New Orleans To Remove Excremental Rebel Monuments

[Tiberius]

The one where he MENTIONS LEE, idiot. Liok back farther, just like your IQ is normal...

You are such a sh it head. If you would show any of this venom against the anti Semitic marchers instead of those calling out the marchers you might not look like such a Nazi yourself

[HappyDays]

Your view of history is so un-nuanced and revised by modern social mores that it's not even worth discussing this with you.

 

You world view is the reason we are now standing were we are, and may refight the civil war.

Which view would that be? The one that says people who flog slaves and rip apart families shouldn't deserve statues? If that view starts the next Civil War maybe you're blaming the wrong people.

[boyst]

Which view would that be? The one that says people who flog slaves and rip apart families shouldn't deserve statues? If that view starts the next Civil War maybe you're blaming the wrong people.

totally on board with this. !@#$ Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull. Losers.

 

Tecumseh was a B word too. Let's rename Tecumseh Michigan to something about a winner, like Sheridan or Sherman. Those were some great role models of winning.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Boyst62

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

http://www.dailywire.com/news/19783/watch-baltimores-confederate-monuments-vanish-james-barrett

So many happy faces. I feel so warm and fuzzy inside.

[Cugalabanza]

http://www.dailywire.com/news/19783/watch-baltimores-confederate-monuments-vanish-james-barrett

So many happy faces. I feel so warm and fuzzy inside.

I don't understand your criticism here. The sarcasm is pointing at the fact that some of the people are not smiling in the photograph? Please tell us how that's significant in any way.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Cugalabanza

[TakeYouToTasker]

Which view would that be? The one that says people who flog slaves and rip apart families shouldn't deserve statues? If that view starts the next Civil War maybe you're blaming the wrong people.

No, the view that our history needs to be sanitized, and that we should judge all men through the moral lens of 2017 neo-liberalism, and that anyone who disagrees is a bigot.

 

You world views dictates that nearly every actor in human history, save Americans north of the Mason-Dixon Line roughly 160 years ago through now, was an irreparably immoral and evil person.

 

It also dictates that the only thing that matters when viewing history, is if someone held slaves or not; and if they did, everything else about their lives is undone, no matter how great or how significant, because of the slavery. Your entire argument is nothing more than one massive Poisoning the Well logical fallacy.

 

Finally, because you view is so un-nuanced, and completely dictatorial you make absolutely zero room for individuals who hold different view points, and rather than live and let live, you set out to subjugate them to yours; turning a blind eye toward at best, or make way for at worst, actual fascism, racism, and militant communist agitators.

 

Yes, your world view is the problem.

[boyst]

http://www.dailywire.com/news/19783/watch-baltimores-confederate-monuments-vanish-james-barrett

So many happy faces. I feel so warm and fuzzy inside.

disgusting

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I don't understand your criticism here. The sarcasm is pointing at the fact that some of the people are not smiling in the photograph? Please tell us how that's significant in any way.

 

My point is that mob rule wins yet again. Politicians too cowardly to stand up to pitchforks and torches.

[row_33]

I always try to help the capsizing listing with people I talk to.

 

Slavery and treason are tough things to get over if they mean something visceral to a person, so it's hard to argue they don't have a point. The treason argument is an anthill to the Mt Everest of the slavery issue...

 

I can admire Stonewall Jackson with impunity mostly, he's that kind of major dude.

 

Lee is tougher to give a 5-second Tiberius-type 100% black and white verdict, but Lincoln basically pardoned people in Lee's camp, making Lincoln the best of all US political figures (and among the greatest mortals) to me. At the very least worth years of your life studying his life and thought, but that's just me.

Edited August 16, 2017 by row_33

[DC Tom]

Which view would that be? The one that says people who flog slaves and rip apart families shouldn't deserve statues? If that view starts the next Civil War maybe you're blaming the wrong people.

If you're not advocating tearing down the Washington and Jefferson Memorials, you are a massive hypocrite.

[Tiberius]

If you're not advocating tearing down the Washington and Jefferson Memorials, you are a massive hypocrite.

 

Nation builders vs traitors? No hypocrisy there

[TakeYouToTasker]

If you're not advocating tearing down the Washington and Jefferson Memorials, you are a massive hypocrite.

 

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/08/16/jackson-washington-park-protest-presidents-slave-owners/

 

 

 

I am feeling ambivalent that I would have to walk my child, attend a parade or enjoy a game of softball in a park that commemorates the memory of a slave owner,” he wrote. “Therefore, I call on the immediate removal of President George Washington and President Andrew Jackson names from the parks located on the southeast side of Chicago. They should not have the distinct honor of being held as heroes when they actively participated in the slave trade.

[DC Tom]

 

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/08/16/jackson-washington-park-protest-presidents-slave-owners/

 

 

So when do we demand that the Ellison Plantation in Stateburg, SC, be removed from the National Historic Register? Given that William Ellison was one of the largest antebellum slaveholders in South Carolina.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

So when do we demand that the Ellison Plantation in Stateburg, SC, be removed from the National Historic Register? Given that William Ellison was one of the largest antebellum slaveholders in South Carolina.

 

ASAP

 

Black Lives Matter!

[IDBillzFan]

You world view is the reason we are now standing were we are, and may refight the civil war.

 

That would be interesting. The people trying to erase history are the same people who want to eliminate guns.

 

It will be a very short civil war. When it's over, can we make those who surrender our slaves? I got some dishes that need washin'!

[Deranged Rhino]

We can do better than the slippery slope fallacy. There is no movement to erase the history of the Civil War. Where does this idea come from? The most left-wing people wouldn't want to do that because they would want America's awful racial history to be taught in full.

Where does that idea come from? Uhhhh... !@#$ing history.

 

And you're wrong if you think "most" left wing people want Americans racial history taught in full. You're out of touch with not only history, but the emotional temper tantrum being thrown by the left currently.

 

This is evidenced by the fact you've been deadly silent about the facts that have come to light about the "hack". It's been proven now there was no hack. Do you make a comment or admit you were wrong (for months)? Nope. You ignore it because you are curating modern history to your liking rather than dealing with the reality.

 

That's why this is dangerous. Because people who have no sense of history are trying to curate it to fit their modern sensibilities. That's not only how history gets lost, but how it gets repeated.

[bilzfancy]

Which view would that be? The one that says people who flog slaves and rip apart families shouldn't deserve statues? If that view starts the next Civil War maybe you're blaming the wrong people.

Jefferson raped, beat slaves too, tear that down, remove Mt Rushmore it was built on Indian Land that we stole from them before almost wiping them out, get rid if this too?

[ExiledInIllinois]

You are such a sh it head. If you would show any of this venom against the anti Semitic marchers instead of those calling out the marchers you might not look like such a Nazi yourself

He's probably German. Enabler, maybe has some German soldier in his family. ??

 

Not out of the question... My 90 year old neighbor was a German soldier... He was collecting a German war pension, small amount, till he passed away in 2012. I always wanted to ask him if he shot at Americans... That of course would be Trump tacky. Probably not, he was Serbian. Shot at The Russians and fought Tito up in the mountains after the war... Came here to work @ Ford... Somehow how got out of Yugoslavia in the 1950s.

 

My wife's friends are also German refugees. They (all the German born children, wife's friend's father, aunts, uncles) are Trump supporters, even though father, grandfather was shot by the Polish after war. Who knows if he was conscripted, they all say they were.

 

Amazingly, all these Germans after the war and nobody was a German soldier.

 

Only ones that get it are the ones that lived it. Like the mother, grandmother above. In her mid 90s she sees a lot of the evil of German/Nazi society in the way Trump acts. I know my Serbian neighbor passed away a few years early before this Trump demagogue, but he was liberal too. His wife, still kicking, dyed in wool American Republican because her father was one.

 

Anyway... I ramble. So I ramble.

 

These enablers are pukes.

 

BTW... I am German/Polish. I gotta dog in this hunt.

Jefferson raped, beat slaves too, tear that down, remove Mt Rushmore it was built on Indian Land that we stole from them before almost wiping them out, get rid if this too?

I guess you are against the Dakota pipeline then?

 

Hmmmm

[Deranged Rhino]

Which view would that be? The one that says people who flog slaves and rip apart families shouldn't deserve statues? If that view starts the next Civil War maybe you're blaming the wrong people.

 

Out of curiosity, what brand of cell phone are you rocking?

[DC Tom]

He's probably German. Enabler, maybe has some German soldier in his family. ??

 

Not out of the question... My 90 year old neighbor was a German soldier... He was collecting a German war pension, small amount, till he passed away in 2012. I always wanted to ask him if he shot at Americans... That of course would be Trump tacky. Probably not, he was Serbian. Shot at The Russians and fought Tito up in the mountains after the war... Came here to work @ Ford... Somehow how got out of Yugoslavia in the 1950s.

 

My wife's friends are also German refugees. They (all the German born children, wife's friend's father, aunts, uncles) are Trump supporters, even though father, grandfather was shot by the Polish after war. Who knows if he was conscripted, they all say they were.

 

Amazingly, all these Germans after the war and nobody was a German soldier.

 

Only ones that get it are the ones that lived it. Like the mother, grandmother above. In her mid 90s she sees a lot of the evil of German/Nazi society in the way Trump acts. I know my Serbian neighbor passed away a few years early before this Trump demagogue, but he was liberal too. His wife, still kicking, dyed in wool American Republican because her father was one.

 

Anyway... I ramble. So I ramble.

 

These enablers are pukes.

 

BTW... I am German/Polish. I gotta dog in this hunt.

 

I guess you are against the Dakota pipeline then?

 

Hmmmm

 

Great-grandfather came over from Bavaria - the center of the NSDAP's support. Of course, it was well before the NSDAP was even conceived of...but don't let the fictitious nature of the association stop you from calling me a Nazi.

 

I even have THREE books in my library with swastikas on the cover. One of them is Mein Kampf. I also have bin Laden's speeches, a Koran (16th century, from Herat), three biographies of Stonewall Jackson, and a dozen books on biological weapons. I'm a monster.

[HappyDays]

No, the view that our history needs to be sanitized, and that we should judge all men through the moral lens of 2017 neo-liberalism, and that anyone who disagrees is a bigot.

 

You world views dictates that nearly every actor in human history, save Americans north of the Mason-Dixon Line roughly 160 years ago through now, was an irreparably immoral and evil person.

 

It also dictates that the only thing that matters when viewing history, is if someone held slaves or not; and if they did, everything else about their lives is undone, no matter how great or how significant, because of the slavery. Your entire argument is nothing more than one massive Poisoning the Well logical fallacy.

 

Finally, because you view is so un-nuanced, and completely dictatorial you make absolutely zero room for individuals who hold different view points, and rather than live and let live, you set out to subjugate them to yours; turning a blind eye toward at best, or make way for at worst, actual fascism, racism, and militant communist agitators.

 

Yes, your world view is the problem.

Nope. All I said is that monstrous slave owners shouldn't have statues. If he at least symbolized something good, that would be a start. But Robert E Lee statues only symbolize slavery and treason. No thanks. Of course he wasn't "evil" and he had nuance, just like Hitler, if you're being perfectly rational. That doesn't mean statues of him aren't problematic and send the wrong message.

This is evidenced by the fact you've been deadly silent about the facts that have come to light about the "hack". It's been proven now there was no hack. Do you make a comment or admit you were wrong (for months)? Nope. You ignore it because you are curating modern history to your liking rather than dealing with the reality..

Haha I'm guessing you're referring to the Nation report? Within a week they will release an editorial retracting the story for dubious sourcing. Wait and see.

Jefferson raped, beat slaves too, tear that down, remove Mt Rushmore it was built on Indian Land that we stole from them before almost wiping them out, get rid if this too?

These are good arguments for taking down Jefferson statues. They are not arguments for keeping up Robert E Lee statues. If you feel so strongly about Jefferson you should start a petition. This is like when people say "alcohol is bad for you and therefore weed should be legal." That's not how logic works.

[Tiberius]

He's probably German. Enabler, maybe has some German soldier in his family. ??

Not out of the question... My 90 year old neighbor was a German soldier... He was collecting a German war pension, small amount, till he passed away in 2012. I always wanted to ask him if he shot at Americans... That of course would be Trump tacky. Probably not, he was Serbian. Shot at The Russians and fought Tito up in the mountains after the war... Came here to work @ Ford... Somehow how got out of Yugoslavia in the 1950s.

My wife's friends are also German refugees. They (all the German born children, wife's friend's father, aunts, uncles) are Trump supporters, even though father, grandfather was shot by the Polish after war. Who knows if he was conscripted, they all say they were.

Amazingly, all these Germans after the war and nobody was a German soldier.

Only ones that get it are the ones that lived it. Like the mother, grandmother above. In her mid 90s she sees a lot of the evil of German/Nazi society in the way Trump acts. I know my Serbian neighbor passed away a few years early before this Trump demagogue, but he was liberal too. His wife, still kicking, dyed in wool American Republican because her father was one.

Anyway... I ramble. So I ramble.

These enablers are pukes.

BTW... I am German/Polish. I gotta dog in this hunt.

 

I guess you are against the Dakota pipeline then?

Hmmmm

 

My grandfather on fathers side was German from Posen so maybe Polish too. My aunt did the family history on moms side and it went way back before the Revolution into Virginia but found we were probably German there, also. Hitler only got 37% of the vote and many Germans tried to stop that little Austrian filthbag. Germans have a very liberal tradition, also. The 48ers were very anti-slavery and supported our Union strongly.

 

Anyway! I only have 2 and a half hours to go before I can eat to make my first 24 fast. Been trying unsuccessfully before but it gets easier. Thanks!

[TakeYouToTasker]

Nope. All I said is that monstrous slave owners shouldn't have statues. If he at least symbolized something good, that would be a start. But Robert E Lee statues only symbolize slavery and treason. No thanks. Of course he wasn't "evil" and he had nuance, just like Hitler, if you're being perfectly rational. That doesn't mean statues of him aren't problematic and send the wrong message.

"If you're being perfectly rational, Robert E. Lee was like Hitler."

 

"Robert E. Lee statues symbolize nothing but slavery and treason."

 

These are not things that a serious person with any understanding of history says. Again, your world view is exactly the problem.

[Deranged Rhino]

Haha I'm guessing you're referring to the Nation report? Within a week they will release an editorial retracting the story for dubious sourcing. Wait and see.

 

 

You mean like the retraction the NYT printed saying their claim that all 17 intel agencies agreed? The one you also ignored? Right... Besides, Salon, the NY Post and others are running with the story. You've just proven my point. Facts don't matter to you unless you can comfortably fit them into your chosen paradigm. That's not how history works. That's not how reality works. And advocating curating history based on your sensibilities (which have been proven to be unprincipled) is how history gets forgotten and repeated.

 

You're doing the work for the bad guys. Keep it up.

 

And don't dodge the question, what brand cell phone do you use?

Edited August 16, 2017 by Deranged Rhino

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

Salon, the NY Post and others are running with the story. Try harder.

 

And don't dodge the question, what brand cell phone do you use?

You may also wish to ask him if he wears clothes.

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

Out of curiosity, what brand of cell phone are you rocking?

They probably own some Aetna insurance too.

[Deranged Rhino]

You may also wish to ask him if he wears clothes.

 

That comes next... he won't have the courage to answer either question.

[HappyDays]

 

Salon, the NY Post and others are running with the story. Try harder.

 

And don't dodge the question, what brand cell phone do you use?

And now it is coming out that the report is under review by the Nation for not meeting their standards. For example, it gave a download speed that would have been literally impossible at the time given in the report. Like I said, wait and see. This is Rod "Lawsuit" Wheeler all over again. You have a knack for finding the best wild goose chases in the media.

 

I don't answer meaningless questions.

[Deranged Rhino]

Here's the next statute to tear down...

 

 

Amirite?!?!?!

And now it is coming out that the report is under review by the Nation for not meeting their standards. For example, it gave a download speed that would have been literally impossible at the time given in the report. Like I said, wait and see. This is Rod "Lawsuit" Wheeler all over again. You have a knack for finding the best wild goose chases in the media.

I don't answer meaningless questions.

 

You're wrong. The download speed is the evidence. The speed cited in the metadata makes it IMPOSSIBLE to have been a hack.

 

You're real bad at this whole unbiased reading thing.

[HappyDays]

"If you're being perfectly rational, Robert E. Lee was like Hitler."

 

"Robert E. Lee statues symbolize nothing but slavery and treason."

 

These are not things that a serious person with any understanding of history says. Again, your world view is exactly the problem.

I didn't say Lee was exactly like Hitler. Try reading my post more carefully and see if you can spot the analogy.

[Deranged Rhino]

I don't answer meaningless questions.

 

 

 

That comes next... he won't have the courage to answer either question.

 

Like I predicted.

 

That's not a meaningless question. It has everything to do with this topic. What kind of phone do you use?

[HappyDays]

Here's the next statute to tear down...

 

 

Amirite?!?!?!

 

 

You're wrong. The download speed is the evidence. The speed cited in the metadata makes it IMPOSSIBLE to have been a hack.

 

You're real bad at this whole unbiased reading thing.

When they retract their story some time later this week or early next week I will be sure to post the retraction for you, in full.

[TakeYouToTasker]

I didn't say Lee was exactly like Hitler. Try reading my post more carefully and see if you can spot the analogy.

I don't think you know how sentence structure or articulating ideas work.

[Deranged Rhino]

When they retract their story some time later this week or early next week I will be sure to post the retraction for you, in full.

 

Why are you running from the simple and direct question? You've made it clear that anyone who had anything to do with slavery is so evil their statues must be torn down. Does that standard not apply to you? Are you not benefiting today from modern day slavery? Does the fact that you own an iphone built by slaves, or wear clothes made by child slaves, change how the world should view you?

When they retract their story some time later this week or early next week I will be sure to post the retraction for you, in full.

 

Ah. Okay. So you're an intellectual coward. Good to know.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Ah. Okay. So you're an intellectual coward. Good to know.

Of course he's an intellectual coward.

 

His logic is so much like a pretzel that he has mustard leaking from his ear.

[Deranged Rhino]

Of course he's an intellectual coward.

 

His logic is so much like a pretzel that he has mustard leaking from his ear.

 

He only believes what he's told to believe by other people. He outsources his own thinking which is a shame.

[meazza]

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Again I quote orwell:

 

"Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past."

 

Truer words have never been spoken.

[IDBillzFan]

Here's the next statute to tear down...

 

 

 

Damn. Harry Potter completely let himself go.

[Deranged Rhino]

Again I quote orwell:

 

"Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past."

 

Truer words have never been spoken.

 

Technology is important to consider in anyone's calculus on this matter.

 

We live in an age where it's easier than at any other point in human history to spread and disseminate information. But our reliance upon the digitial: e-books over hard copies, search engines at our fingertips rather than using our own brains to store information, has also placed us in an age where it would be easier than any other point in human history to alter or censor information.

 

Damn. Harry Potter completely let himself go.