ NT/DT

so piece it together we have 4 dl and call hughes an lb, giving us 3 lbs and 2 safeties with 2 cb's.

with LB:

Mike: Ragland

Jack: Brown

Will: Hughes

Sam: Lawson

Then, i look and only see this as obvious positional placement...

Strong side DE: Lawson

that leaves us creating a space and a role for dareus, kyle williams - neither one of them good enough to contain the run and williams especially vulnerable to being pushed inside - dareus not as much, but it'll happen to him too. kyle williams in the 0-3 gap is alright. dareus outside of the 3 to the 5, hiding inside the tackle shading the OG... doesn't sound awful. but for depth, i'm not sure wynn can sustain quality playing so closely and having to close contain meaning we have to bank on ragland closing the box quickly. his run diagnosis need to be top notch and he needs to understand his role in this defense. not sure he can - rex ryan's **** is difficult.

either way... i am more concerned with our defense for 2016 than i was 36 hours ago.

i don't see the ability to cover the flat and tight ends. i don't see the ability to cover the slot in base defense. and i can be told over and over again we run nickel. and we do, but how many times were we caught with pants down in base d when we needed nickel because rex ryan is an idiot?

...yeah.

in nickel, that's where i am terrified. your only option is to remove ragland. which is just stupid to remove a player drafted in the 2nd round with an old kyle williams and old manny lawson stay on the field. and since rex doesn't like robey i imagine blanton comes in - which than creates blanton playing like bryan scott did years ago as a hyrbid safety mike. that didn't work then, it won't work with blanton. we know he can't cover and we know he's small. darron lee at 6'1, 232 would have been a much better option than blanton who is 35 lbs. lighter.

either way. i am just baffled at what rex ryan will abort on the field.

he plays them but he can't succeed with them...

 

 

For nickel I imagine they go Shaq Dareus Hughes on the front 3. then Ragland P Brown and Z Brown(lined up on the TE or Slot or whoever the best 4th receiving option is). with Gilmore, Darby, Robey covering the top 3 WR/TE threats, and A Will and hopefully a Super Rookie or Graham or Blanton(whoever wins the job in camp) as the Safteys.

 

 

I don't know **** about playbooks besides what I see in madden, but imagine this 5-2.

 

Lawson - Williams - Dareus - Washington - Hughes

Brown - Ragland

Gilmore - Graham - Williams - Darby

 

That's 1 on 1 coverage for each lineman. You would have to keep someone back to block and help out, needing less WR's to cover. And if you spread us out, Our safeties are converted DB's, we press, mix up which OLB and LB will cover, and still come at you with 5.

 

Against the run or getting pressure, that's terrifying no matter how badly Rex tries to mess it up.

 

Even in a 4-3 or 4-2-5, if we can't get pressure with 4 of those 5 lineman with added LB or CB coverage, we have problems

Madden teaches us a lot actually. I like the line up you put out but I would put Washington at the nose and save Dareus for 3-4 DE spot in that scenario with Z Brown (our cover LB) in there instead of preston.

 

If we go 3-3-5 nickel though, I could see it being...

 

Shaq Dareus Hughes<---- thats a MEEAANN front 3

Z Brown, Ragland, P Brown<-----use Ragland to rush or QB Spy, ZBrown on their 4th best recieving option, and preston on their 5th.

Gilmore, Robey, A Will, Graham or a super rookie, and Darby on their top 3 options with the safteys being safteys.

 

 

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

5-2 lol

 

2-5!

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

I don't know **** about playbooks besides what I see in madden, but imagine this 5-2.

 

Lawson - Williams - Dareus - Washington - Hughes

Brown - Ragland

Gilmore - Graham - Williams - Darby

 

That's 1 on 1 coverage for each lineman. You would have to keep someone back to block and help out, needing less WR's to cover. And if you spread us out, Our safeties are converted DB's, we press, mix up which OLB and LB will cover, and still come at you with 5.

 

Against the run or getting pressure, that's terrifying no matter how badly Rex tries to mess it up.

 

Even in a 4-3 or 4-2-5, if we can't get pressure with 4 of those 5 lineman with added LB or CB coverage, we have problems

Now that the picks are in, this is exactly what I expect for our base set. I posted a link a while to Rob Quinn's writeup on Pettine.

 

Pettine effectively ran a 5-2, with Branch as a heavy 5 tech who could have played NT in a pinch (sounds like Washington), Dareus as a NT who played the 1 tech and switched between 1 and 2 gapping, Kyle playing the 3 tech and Mario as a move able chess piece pass rusher. On passing downs, Branch came out and Hughes came in. I'm expecting Hughes to take Mario's role, or maybe more precisely Ray Lewis: technically as a LB, but a pass rusher.

 

Manny Lawson was SLB, and he primarily played right at the line.I think we swap one Lawson for the other now. And we've confirmed Brown and Ragland as starting ILB. We have Zach and Manny for depth.

 

While technically 5-2, you can drop either Lawson or Hughes into coverage (Lawson more than Hughes). For nickel, we take Washington out, slide Lawson to 4-3 DE and have Dareus 2 gap.

 

I think I have the answer to my question.

[thebandit27]

Gives a lot of versatility. Can play SLB in 3-4 base. Can move to 5-Tech in certain packages. Played 7/9-Tech in a 4 man front.

 

Rex will be multiple, Shaq allows that. Fabulous setter of the edge.

^ this

[boyst]

I could see that happening, ideally letting Washington hit the weight room to build strength for NFL double teams and O Line beasts.

I would like to see Shaq, Williams, Washington/Barnes, Dareus, Hughes as our 3-4 front 5 with Ragland and P Brown at the MLB spots, with the obvious in 2ndary.

 

 

For nickel I imagine they go Shaq Dareus Hughes on the front 3. then Ragland P Brown and Z Brown(lined up on the TE or Slot or whoever the best 4th receiving option is). with Gilmore, Darby, Robey covering the top 3 WR/TE threats, and A Will and hopefully a Super Rookie or Graham or Blanton(whoever wins the job in camp) as the Safteys.

 

 

Madden teaches us a lot actually. I like the line up you put out but I would put Washington at the nose and save Dareus for 3-4 DE spot in that scenario with Z Brown (our cover LB) in there instead of preston.

 

If we go 3-3-5 nickel though, I could see it being...

 

Shaq Dareus Hughes<---- thats a MEEAANN front 3

Z Brown, Ragland, P Brown<-----use Ragland to rush or QB Spy, ZBrown on their 4th best recieving option, and preston on their 5th.

Gilmore, Robey, A Will, Graham or a super rookie, and Darby on their top 3 options with the safteys being safteys.

 

 

 

 

if they do that we will get destroyed running outside. we don't and can't set an edge with that group. and that's not a quick group, we will be vulnerable to quick passes and get stuck if they transition to a run.

 

manny lawson should and needs to be on the field.

[Marty McFly]

if they do that we will get destroyed running outside. we don't and can't set an edge with that group. and that's not a quick group, we will be vulnerable to quick passes and get stuck if they transition to a run.

 

manny lawson should and needs to be on the field.

they say one of Shaqs main responsibilities was setting the edge for the run but hey what do I know im Just a fan.

[boyst]

they say one of Shaqs main responsibilities was setting the edge for the run but hey what do I know im Just a fan.

if he's playing the 5-6 technique it is not going to be easy. i know his strength is setting an edge in the college but i also know this is much quicker in the nfl and am not sure he'll be fast enough to get there from the 5-6.

[TPS]

I don't know **** about playbooks besides what I see in madden, but imagine this 5-2.

 

Lawson - Williams - Dareus - Washington - Hughes

Brown - Ragland

Gilmore - Graham - Williams - Darby

 

That's 1 on 1 coverage for each lineman. You would have to keep someone back to block and help out, needing less WR's to cover. And if you spread us out, Our safeties are converted DB's, we press, mix up which OLB and LB will cover, and still come at you with 5.

 

Against the run or getting pressure, that's terrifying no matter how badly Rex tries to mess it up.

 

Even in a 4-3 or 4-2-5, if we can't get pressure with 4 of those 5 lineman with added LB or CB coverage, we have problems

Right now I think Bryant is the starter in Washington's place, as he showed to be more than capable in replacing KW.

[3rdand12]

wide 11.5

[Big Turk]

We have the option to be very, very flexible now and change from week to week very effectively to take advantage of the best matchups...Patriot style

 

FWIW...Whaley said Ragland Will, Preston Brown Mike in his Presser...He defended Ragland's ability to play the Will pretty strongly...Part of why he said they would have taken him at #19...

Whaley has been pretty phenomenal with his LB picks so I'll believe him...honestly he is turning into one of the best drafters we've had in a long time...dude hits homeruns every draft it seems

[26CornerBlitz]

5-2 lol

 

You laughed, but Rex said in essence that is what his front seven is.

[Reed83HOF]

 

You laughed, but Rex said in essence that is what his front seven is.

He sure did. Nice call by the OP

[John from Riverside]

 

You laughed, but Rex said in essence that is what his front seven is.

He actually did say that....which makes me believe it will be nothing of the sort

[26CornerBlitz]

He actually did say that....which makes me believe it will be nothing of the sort

 

You should because Hughes and Shaq are on the edges at DE/OLB.

[iinii]

it depends....down and distance.......score.......field position...time remaining............how well Roman's offense is working.....