QuoteTheRaven83 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 McCoy, Williams, Jackson > McCoy, Williams, Dixon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 What I still don't like about it was the fact that, at the time, they decided to keep Bryce Brown over FJ just because he was younger. Brown was awful and should have been cut long before Jackson. With the perspective of hindsight, I agree with you. If Brown wasn't improving his ball security as they wanted him to do, he should have been cut when FredEx was. And the timing of cutting him, when it was clear that McCoy wasn't 100% recovered from his injury and was going to be on a snap count or at least limited, was very strange. The only thing I can think is that Brown felt a little untouchable and did something that constituted a final straw with Anthony Lynn. In which case I wish Lynn had run out of straws a bit sooner. Yeah, our STs stunk even with arguably one of the best gunners in the league so somehow I tend to doubt that Boobie was anything of a difference maker in that regard. The problem I have with much of the discussion is it's all done with the benefit of hindsight. Boobie was felt to be a strong contributor on a good ST unit last year. There was no reason, during the initial roster cutdown, to feel that ST wouldn't be good or Boobie a strong contributor this year. The ST coach gets a few chances to say "if this guy's on the bubble, give him a bump 'cuz I count on them ST" and presumably he did so with Boobie as with Marcus Easley and Ron Brooks. So...in hindsight, could FredEx have been a difference maker and helped the Bills? Yes. But does that mean, at the time of the cut, there weren't clear logical arguments in favor of it? No, you don't get to rewrite the situation at the time with the benefit of hindsight and predict that Karlos will be out on concussion protocol while Shady re-injures and Brown did whatever he did that got his a** slung out of town like a rotten potato so that the Bills are sweeping the streets to find running backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 With the perspective of hindsight, I agree with you. If Brown wasn't improving his ball security as they wanted him to do, he should have been cut when FredEx was. And the timing of cutting him, when it was clear that McCoy wasn't 100% recovered from his injury and was going to be on a snap count or at least limited, was very strange. The only thing I can think is that Brown felt a little untouchable and did something that constituted a final straw with Anthony Lynn. In which case I wish Lynn had run out of straws a bit sooner. The problem I have with much of the discussion is it's all done with the benefit of hindsight. Boobie was felt to be a strong contributor on a good ST unit last year. There was no reason, during the initial roster cutdown, to feel that ST wouldn't be good or Boobie a strong contributor this year. The ST coach gets a few chances to say "if this guy's on the bubble, give him a bump 'cuz I count on them ST" and presumably he did so with Boobie as with Marcus Easley and Ron Brooks. So...in hindsight, could FredEx have been a difference maker and helped the Bills? Yes. But does that mean, at the time of the cut, there weren't clear logical arguments in favor of it? No, you don't get to rewrite the situation at the time with the benefit of hindsight and predict that Karlos will be out on concussion protocol while Shady re-injures and Brown did whatever he did that got his a** slung out of town like a rotten potato so that the Bills are sweeping the streets to find running backs. Hindsight? You clearly don't remember the scenario that preceded the cut of Fred Jackson. McCoy was nursing a hamstring injury that the staff reportedly thought might end his season. Karlos was coming off of abdominal surgery just a couple weeks earlier. Even Bryce Brown was hurt most of the preseason. Fred was held out with a minor injury too........then promptly ripped off a long TD run to start the last preseason game.........a game he had to start because everyone else was too nicked up. With all the uncertainty wrt to having functioning RUNNING BACKS.........it made no sense to cut themselves short........and sure enough, Shady and Williams missed a lot of games early in the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I miss Freddy's leadership. Its what this team lacked the most this year. The team went no where when he was the leader on this team for the past several seasons. Leadership must come from the HC. Marrone was a good HC and had a good control of his team. Rex not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsmovinup Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Didn't care that Fred was released then. Care even less now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 The team went no where when he was the leader on this team for the past several seasons. Leadership must come from the HC. Marrone was a good HC and had a good control of his team. Rex not so much. The team didn't have a playoff caliber roster until this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I was never bitter over cutting Fred Jackson I was bitter over how it was done. I recall during the offseason that Fred had an offer from the Steelers to back up Leveon Bell but opted to stay in Buffalo because he wanted to finish here. Then oh well, thanks for that decade, it was nice knowing you, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 The same porous OL has has the team as the NFL's rushing leader. The same porous OL that has allowed for the deep passing game to succeed. Try again! We definitely ran the ball well this year- heres something to ponder; what would our rank be if we removed TT's rushing yards? 80 percent of his yards were all on him, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corp000085 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I was never bitter over cutting Fred Jackson I was bitter over how it was done. I recall during the offseason that Fred had an offer from the Steelers to back up Leveon Bell but opted to stay in Buffalo because he wanted to finish here. Then oh well, thanks for that decade, it was nice knowing you, +1 At the time, it was clear that the team was going in another direction. With the use of hindsight, my thoughts mirror many posted here. McCoy, Williams, Gillislee, Jackson >>> McCoy, Williams, Brown, Dixon, Gillislee. However, the leadership thing is overstated... It's not like FredEx would have prevented AW's injury, KW's injury, Hughes' penalties, stupid challenge/game management decisions... It's not like he stopped Mario Williams from installing his fridge or giving up on the team. He didn't stop Rex from making stupid proclamations. And finally, its not like FredEx's leadership and skill got him to the playoffs before. He was the leader on a crappy, mediocre, headless team when Ralph Wilson was struggling with health and was the leader on a team last year that played so well 9 games, but played equally as bad in 7 and missed the playoffs. Long story short, Whaley didn't earn any PR points, but he got the job done cutting ties with just another player from a crappy team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 (edited) How does competent run blocking equate to good pass blocking? And how many 300 yd passers did we have this year? Try again! Maybe you haven't been paying attention all season, but the success of Greg Roman's offensive system isn't predicated upon 300 yard passing games. It relies on the running game as its staple and is supplemented by deep shots in the passing game. Study up son and then get back. Edited January 2, 2016 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Hindsight? You clearly don't remember the scenario that preceded the cut of Fred Jackson. McCoy was nursing a hamstring injury that the staff reportedly thought might end his season. Karlos was coming off of abdominal surgery just a couple weeks earlier. Even Bryce Brown was hurt most of the preseason. Fred was held out with a minor injury too........then promptly ripped off a long TD run to start the last preseason game.........a game he had to start because everyone else was too nicked up. With all the uncertainty wrt to having functioning RUNNING BACKS.........it made no sense to cut themselves short........and sure enough, Shady and Williams missed a lot of games early in the season. I remember McCoy had a hamstring injury. I don't remember, nor can I find, any reports that the hamstring was thought possible to end his season or even to delay its start. Links please? I believe that to be hindsight. Jackson also had a hamstring injury, and most people would bet on the likelihood of a 33 yr old avoiding reinjury to be less than that of a younger player, TD run or not. Can we also remember that he seemed to be running in slow motion and was shoestring tackled from behind in a way he would have easily avoided 2 years ago (and this is a theme of his season in Seattle, just saw this in recent game). Everyone was coy about Karlos' malady, but it was not "abdominal surgery". Guessing is testicular torsion, which is excrutiatingly painful but does not involve cutting on abdominal muscles to relieve or prolonged recovery (the estimate at the time was 2 weeks and that was about right) and in fact he was back in 2 weeks and has not been bothered by whatever it was. I'll put it out there: I think you and others have your minds made up and are determined to fit the facts to your viewpoint. There were myriad injuries in the Bills preseason, including Goodwin's broken ribs and Harvin's hip. Every team has to look at the roster and make hard decisions about the number they will keep at each position given what their game plan calls for and using their player rankings and the best injury prognosis from the training staff. Then they cut. I do understand the love Fred Jackson had in Buffalo. I also understand that for years, the Bills have made roster decisions based on reasons other than cold-hearted moneyball analysis of player football value - PR value of a signing, fan attitude, and other marketing concerns, and that has to change for the team to be successful. I understand people hated the cut, I wasn't happy myself, but the logic behind it at the time (which is all one has when making decisions) is pretty clear. I understand that Seattle made good use of him, they are running a different offense with different personnel and had different choices about # of bodies they keep at different positions. Is Fredex >> Felton in hindsight, yes, but that clearly wasn't how Roman saw it on Turk Day. There are other roster decisions that look questionable in hindsight (with regard to WR, for example) but again, that's only in hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 We definitely ran the ball well this year- heres something to ponder; what would our rank be if we removed TT's rushing yards? 80 percent of his yards were all on him, IMO. Looks like we'd be about 9th. So still top-10, but not #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 McCoy, Williams, Jackson > McCoy, Williams, Dixon yes, an unwarranted move. Which brings up the question. How astute is Whaley in player evaluation if Dixon is kept and Fred EX is cut?Good news I hope Fred gets a couple rounds deep In the playoffs. Seattle has shown zero buyers remorse on getting Fred. Smart coaching made him a valuable 3rd down player. And surprise he can pick up a blitz. ya think TT could have used some help with the sieve on the right side of the OL? Dixon won't be a Bill next year(hopefully). So what did that cut gain in the end? Purging a couple of mil in cap space was Negligible. Imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Maybe you haven't been paying attention all season, but the success of Greg Roman's offensive system isn't predicated upon 300 yard passing games. It relies on the running game as its staple and is supplemented by deep shots in the passing game. Study up son and then get back. I think the fact that you're claiming the OL has been stellar in pass protection all year tells us everything we need to know about your level of study and attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemac2001 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Just root for Fred to get the super bowl ring Root for karlos for years We missed Fred on 3rd downs but would that have gotten us over the top no out defense let us down I'd take McCoy karlos and guilsle for next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 What I still don't like about it was the fact that, at the time, they decided to keep Bryce Brown over FJ just because he was younger. Brown was awful and should have been cut long before Jackson.Maybe it was the fact that only a year earlier, Whaley gifted the Eagles a 4th round pick for Brown, who likely would have been released anyway -- a relatively minor, but nonetheless embarrassing, blot on Whaley's CV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I remember McCoy had a hamstring injury. I don't remember, nor can I find, any reports that the hamstring was thought possible to end his season or even to delay its start. Links please? I believe that to be hindsight. It's been stated/discussed by CBS commentators that coaches feared McCoy might be lost for the season with his hamstring injury....... during recent telecasts.........based on the feedback from coaches during their broadcast preparation meetings. I can only assume that you haven't been watching the games. The rash of injuries at the RB position was a fairly noteworthy sports story at the time so calling it hindsight is as detached as Karlos left nut. Speaking of which........the exact whereabouts of Karlos surgery.......his abdomen or his balls......it's irrelevant to the discussion.......he had RECENTLY had a SURGICAL PROCEDURE that had sidelined him for several weeks. If it wasn't a concern........the ROOKIE would have been getting experience in the preseason. The Bills gambled that McCoy and Wiliams would be healthy.....and fairly soon both Karlos and McCoy were on the shelf. I don't consider myself a particularly big Fred Jackson fan.........he's a good player but he's had his share of problems with things like injuries and fumbles in recent years so he wasn't going to give you 200 carries if McCoy and Karlos were sidelined. But that wasn't what they needed from him.........they needed a steady, veteran third down back. They absolutely do not have that and it's part of the reason they were leading the NFL in 3 and outs. That's not hindsight.......Shady had to come off the field in short yardage in Philly and Karlos was a rookie for chrissake. But if you want hindsight.......Fred Jackson played every game this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I think the fact that you're claiming the OL has been stellar in pass protection all year tells us everything we need to know about your level of study and attention. Claiming they've been great in pass pro because they were great in run blocking is hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 anyone who loves Freddy should be happy for him in Seattle. He hasn't done much at all, but he finally gets to play in the tournament. They could go all the way and lose to NE* in the SB rematch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Past his prime Happy for him but not crying over spilled milk. Time to move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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