Whaley: Does not see need for overhaul on D

[Agent 91]

 

Barbarian, see here. When we switched to a 3-4 under George Edwards/Wannstache during the Chan years, Kyle Williams played nose tackle.

And while we heard a lot of stuff about how he didn't "block enough daylight to be a nose tackle", he went to the probowl 2 of those 3 years, which is d**ned hard to do from a losing team.

Brian Galliford had a great article on Buffalo Rumblings about how he was used and why it worked, but I can't find it. I can't run all the lovely terminology :wub: off the top of my head like thebandit27 or some of our other fine posters, but the bottom line is, in those years the D had 99 problems but #95 wasn't one (neither was #99)

 

Now whether Rex would use him as a NT in a way that works with him, or in some way that doesn't use him to his full abilities, can't tell you that.

Arent kyle and mike devito about the same size? How was he used in NYJ

[thebandit27]

Arent kyle and mike devito about the same size? How was he used in NYJ

 

They're close, but not quite the same.

 

DeVito is 6'3", 305 lbs, and has almost 33" arms, whereas Kyle is a shade over 6'0", 305 lbs, and (IIRC) has 31" arms.

 

Length is incredibly important at 5-tech...and also note that DeVito was part of a historically bad run defense for the better part of 3 years in KC.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

First, I'm thrilled to hear that Aaron Williams is coming back. That is a lot off my mind.

 

I keep hearing the Dareus as a NT is a waste, but isn't that what Pettine had him doing well in 2013? I was under the impression that he was an offset one gapping NT.

 

That said, if Rex wants to go more traditional 3-4 and put Dareus at the 5 technique I could see that. Kyle is perfect at 3 technique, I can see Hughes at Jack LB/LEO. But they really would need to draft a new ILB. With the money it's going to take to keep Glenn and Incognito I don't see them winning a budding war for Bradham. I can easily see them going 1-2 with a DT and ILB.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Kyle, a player I admire, is too short to add that much weight and be able to play NFL football, let alone walk. He is also (imo), WAY too short to play DE. And sadly, KW is not getting any younger.

 

It is an unpopular stance to take here, but I think that there is no place for KW in the Ryan system. Kyle plays well as a penetrating, disruptive DT. If he wants to make the team in 2016, perhaps he can work out with Watkins in the offseason, improving his pass coverage.

 

guess rex has to go then

[BackInDaDay]

there are defensive fronts - like the 4-3 under - that can employ two penetrating 1 gap DTs.. so the 1 tech doesn't have to be a behemoth as he would have to be in a 2 gap 3-4.. we saw this plenty last season..

 

we definately won't be playing any traditional 2 gap 3-4 .. we aren't built for it.

like it or not, Rex will stay the course.. but he has to get better talent to play the LB and Safety spots

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

We need to just let it play out and see what they do.....

 

I do know this....I dont want Marcel playing the nose. He would be a ideal 5 tech

Nah he's a 3 tech all day and twice on Sunday.. He's Warren Sapp not Reggie white

[Sisyphean Bills]

He talked some about QB. The synopsis was he thinks they have two QBs now. TT and EJM are both "NFL starting caliber". EJM is a "competitor" and Whaley figures he will want to move on to compete for a starting job elsewhere. Both QBs' contracts are going into their last year. Upshot: he's interested in the QBs at the Senior Bowl and there is a certain "logic" to drafting one and developing him in-house as a precaution against losing either TT or EJM. Mentioned TT getting picked for the Pro Bowl. Proves TT is legit.

[Nitro]

I see the Bills draft bringing in a NT and LB that can start right away. Mario's departure will not be painful since he was not a factor this season.

[Dopey]

He's coming back, but what makes you think he'll last the season? Hell even 2 or 3 games?

We can say that about any NFL player.

[BuffaloBill]

Whaley has no choice but to say this as the Bills are in cap jail right now. They can only move by cutting big contracts not signing up to more of them.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

@ScottLaw:

 

Whaley said AW would have been ready for the playoffs, had we made them. Now, toss on another 6 months of physical therapy before training camp and there's good odds he's fine.

 

That said, there are no guarantees. Kiko tore an ACL working out on his own and was a shell of himself this year. But how do you plan for which players magically pop a season ending injury?

 

there are defensive fronts - like the 4-3 under - that can employ two penetrating 1 gap DTs.. so the 1 tech doesn't have to be a behemoth as he would have to be in a 2 gap 3-4.. we saw this plenty last season..

 

we definately won't be playing any traditional 2 gap 3-4 .. we aren't built for it.

like it or not, Rex will stay the course.. but he has to get better talent to play the LB and Safety spots

Yeah, the 4-3 under front is what Rex built in Baltimore. Hughes can play the 9 technique, which he's best at. Kyle can 3 tech. Dareus can play 1 tech, and play 1 or 2 gap as the situation calls. A solid 5 tech DE can come off someone like Carrington, or as a mid round pickup.

 

I'm more worried about the LBs.

[hondo in seattle]

DW is in the kitchen with Rex cooking up a stew.

 

It'll be interesting to see what they serve us fans this season.

 

Hope it's better than last year's cafeteria food.

[Rico]

He talked some about QB. The synopsis was he thinks they have two QBs now. TT and EJM are both "NFL starting caliber". EJM is a "competitor" and Whaley figures he will want to move on to compete for a starting job elsewhere. Both QBs' contracts are going into their last year. Upshot: he's interested in the QBs at the Senior Bowl and there is a certain "logic" to drafting one and developing him in-house as a precaution against losing either TT or EJM. Mentioned TT getting picked for the Pro Bowl. Proves TT is legit.

Developing a QB as a precaution against losing either TT or EJM??? So EJ might start if DW has his way, and DW may choose another EJ-caliber QB in the draft??? Nice.

[BackInDaDay]

Yeah, the 4-3 under front is what Rex built in Baltimore. Hughes can play the 9 technique, which he's best at. Kyle can 3 tech. Dareus can play 1 tech, and play 1 or 2 gap as the situation calls. A solid 5 tech DE can come off someone like Carrington, or as a mid round pickup.

 

I'm more worried about the LBs.

yep, we have the depth for multiple fronts that don't require a 2 gap NT and DE - we only have a kid named Barnes on our DL depth chart who's carrying (360) more than Darius's (314). we just aren't gonna run the traditional 3-4 some posters are trying to flesh out.

 

if we can't sign a vet LB who's experienced in such fronts, we have to hope our staff can coach up Brown to be more effective - and/or we can draft a kid from a school that employed similar defenses

 

edit- not sure about the 4-3 under being used much by Ryan in either Baltimore or NY.. there were very good 2-gap NT/DTs on those teams, but that doesn't mean he didn't let them disrupt as 1 gap defenders - considering the LBs playing in those fronts

Edited January 28, 2016 by BackInDaDay

[YoloinOhio]

yep, we have the depth for multiple fronts that don't require a 2 gap NT and DE - we only have a kid named Barnes on our DL depth chart who's carrying (360) more than Darius's (314). we just aren't gonna run the traditional 3-4 some posters are trying to flesh out.

 

if we can't sign a vet LB who's experienced in such fronts, we have to hope our staff can coach up Brown to be more effective - and/or we can draft a kid from a school that employed similar defenses

maybe they have a few strategies in mind and it will depend on what personnel group shakes out after FA and the draft

[thebandit27]

yep, we have the depth for multiple fronts that don't require a 2 gap NT and DE - we only have a kid named Barnes on our DL depth chart who's carrying (360) more than Darius's (314). we just aren't gonna run the traditional 3-4 some posters are trying to flesh out.

 

if we can't sign a vet LB who's experienced in such fronts, we have to hope our staff can coach up Brown to be more effective - and/or we can draft a kid from a school that employed similar defenses

 

I'm basing my assumption of the defense on the types of players that Rex has seemingly always had.

 

He had Kris Jenkins, Sione Pouha, and then Damon Harrison with the Jets--all 3 are traditional 2-gapping NTs.

 

Before that, he had Kelly Gregg--a 2-gapper--in Baltimore.

 

I agree that the current personnel don't fit the 2-gap scheme, but I don't see any reason to suspect that Rex will get away from it.

 

As to LB, they're going to need to draft a guy that can cover so that Brown can play more of a thumper-style role IMO. I like Josh Perry from Ohio State on Day 2 for that purpose.

[BackInDaDay]

 

I'm basing my assumption of the defense on the types of players that Rex has seemingly always had.

 

He had Kris Jenkins, Sione Pouha, and then Damon Harrison with the Jets--all 3 are traditional 2-gapping NTs.

 

Before that, he had Kelly Gregg--a 2-gapper--in Baltimore.

 

I agree that the current personnel don't fit the 2-gap scheme, but I don't see any reason to suspect that Rex will get away from it.

 

As to LB, they're going to need to draft a guy that can cover so that Brown can play more of a thumper-style role IMO. I like Josh Perry from Ohio State on Day 2 for that purpose.

sorry Bandit.. missed your post as I was editing my own. agree with where Rex has been, but getting those traditional 3-4 defenders doesn't seem doable in one offseason

[Buffalo Barbarian]

He talked some about QB. The synopsis was he thinks they have two QBs now. TT and EJM are both "NFL starting caliber". EJM is a "competitor" and Whaley figures he will want to move on to compete for a starting job elsewhere. Both QBs' contracts are going into their last year. Upshot: he's interested in the QBs at the Senior Bowl and there is a certain "logic" to drafting one and developing him in-house as a precaution against losing either TT or EJM. Mentioned TT getting picked for the Pro Bowl. Proves TT is legit.

 

boy he is just hanging on to ej for dear life

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Barbarian, see here. When we switched to a 3-4 under George Edwards/Wannstache during the Chan years, Kyle Williams played nose tackle.

And while we heard a lot of stuff about how he didn't "block enough daylight to be a nose tackle", he went to the probowl 2 of those 3 years, which is d**ned hard to do from a losing team.

Brian Galliford had a great article on Buffalo Rumblings about how he was used and why it worked, but I can't find it. I can't run all the lovely terminology :wub: off the top of my head like thebandit27 or some of our other fine posters, but the bottom line is, in those years the D had 99 problems but #95 wasn't one (neither was #99)

 

Now whether Rex would use him as a NT in a way that works with him, or in some way that doesn't use him to his full abilities, can't tell you that.

 

 

The George Edwards D was garbage and KW was intermittently bad at tying up blockers and great at running by them.

 

There was actual debate here in those days about whether KW was any good or not.......which says it all about his suitability for the NT.

 

A couple achilles jobs and a season ending knee injury later and he's going to be asked to tie up blockers again? Meh to that.

 

He's probably a better player in general than Haloti Ngata at this point but I'd swap the two in this D.

 

Yes, Ngata wasn't the nose in Baltimore, but that was more because he was a playmaker in his younger days than because he wouldn't make a very good one.

 

He's older now, less expensive and less explosive but still a giant beast that has experience in Rex D, can also man a DE and has a SB ring on his finger after playing for an organization that knew how to win.

 

The Bills have a leadership issue on D......and despite his attempts Kyle Williams hasn't been able to fill it.....perhaps in part to the fact that he is seen as a guy who's never won anything.

[Agent 91]

 

They're close, but not quite the same.

 

DeVito is 6'3", 305 lbs, and has almost 33" arms, whereas Kyle is a shade over 6'0", 305 lbs, and (IIRC) has 31" arms.

 

Length is incredibly important at 5-tech...and also note that DeVito was part of a historically bad run defense for the better part of 3 years in KC.

Ah thanks. I probably should have looked it up but i knew you would know the answer. Yeah if you are playing 2 5 technique guys Carrington would probably fit. And so would corbin bryant. I honest dont remember kyle playing zero well. I always thought he was best suited to line up in a 1 technique IF they want him to be a NT. Dareus has to play 3 in my mind to be most effective. I just dont think he is best suited to be a run defender. He should be allowed to line up with a POSSIBILITY of seeing 1 on 1 blocking. Rex has to know that the best line up is a 40 front. But may move on from K Williams AND Mario? Insanity. We are gonna have to overhaul the front 7 AGAIN and its a huge gamble seeing as we dont have a track record for coaching continuity. What happens if we go back to a 43 assuming rex is gone. Awww im gonna stop. Im getting depressed

there are defensive fronts - like the 4-3 under - that can employ two penetrating 1 gap DTs.. so the 1 tech doesn't have to be a behemoth as he would have to be in a 2 gap 3-4.. we saw this plenty last season..

 

we definately won't be playing any traditional 2 gap 3-4 .. we aren't built for it.

like it or not, Rex will stay the course.. but he has to get better talent to play the LB and Safety spots

With rex you sure you want to say definitely?

I see the Bills draft bringing in a NT and LB that can start right away. Mario's departure will not be painful since he was not a factor this season.

Its painful. Plenty. He was one of the leading sackers this year too believe it or dont. Also in his 4 years with us he has 58 sacks. I understand he didnt play well this year... but who in the front 7 was a factor?